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Philsan

Super Soccer: prototype lost forever?

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On Atarimania Mr. Bernstein wrote:

According to an ex-Atari UK employee, this game is ORIGINAL and was finished before the XE line got EOL'd (in other words, it's complete and got featured in an issue of New Atari User). It is not a HACK of Tynesoft's European Super Soccer but a completely different game.

 

post-12528-0-95936000-1317542066_thumb.jpg

The picture you see is not the box but a screen capture that was shown in a UK magazine. The game was supposed to be released in December 1989.

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"Finished"? Where's the penalty area? :)

 

If it plays anything like Tynesoft's offering, it'll be very slow with those large players.

 

What we need(ed) is a version of Sensible Soccer with the small players, which could be like a vertical scrolling version of Thorn EMI's "Soccer".

Edited by snicklin
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I'd love to see both of those games on the Atari 8 bit.

 

I reckon that an interpretation of Sensible Soccer would be technically possible. However, I think that the large playing areas in Cannon Fodder may rule that game out.

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The best 8-bit computers soccer was Emlyn Hughes International Soccer for C64 but I think it's impossible to port it to A8:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPHD3yKSZ_s

Here is CPC version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqQYdpC7Fds

 

Hi Philsan.

For that type of 'like Hughes' it's possible...

Exactly like that, if one of the Teams use a White Shirt and the other Team can use any shirt colour...

This is to use 4colours Bitmap where:

-> Backgr.- Green of the Grass

-> PF0- White

-> PF1- Pink of the skin colour

-> PF2- Black

 

P0,P1,P2,P3 four Players of the other Team...

Missiles 5th Player, like a yellow for the Ball.

 

In Bitmap more cycles available...

DLIs gives you the top Assistant and Adds.

If Players don't go into the 'Coca-Cola and other Adds'

See what they have done on that A8 Prototype... They just put there the 'Athtletism running Tartan Walking Ways'

 

Never played Tynesoft European super Soccer but it seems exactly the same way like this prototype because it seems it is using 'Emkay's Mode GR.7' probably because of the cycle need for more of those large guys sprites.

Don't know if in a GR.15 bitmap with 1scanline high pixels would be cycle possible and/or how many of those guys could be on screen at once.

Probably our coders here can say how many? Or the Players wouldn't need in 1pixel high GR.15 Mode be all that high.

The Playing Area would then be larger according to Players and that would sure be better than this Uggly Blocky guys...

 

 

I don't like A8 Tynesoft, nor it seems I would like that prototype... Even the C64 of this type are very bad...

See all sort of Football games on C64 and the Better are, indeed the Top view, where C64 can get the Player and the Ball in Hi-Resolution... Something that it's impossible on A8, impossible at 100% but something could be done ;) ... something I was trying one of these Nights but I give up, have to re-surrected it one day :P

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José, have you ever played C64 Emlyn Hughes Football?

 

Read how the control and the physics work:

THE REAL HEART AND SOUL of Emlyn Hughes International Soccer is the already-mentioned complexity of the control system that takes a fair amount of time to master properly. To illustrate why, take for example the running speed, which is linear. As you start your run, you accelerate until you reach the individual player's top speed. Turning around slows you down, unless of course you make an effort to keep your momentum by running a circle instead of simply heding straight to the opposite direction.

Passing and shooting function in a fairly similar manner. Instead of providing separate buttons for the two actions, the game handles them with the use of only one, and just like in real life a shot is simply a kick stronger than a pass. Consequently, the stronger (and more shot-like) you want the kick to be, the longer you press the button. However, you cannot kick harder than the player's current maximum available strength, which in turn depends on his running speed, current fitness level, as well as the ball's proximity.

Since there are no separate "pass" and "shoot" buttons, you also have to take care of the kick directions yourself. Depending on the settings, there are either 5, 3 or 1 kick directions. No one really ever chooses less than 5, of course, even if it may at first sound confusing that in order to kick a ground ball to your left, you need to press the button and turn your joystick 45 to 90 degrees counter-clockwise from the direction you are running to (e.g. "north-east" or "north" if you are running straight towards "east", "south" or "south-west" if you are heading "west"). Meanwhile, in case you want to kick a lobbing ball into the same direction, you have to press the fire button and press your joystick 135-180 degress counter-clockwise (e.g. between "north-west" and "west" if you are running towards east and want to kick the ball so that, from the players point of view, it flies towards left on the field, or to the general direction of "north-east").

These are just the basic controls. Backheels, headers and tackles are somewhat more complicated to pull off, but when you do, the feeling is that of immense pleasure. Especially so, if you score with one of your fancy moves. And, it must be stressed, after a bit of practice the controls become perfectly intuitive, and you will never need to think about them on the technical level again. Like walking, once you learn to move in Emlyn Hughes International Soccer, you will never forget how to do it. (And if you are like us, you will continue making those moves even while sleeping.)

