I think I know why so few Atarians like the A8 AND ST equally.

[UNIXcoffee928]

Amiga Workbench 1.2 came out quickly, and 1.3 was the standard for a long time, until 2.0. Very few people used a pre-1.2 Workbench (the only ones with real bugs). There was nothing buggy or slow about AmigaDOS or Workbench, unless you mean the occasional system crash (Guru Meditation Error), or loading icon filesto a window from a floppy disk. Amigas with hard disks are fast & responsive.

[+DarkLord]

Hence the wording in my post, "I didn't like the original OS though - too slow and buggy."

 

I never had a hard drive with the A1000 I had, nor the later OS releases. Kinda wish I still

had it though. As I said, the only Amiga I really liked...if I still had it, I would definitely try

to upgrade it. Who knows, somewhere down the road, if I can get some more free space,

I might try to acquire another one and play with it.

 

Cya.

[Gunstar]

It's been said before by some...the bottom line is we are all of us in this today for Nostalgia, and you're going to prefer and be more nostalgic to the machine you had as a kid, regardless if Atari, Apple or Commodore and others. And in my personal nostalgia, I have the Atari machines I had back then, but I also like the ST, Amiga and C64 for nostalgic reasons of I didn't have them back then, so I want them now. And in my hobby, I like the C64, Amiga, A8 and ST, and I also like the TI99/4A. I even like the Sinclair ZX81 becuase it was my first ever computer, and the Spectrum and QL interest me becuase they would have been the machines I owned after the ZX81 had it not been for the fact that Timex stopped selling them in the U.S., so my next choice in a computer I could also afford on my own with my paper route was the Atari 130XE. I actually begged my father to buy me an Apple IIC (becuase it was all I knew, from school, except for the lowely ZX81 I had at home) which he refused to do, so I got the 130XE on my own. I will forever thank my father for not buying me the Apple, becuase the Atari blew it away. The Apple line is the ONLY line of 80's computers that I feel exactly 0 nostalgia for today. Anything else interests me from memories of old, or dreams of old. I became an Atari fan and am glad I did, but if they had been as expesive as the Apples, I never would have owned one. I chose the 130XE over the C64 at the time only becuase it had twice the memory for about the same price.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Gunstar

[svenski]

The poor ST. Admittedly when I first saw one running alongside an Amiga 500+ it put me right off, but these days I appreciate it for what it is. There is a ton of great games out there for it and (apart from the floppy drives) the STs seem pretty reliable to me.

 

As an 8-bit owner at the time I thought Atari under Tramiel was evil, but looking back you have to recognize that Atari as it was had been doomed. The ST, which did sell very well in the UK even when it first came out, was the vehicle that not only kept the Atari brand alive but helped bring us nice things such as the Lynx and the Jaguar. Commodore, despite the Amiga, went bust before Atari faded into obscurity.

 

Up until a year or so ago my only experience of the ST had been using a Mega ST in a professional environment running Calamus for DTP with Atari's kick-ass laser printer. That thing was amazing. For those of us who never had an ST day in day out it is easy to feel that it doesn't hold the same memories or just didn't give the same experience as an A8 but if we had been using one regularly we'd probably be thinking something different.

 

I used to sell the Archimedes, and I hated it , only used to sell them to teachers and the odd poor kid who's parents refused to buy him anything else. People used to come in and moan when they'd bought one about the lack of games for it. As a computer though, and despite my lack of enthusiasm for it at the time, the Archimedes is a beast.

 

Anyway, next question. Was the US proclamation of Independence illegal ? Answers on a postcard please.

[high voltage]

I think the invasion of America was illegal for starters.

[+wood_jl]

Ha! Lively thread!

 

I think I should clarify, respective of my previous rant. The A8 is still my favorite. IT WAS MY FIRST! You never forget your first, do you? (no matter what it is; let's have some sordid stories here, about your other "firsts?")

 

I don't know how one could totally prefer A8 graphics to ST graphics. 160 x 192 in 4/256 colors is better than 320 x 200 x 16/512? Obviously, the ST programmers had to work with software sprites, and they did, and they could be MORE THAN ONE COLOR like on the A8. So, I'm not buying that ST graphics weren't impressive in 1985, when - at that point - everyone had matured on 160 x 192 (or 160 x 200 on C64) with very few colors. Yeah, 320 x 200 x 32 was killer on the Amiga, but 320 x 200 x 16 was still pretty impressive, in 1985.

