OldAtarian Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) Simple, VIC-20, C64 and ST are the same "family" of computers with the same or at least some of the same engineers behind them. The same is true for the Atari 2600, 800 and the Amiga. I'm a fanboy of the designers and engineers, NOT the company. I tried to like the ST line, owned them for a few years recently, but I always felt like I was using a Commodore machine instead of an Atari, and vice-versa with the Amiga. But I sure would love to own a Falcon...and I love my Jaguar. PET yes, (powerful professional side with DMA hard disks, PC/Mac killing SLM804+ST solution, good OS environment and user friendly business software) VIC20 maybe (VIC chip isn't cutting edge, but the VIC20 was only designed to 'distract' the Japanese from the work on the C64 as a sacrificial lamb, which is what the plan was all along from Tramiel) But the ST and C64 have nothing in common, the C64 may not be a Jay Miner way of doing things but it was still cutting edge at the time with sprites, SID sound and even the 8+4bit 12bit DMA architecture of VIC-II and 6510 on the system bus. And all components were Commodore proprietary ones not found in other machines anywhere right down to the 6510. C64 IS VIC-II and SID and those designers had nothing to do with Jack at Atari. Bob (SID) left to start Ensoniq for a start before Jack left Commodore. Without VIC-II or SID it's like trying to make an A8 with Amstrad CPC parts and no Pokey/GTIA/Antic etc. That's the soul of the machine. The ST was more like the 16bit version of the Colour Super PET. Lots of RAM, some very sophisticated software for business AND very high performance peripherals and interfaces (DMA/MIDI etc), and enough power to play some games if you wanted it to but no dedicated hardware all CPU driven by default. I do agree though that had the ST been badged a Commodore AND marketed to the old Commodore PET purchasers from half a century ago it would have sold a lot more in 1985/86. Business clients still attributed the name Atari to games machines in 1985 which was an uphill struggle for Jack that he never overcame in the business world I think. Shame as for DTP and music studio work as well as general office applications the ST should have cleaned up. What did the Japanese have to do with the VIC-20 or the C-64? The VIC-20 was originally conceived as a game console to compete with the 2600 but was changed to a home computer because it was thought that a cheap computer might appeal to parents more than a games machine. The Japanese had nothing to do with it. The reason why the VIC shipped with so little memory was because Commodore had a glut of 1k chips on their hands that they had no way of disposing of without taking a huge loss on them so they ended up in the VIC-20. The only COMPUTER system I can think of coming out of Japan in the 80's that might have been any sort of competition for the C64 was the MSX and those never sold well in N. America, only Asia, continental Europe and a few countries in S. America and had about the same chance of actually outselling the C64 with it's aggressive pricing as any of the others, which is to say, practically none. Of course, if you're referring to the NES, that would have no bearing on C64 sales, either, because all it could do was games. It wasn't a computer. Edited November 19, 2011 by OldAtarian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blues76 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 After the 8 bit computer I went to PC and later MAC. Therefore , I never had experience with ST machine. I have some ST machines now, but I just like A8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 (edited) I didn't know the story behind but now it makes sense... True A8, true A8 lovers like me that are still here and batttle for Aer in Wars against C64 guyss... Now I know... If you ask me I can't say anything just because, at least here it was so quickly... There wasn't C64, just some two or three guys on a 100 or 200 schaool students, but there wasn't also A8, all were ZX Spectrum and more here, Timex 2048/2068 pals. It was so quickly because there was a distribution, an Atari distribution here and ST 'rocks' the charts.... But that Atari St was so quickly... I have my scholl mates wich their parents have money and on that time they all bought an ST. I went to their houses once but not many time, not many days, not many weeks later when I went there they now have an Amiga... Topics tittle from people that had one or for people that had the two, but for me that I am and was outside and never had any of the two I now understand what I would feel, what I would strike back then if I can strike, if I can battle, if I had Web... Nolan sold... Warner didn't understand the Treasure they had in their hands... Edited November 20, 2011 by José Pereira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegis Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I started off with an Atari VCS and loved that machine. My family wasn't very well off so when it came time to get a computer it was the ZX Spectrum - I dabbled with programming in BASIC but mostly it was used for playing games (I still love playing some of the old Ultimate and Vortex games). One friend of mine had a Commodore 64 and I have to admit, I was envious of the colour graphics (but not the resolution - the Spectrum was superior for that) and the sound. But the machine that impressed me the most was another friend's Atari 800 - his father used to travel to the US a lot and he'd always bring back the latest games - I remember playing Rescue on Fractalus! and Koronis Rift and being stunned by the quality