 

This football seems similar to C64 International Soccer (BTW, a good football, nothing to do with Tynesoft Football), but it's completely different!

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Some footballer graphics here

Excellent work Mark!

Considered A8 hardware, I think a vertical scrolling game like Sensible Soccer would be possible (as Steve already wrote in post #2).

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Can we be sure that the Atari footy game and the tynesoft jobbie were not the same, having played the tynesoft one they did look strikingly similar

Edited by carmel_andrews

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I personally think the 2 games are one and the same, with some minor cosmetic changes i.e. on the advertising boards .

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I personally think the 2 games are one and the same, with some minor cosmetic changes i.e. on the advertising boards .

According to the ex-Atari employee they are different games.

 

Crowd, pitch size, goals, score line are different.

Tynesoft European Super Soccer has penalty areas! :-D

post-12528-0-80374800-1317664081_thumb.jpg post-12528-0-98363500-1317664079_thumb.png

 

C64 International Soccer and Emlyn Hughes Football graphically are similar but completely different games.

 

But Super Soccer could be a simple enhancement of European Super Soccer.

Unfortunately we'll never know...

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Yes, I've seen the differences and , for my sins, played the Tynesoft game but I'm still not 100% convinced there is no relation between the 2. Might be wrong, and if there is a different game out there waiting to be found and it was a mile better than the Tynesoft game (which should be easy) then I'd be just as pleased as everyone else.

 

It is a sad state of affairs really when Thorn EMI's Soccer remains one of the better football games for the 8-bit.

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post-6517-0-73819100-1317684403_thumb.gif

This is Wratchild's but in a 2:2 ratio probably would look better.

Not the goalkeepers, because they could be soft sprites (in reality the Goalkeepers have different clothes colours), but for the others, I was wondering if using the same way, Bitmap Mode GR.15 and because the 3colours of the Players can be done in Multicolour PMs. (each Player not larger than 10pixels) if it could be done in similar way as Crownland, Contra & SuperMario Engine or Ripper space shoot?

 

More than two Players by line would get Flicker but not all higher just in the scanlines they are repeated...

Would it be lots of flickering? Coding/Multiplex PMs. possible?

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ_i0spcgBM

 

Hi-Resolution apart, if you watch this one, Microprose Soccer there's not more than two guys at the same time on the same line... and like this the guys could be Multicolour Players.

On C64 it also seems that there is sometimes Flicker. C64 is using two sprites in each of the guys or in the Ball:

-> Underlay sprite in Multicolour 2:1 ratio 3colours

-> Overlay Hi-resolution sprite, Black

 

This way, on A8, the 4colours of GR.15 Bitmap Mode could be:

-> Backgr.- Green1

-> PF0- Black

-> PF1- White

-> PF2- Green2

 

This would turn those different shades/dither/ of the Grass and possible on an A8 version...

Edited by José Pereira

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I discouver a Football game Top-view from C64 but Horizontal scroller that have Players sprites in the same way as the ones from Wratchild and they seem to fit in 8/10pixels A8 PMs's size.

It was done by Dommark and I get just a simple/direct port of it's Tittle screen:

post-6517-0-88430800-1317770779_thumb.png

 

And then using the Microprose soccer Top viev but I'll think Vertically would be better, DLIs. on the Posts and Multiplexing sprites exactly like in Crownland or Ripper space shoot'em'Up this way:

 

post-6517-0-73819100-1317684403_thumb.gif

This is Wratchild's but in a 2:2 ratio probably would look better.

Not the goalkeepers, because they could be soft sprites (in reality the Goalkeepers have different clothes colours), but for the others, I was wondering if using the same way, Bitmap Mode GR.15 and because the 3colours of the Players can be done in Multicolour PMs. (each Player not larger than 10pixels) if it could be done in similar way as Crownland, Contra & SuperMario Engine or Ripper space shoot?

 

More than two Players by line would get Flicker but not all higher just in the scanlines they are repeated...

Would it be lots of flickering? Coding/Multiplex PMs. possible?

 

We would achieve something like this:

post-6517-0-23655600-1317771052_thumb.png

(Bottom Black Area for Hi-Resolution Scores)

 

 

:?

Comments? Possibilities? Problems?

...?

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And forget to say, that this way we could have any countries/clubs, build champinionship Tables/Championships because it would be possible to define the real clothe colour.

There would be some flicker but also more cycles because all the guys are Hardware sprites, only the Ball are a soft sprite (White and Black)

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And the other problem... pretty much nobody in N America, Australia and much of Asia cares for Soccer. So reduced demand and reduced interest for anyone to do it.

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José,

graphically speaking another C64 soccer to be ported could be Graeme Souness International Soccer:

post-12528-0-41771300-1317840494_thumb.gif

More pictures - Disk image

But gameplay should be like Sensible Soccer.

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