 

Mostly, what I object to are the complaints that the ST sucked, because it didn't. I see claims like "soulless" to describe it, but if you've made these claims (have to scroll up the thread to see who did) - would you care to elaborate? If you're going to complain, you should be specific in your claim, just as when I defend, I *think* I have been fairly specific in my defense, but I make no claims to expertise. I'd still like to see some clarification to the claims that the machine (ST) was "soulless." As far as I can tell, none of the machines are living beings, so they're quite all soulless. Please clarify, as I don't get the complaint.

 

 

As well, let's draw the distinction that the *EARLY* ST machines were the real stars, completely shattering the old price/performance barrier. Remember the March, 1986 BYTE magazine cover?

 

 

I'm not saying you should have bought a 1040ST; I'm just saying don't diss on it so much. It wasn't there - heralded as a price/performance breakthrough - because it was a piece of shit.

 

As I said before, the later Atari computer offerings brought a much less-attractive price/performance ratio to the table. It would be silly to pretend that they didn't. That's probably why I followed the other sheep, and about the time of the 1st "Persian Gulf War" I was using a 286/16/VGA build-it-yourself clone, and by the time the Falcon came out I was already at 486DX2/66Mhz with 1024x768x256. But none of this diminishes the fact that the original 520ST/1040ST were price/performance ass-kickers, and they TOTALLY trounced the overpriced Macs and PCs of 1985/1986 at about 1/3 of the price, and the Amiga - while beautiful - was a considerably more expensive machine, at least for the first couple of years.

 

I'm not sure what you "experts" think that Atari should have done in 1985/1986 (other than the 520/1040ST) but I'd be interested in hearing your suggestions. But PLEASE, keep in mind the time and money constraints they were under, and minimize fantasy. I think you'll have a tough time besting what they did, with what they had. And please, don't suggest another Atari 8-bit computers. Even the most ardent 8-bit computer enthusiast (I'm not excluding myself from such a description) would be FORCED to admit that by 1985, in the U.S., 8-bit computers were DEAD. Atari 8-bit computers were especially dead (Commodore 8-bit computers survived a bit longer) so a new Atari 8-bit computer (instead of the ST) would have meant a quick death for Atari. If that's incorrect, please state your reasoning.

[UNIXcoffee928]

...

Anyway, next question. Was the US proclamation of Independence illegal ? Answers on a postcard please.

 

[Christos]

Pretty interesting thread. My affection is towards the ST (or more precisely falcon) although i started from the a8 as well. I would say that the 130xe that was my first computer was used a lot more as a games machine than anything else. I was too young when I got it and though i did tinker a lot with type ins (and even made some programs of my own design) it was used more as a games console than a computer. Add to that the fact that the educational system here didn't promote using of computers and the xe is now very fond memories and I don't feel like doing anything productive on it. The falcon was the first computer I got that gave me power. From playing games, to using it to write stuff for the university, to learn how to program a bit and even run some simulations for my master's thesis. I only got a pc around 2000-2001 and that was because I needed to write my graduate thesis in a Microsoft compatible format. And the falcon is an ST. For me, after getting to use an ST it felt exactly the same.

Having said that, I'd really like some space to setup the 130xe as well

[oky2000]

At the time I never understood how Atari or Commodore could tank, it's sad the names are now just licensed labels.

 

In 93 I bought a £1200 486 33mhz PC and guess what?

 

My Amiga 1200 @£349 had higher resolution AND colour depth (1280x576x256 or 24bit colour VS 1024x768 256 colours via ISA)

£199 Jaguar would play Doom as well as a £1500 486 66mhz.

 

 

 

Also going from either A8 to ST or 64 to Amiga it felt different. 90% of Amiga game music has little character as everyone used the same instrument samples. e.g. Panther is my favourite SID tune of all time. Mastertronics Sidewinder had an Amiga module of the same tune when loading but just sounds like cheap synth rock 80s crap. David Whittaker did both versions. I can see people feeling the same going from Pokey to YM2149.

 

I think the 16bits are great but it was the beginning of the end of one man 8bit genius games coding, you just needed different people for everything to give the best sound and graphics IMO.

[1NG]

Great discussion here! And so many people bringing so many life in the old machines.

I had the "typewriter" ATARI 800 with 48k as first machine and never sold it. I never use it and it is not my favorite.