of the graphics back then. A year or so later I got a 2nd hand C64 and played those early Lucasfilm game on that - they were pale imitations in comparison. I've always been fond of the Atari computers because of that early work by Lucasfilm (and games like Bill Williams' fantastic 'Necromancer'). It's a shame the success of the C64 overshadowed the Ataris and that later Lucasfilm games like Labyrinth, Maniac Mansion and Zak McKracken never made it to the format - I'm sure Atari versions would have been far superior. As for ST vs Amiga, it was Deluxe Paint and Defender of the Crown that sold me - the ST had no chance. I did have an ST for a short while (I was lent it to do some game graphics on) I'm sorry to say that after using the Amiga I had nothing good to say about the ST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 As for ST vs Amiga, it was Deluxe Paint and Defender of the Crown that sold me - the ST had no chance. I did have an ST for a short while (I was lent it to do some game graphics on) I'm sorry to say that after using the Amiga I had nothing good to say about the ST Makes sense - it was the successor to the A8 chipset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landondyer Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Yeah, the ST happened because of the technology vacuum at Atari when Jack took over. No, Jack bought Atari /specifically/ to do the ST. (His people -- John Feagans, Shiraz Shivji, etc., were working on the system in hotel rooms, before the Atari deal was finalized). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Yeah, the ST happened because of the technology vacuum at Atari when Jack took over. No, Jack bought Atari /specifically/ to do the ST. (His people -- John Feagans, Shiraz Shivji, etc., were working on the system in hotel rooms, before the Atari deal was finalized). Hey Landon, That's not exactly what I meant. I meant Atari found themselves in a bad situation partially because they coasted on old tech for for so long. They didn't have any products that helped them weather the storm and so Jack and the ST happened. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svenski Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Curses Bryan, my 800XL was cutting edge then and is cutting edge now . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I think I'd prefer the term "timeless" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DarkLord Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Timeless...good description...its the way I feel about *all* my Atari computers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Oberhäuser Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Got an Atari XL because it was cheap. Loved and still love it. Got an Atari 520 ST when it was brand new. Loved and still love it. Went on with a PC when Wing Commander came out. Had to pay 3 times more for my PC set-up (286-16 + Soundblaster) and all I got was a C: with a blinking cursor. What a shock it was 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Timeless...good description...its the way I feel about *all* my Atari computers... Fortunately lots of recent upgrades have a built-in RTC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DarkLord Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Fortunately lots of recent upgrades have a built-in RTC. Yeah, which is a good thing overall, but there's just something cool about booting up a beloved retro computer and having it display the time and date it was manufactured... Cool and kinda sad at the same time...like finding a diary of a close friend who mysteriously disappeared, and reading it...and its dated to just before they disappeared and it starts out something like, "if anyone reads these words..."... Oh well, guess I'm waxing nostalgic again - time for bed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 ...but there's just something cool about booting up a beloved retro computer and having it display the time and date it was manufactured... I used SpartaDOS X from 1989 to 2001 and after twelve years I was pretty sick of typing the date and time every time I turned the machine on. Cool and kinda sad at the same time...like finding a diary of a close friend who mysteriously disappeared, and reading it...and its dated to just before they disappeared and it starts out something like, "if anyone reads these words..."... Sounds like my Résumé. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griz Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Atari VCS -> Vic 20 -> Atari A8 -> ST -> Amiga I loved 'em all. I remember trading a pellet gun for an Intellivision. Loved Cloudy Mountain (listening for Dragons) and Sea Battle. Did this hobby make any of you experienced traders at a young age like it did me? I was trading stuff all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Fortunately lots of recent upgrades have a built-in RTC. Yeah, which is a good thing overall, but there's just something cool about booting up a beloved retro computer and having it display the time and date it was manufactured... Ha ha. Reminds me of when AA user save2600 sells an Amiga 500 or 512K upgrade board (which originally included battery which could leak) and the battery has been removed. He says in his Ebay ads, something like "You can mod to add battery holder if you think your Amiga cares what time it is." I don't really care what the time/date stamp is on the old computer files. I agree with Darklord, it's kind of nice to see the old dates. When Alzheimers eventually sets in, I'll be believing it, happily! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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