Without a floppy and the basic instruction book I learned progamming. In that time there were no german books available and the english ones where about other computers.

This was adventure! I wrote the programs on paper and tipped them in next day. Later on I got a 810 floppy and a "Atari Dateikasten" to put in adresses.

I like the 800XL and the games for it. I spent a lot of time of my life playing them, so I remember a lot. If I think on how the brain works: My brain has saved all the important stuff of the day - and it was always atari-related :-)

In 1985 I bought a 520ST+ with extra floppy, metacomco assembler and thomson RGB monitor.

So I missed a lot of good stuff on the A8 that came out late, maybe the best stuff.

On the ST the basic was not very good. Without roms in the ST and after loading basic i had only a few (37?) k free ram from 1MB. I was shocked!

But the ST had 16 colors and lot of programming was about finding out how to deal with them. The 68000 assembly is absolutely great! I love the processor!

I bought my ST too early and on top I should have bought an amiga.

But the ST-times where good times. I learned how to code demos. And then (while studying) I got a job of programming 6809 Code on a PC with 20DM/h. So I boaught a 386DX with 25 Mhz and was about to buy a mercedes or jag - but bought a 486!. I never felt I had that much money again!

The A8 is bringing my life in computers

The ST is doing assembler

the PC is only feeding my kids :-)

 

Two years ago I recoded a basic game "the sheriffs job" from about 1985 in 1 day as a network game with server and clients. It had better graphics and digitized sound. So it was better but not the fun it was in 1985. Every good game today is a big project. Handy games are going the same way: Handys are getting faster and the games are getting complexer.

 

I always liked the competition on A8 and ST (and the demos on PC).

If I have to choose the smallest hardware to do a game I would never choose an amiga or ST. That is to easy! A8 or 2600 is a challange. Or doing it on a even smaller hardware.

So I would always choose an A8 with 128k. That is a good base for doing all things.

 

I thought of building my dream machine for that as an Atari 800XL with a 68000 processor, 8Bit digitized sound and 128 4color 16x16 hardware sprites. But is that really the solution? With more power, ram, colors etc the platform is better but the a8 is perfect for me in doing things with minimal hardware. And that is why it is interesting for me!

 

Every platform has it´s gold! Even the PC with Doom, wich was the beginning of digging the 16Bit 2D computers.

 

And if a hardware is capable of doing a lot then you can´t do programming for that because every aspect needs to be pefect and that costs to much time and talent to do it alone. BTW: I read about "demon attack" and them having an artist instead of doing graphics by a programmer was the major advantage.

 

A8 is favorite for me. But there is somthing more that concerns me: I would not do any of the old stuff if if there was no internet. Every quirk/obsession (deutsch: Macke) is OK if you find some people on the internet. So if I am carrying wellies all day it is OK too :-)

 

I would be fine with a new A8 with HDMI-outbut in a small laptop. (Even if it is a PC with Altirra but an original keyboard-layout and connectors of course) But I know that a lot of people are not OK with that. Original Hardware is original hardware and I can unterstand that.

 

I am very happy that the good old times are still going on. And more: All people are doing without looking for money - So it is all about fun!

[Shawn Jefferson]

I think he did the best he could with the resources he had left after purchasing debt-ridden Warner Atari.

 

You have to give Tramiel credit for this, and it's no mean feat. He took an Atari that was deep in debt and practically bankrupt and turned the company around, and in fact got back into the black in fairly short order. As a business-man, you have to give him some respect.

[Gunstar]

Anyway, next question. Was the US proclamation of Independence illegal ? Answers on a postcard please.

 

Read 'Common Sense' by Thomas Payne. All Americans, Brits and freedom lovers of the world should read it, it's a very short book and is exactly what the title says. The argument for Independence, Truth, Justice and the American way.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Gunstar

[potatohead]

Excellent reference: Thomas Paine.

 

He's my favorite from that time period. Reading all his works is recommended. His books have never been out of print, BTW. You can read the better ones here:

 

http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/p/paine/thomas/index.html

 

My kids were not taught Paine, but I was in school. Paine was removed from public education, only to be returned at the request of Thomas Edison.

 

Good stuff. He will make you think.

[Gunstar]

Excellent reference: Thomas Paine.

 

He's my favorite from that time period. Reading all his works is recommended. His books have never been out of print, BTW. You can read the better ones here:

 

http://ebooks.adelai...omas/index.html

 

My kids were not taught Paine, but I was in school. Paine was removed from public education, only to be returned at the request of Thomas Edison.

 

Good stuff. He will make you think.

 

My memory on this is vague, but I think once or more, during my schooling, when this period in history was being taught, or discussions on Independence that Thomas Paine and Common Sense were at least referenced, and possibly were offered as extra credit reading. I myself, think the first time I read it was just under a year ago. My father died and while at his house, I read a copy of it from his library. It particularly interested me considering the direction, or lack thereof the U.S. is in right now, and all the questions about what is the right direction these days. He puts it all back into perspective, and 'Common Sense' has become a very relevent writing again. Goes to show how much history can repeat itself and that we must have the truth in history to learn from it.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Gunstar

[Welsh Wizard]

re ST drives, I found mine were failing even when I was using the system daily, as for the A8 1050 they have been abused left in all sorts of storage areas, travelled to three different continents been abused by shippers, and they still seem to function well, I did love my first ST, but it really needed a internal hard drive to take away the need for the 3 1/2 " drive, the original single sided drive which had a belt kept on plodding away for years, it was only the double sided ones that caused problems, and if the single sided had a new belt I would expect it to still work, but when I obtained a double sided drive all software went onto double sided disks so with them being the problem, I was left only with games which was not why I bought the ST, in fact my A8's were pushed into storage for a 3 years, till ST disk problems started, then they were brought out of storage and reused till the PC OEM company I was with took over now I am retired they are once again A8's being brought back out of storage ( last 9 years in an Attic and still working)

Edited October 24, 2011 by Welsh Wizard

[Retro Rogue]

Jack gave us the 130XE so I suppose we can at least be thankful for that, although it likely would have arrived regardless due to natural evolution.

 

The other consideration re ST is that for a time Jack was banking on having his hands on the Amiga chipset. So there's every chance that Atari was working on the other stuff like DMA and GLUe, then suddenly had to expand on what they had at the last moment.

 

No he was not. The Amiga chipset was never planned for use in the ST, the lawsuit was purely a counter-lawsuit strategy. The ST hardware was already planned out and ready to go in to wire wrap when they bought Atari Consumer. It was delayed a month because of Commodore's suit against Shiraz and two other engineers, putting injunctions on them twice in July for doing any computer work for Jack. The wire wrapping started immediately in August and was done by the beginning of September.

 

 

It's entirely feasible that if he'd known 100% from the word go that he wasn't getting his hands on the Amiga chipset that the ST they initially released would have been better, probably being closer to the STe at least from the bare hardware (graphics especially) point of view.

 

Again, none of that was ever a factor - that's more based on the missinformation that seems to be out there from the period. They didn't even know there was a project in place at Atari Inc. until Leonard discovered the cancelled check at the end of July and they did some digging.

[Bloodcat]

This is an interesting topic. And one I personally have no biases towards.

 

I grew up with Commodore for computers. For my family's income and the time frame it was the only really clear choice. (Christmas 87 when I got the C64.)

Here in New England nobody owned Atari computers. Or Apples. It was 80% C64 for home users. Cheap and powerful overall.

PCs were still stupidly expensive and gameswise inferior to a 64 (CGA anyone? Analog joysticks in a still digital stick gameplay era?), and Apple 2s were just ridiculously expensive school machines.

(Apple is still ridiculously expensive for what you get. Nothing has changed outside of OSX being pretty awesome till they removed Rosetta. Hardware on the other hand not so much.)

 

I knew ONE person who claimed to own an ST. And that was just a claim. Nobody at all with 8bits. A few people had cheapo/garage sale discovery Adams, Aquariuses, CoCos, Vic20s, and TI/99s, but

the only computer most people had and stores actually supported was the 64.

 

Now that we have my history out of the way what do I think?

 

I just got my first Atari computer like 2 weeks ago. I kind of like it. Its cute and fun. With lots of cartridge games I don't have to much worry about disks (RIP most of my Amiga 3.5s and about a third of my DOS 3.5s) dying just being in a box

like I would buying a C64 now. And its a machine I didn't have experience with so its fun to experience something I never did for a fair price. And as a collector places like Myatari and Best Electronics have gobs of games MISB so I can

be happy in my collectingness. (One reason I have no real passion or effort collecting NES/SNES even though there were some awesome games. Boxes and manuals barely exist.) Plus it was primarily an NTSC system for the older

stuff so no hassles there.

 

(Not disrespecting some of the AMAZING things the Polish folks are doing with the machines these days.)

 

I am enjoying it to the point I want an ST too just to play more advanced games as at heart I am an RPG and turn based strategy guy. Ever since Ultima 1 was purchased in early 88.

 

From my standpoint both systems are like the "third wheel" computer of their day. The 8 bits were in third after the C64 and Apple 2, though if I had to rank them in quality it would be C64 then A8 then A2.

 

The ST was in third in the 68000 wars but again, it should have been second.

 

Being a somewhat niche system is no bad thing. I love the Turbografx 16 which was a VERY distant 3rd in the 16 bit console wars. I adore the Sega Saturn which was the same. Anyone tries to take my Neo Geo Pocket Color from me is going to have problems.

 

In some cases not being the king is more FUN.

 

Just look at modern retro discussion online. In the US its mostly worshipping Nintendo outside of the 40something set which can't let go of the 2600 in spite of it being mostly terrible. (Activision and Imagic being that machine's saviors.) UK scene is mostly Spectrum worship for reasons that still make no sense given how it was akin to the original Game Boy in being a system with almost no redeeming factors whatsoever outside of cheapness.

 

Places like Atari Age, or a Sega forum (one that hasn't devolved into Sonic ... stuff..), or a Turbografx forum have more heart and soul to them. More passion, more enthusiasm.

 

Less 21 year olds wearing Contra Code or "Classically Trained" shirts with an NES console on it.

 

Honestly? I like both the Atari computer lines as someone with no nostalgia for either.

[Spurge]

I do remember buying my ST and being quite disappointed after being an owner of an Atari 400 and then 130xe. I used my ST thinking, geeze, the sound isn't that much better than my Atari! Then I played some games, and thinking, wow, it can't even scroll properly! My Atari 400 used to scroll super smooth! Overall, it was a disappointment and not much of a technical leap from the A8's you would have expected. The Amiga on the other hand, of which I bought an A1000 later on, is exactly what I would have expected the newest Atari's to be like.

[landondyer]

I liked the A8 line a lot, for playing games. Writing them, though, was a real pain. Months of work in assembly.

 

The ST was a real computer. You could do significant work on it in a high-level language (well, C). And while it was definitely tough to get interesting graphics going, you /could/. Sound was a huge disappointment, however, and the ST should have been much better.

 

So I like the platforms for different things, and I don't pretend that they're equivalent.

 

The natural extension of the A8 was the Amiga, which had its own trouble. I really wish that Tramiel had had about another year to do an A8-like 68000-based machine, and that we'd had the gumption to ditch GEM and done a real software platform. (Then again, another year of ST-like pressure probably would have killed the team :-/ ). I still get upset when I think about the utter disaster that the BASIC we bought from DRI was.

[emkay]

This is an interesting topic. And one I personally have no biases towards.

 

I grew up with Commodore for computers. For my family's income and the time frame it was the only really clear choice. (Christmas 87 when I got the C64.)

Here in New England nobody owned Atari computers. Or Apples. It was 80% C64 for home users. Cheap and powerful overall.

PCs were still stupidly expensive and gameswise inferior to a 64 (CGA anyone? Analog joysticks in a still digital stick gameplay era?), and Apple 2s were just ridiculously expensive school machines.

(Apple is still ridiculously expensive for what you get. Nothing has changed outside of OSX being pretty awesome till they removed Rosetta. Hardware on the other hand not so much.)

If someone could explain , what to do, just like telling people Apples are Pears, and from that moment on, they believe it.

Is it Apple or was it Steve Jobs, being the king of illusions..... false illusions.

Making people giving more money for less.

 

I knew ONE person who claimed to own an ST. And that was just a claim. Nobody at all with 8bits. A few people had cheapo/garage sale discovery Adams, Aquariuses, CoCos, Vic20s, and TI/99s, but

the only computer most people had and stores actually supported was the 64.

Marketing at it's best. If there isn't a prognosis for a huge sale, they put less in stores. It's like a skunk, telling it stinks. Then make a fart and get right

 

Now that we have my history out of the way what do I think?

 

I just got my first Atari computer like 2 weeks ago. I kind of like it. Its cute and fun. With lots of cartridge games I don't have to much worry about disks (RIP most of my Amiga 3.5s and about a third of my DOS 3.5s) dying just being in a box

like I would buying a C64 now. And its a machine I didn't have experience with so its fun to experience something I never did for a fair price. And as a collector places like Myatari and Best Electronics have gobs of games MISB so I can

be happy in my collectingness. (One reason I have no real passion or effort collecting NES/SNES even though there were some awesome games. Boxes and manuals barely exist.) Plus it was primarily an NTSC system for the older

stuff so no hassles there.

 

(Not disrespecting some of the AMAZING things the Polish folks are doing with the machines these days.)

 

I am enjoying it to the point I want an ST too just to play more advanced games as at heart I am an RPG and turn based strategy guy. Ever since Ultima 1 was purchased in early 88.

 

From my standpoint both systems are like the "third wheel" computer of their day. The 8 bits were in third after the C64 and Apple 2, though if I had to rank them in quality it would be C64 then A8 then A2.

 

 

It's a bit hard to compare 8 bit systems, when they got released in different years, as the C64 had stuff inside, where the developer looked at the Ataris and picked some of the raisins from there to make the cake tastier. The best 8 bit is possibly the Enterprise... at all.

My personal experience:

 

A8, C64, CPC, Speccy

 

A8 , because it was 1st of them, able to do ego view stuff, like other system couldn't handle for another "10" years.

C64, available colours in hires, SID ...

CPC, the 1st real PC for at home, serving good games and fine home-office solutions.

[Curt Vendel]

As someone "there in the day". It was several factors:

 

1. The XL series was canceled, specifically the long anticipated 1450xld and the expansion box

 

2. The XE/ST styling didn't feel or look like Atari products

 

3. 8bitters got few and far between insofar as new hardware, other then some printers and the Xm301 modem, nothing else showed up for nearly 2 years

 

4. The STs had no compatibility with the 8bits, not even an SIO port. We couldn't use their disk drives and 8bitters wanted a 3.5" drive, meanwhile C64's were getting them, we were still using leftover 1050 stock until the xf551 finally came out.

 

So there was a lot of bitterness and feeling of abandonment with the new Atari and much of the 8bitter, just out of pride and spite refused to migrate to the STs

 

Cury

[+wood_jl]

Remember how many titles came out for other computers, but not for the 8-bit Atari? By the mid-1980s, 8-bit computers (in the U.S.) were dying. C64 and Apple II continued to get new games (Ultima, etc.) but not A8. I don't see how people think that continued heavy support for A8 was warranted from Atari, when users were bailing left-and-right, and software companies had already bailed. In a fantasy world where business isn't driven by profits, it would have been nice to have continued A8 development and support, for those who remained. How realistic would it be for Atari to compete with Amiga with a 1450XLD, instead of the ST?

[Bloodcat]

Another thing I thought of is wondering why the XL and XEs didn't use upgraded tech from the 7800 project. If that failure to launch had been used to make the next generation of 8 bits some things might have been different.

 

Its something that happened to the 8 bit computers in general. They never evolved while keeping compatibility. Something only PCs seem to pay any attention to whatsoever.

 

The XEGS came out in 87. Now what other system came out in 87? The PC Engine (Turbografx 16). A system that favorably compares to even the Amiga in spite of using an 8 bit CPU. (Again custom chips make ALL the difference.) Only the Apple 2 tried this with the GS but Apple basically let it die promoting the Macintosh in spite of it being ridiculously expensive and being the start of the era where Apple thought they were just too good for games even though they ARE the killer app for a computing device.

 

(Ok its more entertainment than games specifically. But this was pre Internet so entertainment basically meant games.)

 

Consoles were cheap, easy to use, and way more powerful than comparably priced computers and popularity just surged with them. (Seriously. Look at what the 1983 vintage NES and the 85 vintage Sega Master System could do compared to the 8 bit computers. Multiple game buttons on controllers, excellent scrolling, fast action, animated multicolored sprites. Hell, Castlevania and Contra on the NES blow away many Amiga games of the late 80s!)

 

There was no meaningful upgrades or evolution. You buy a box, hope its popular enough for you to use, inevitably get hosed when the next big thing shows up, give up and go buy a console that sold more than 10 times what your Atari sold, or 4-5 the C64. The 8 bit computer era started off as such a crazy disaster of multiple confusing format hell its a wonder ANY system did well anywhere! The Aquarius had a 4 month window. The Vic was what? 2 years? 3 maybe? The TI got burned hard by Commodore's selling power. Atari had the crash to deal with. The Adam was a mess out the gate and got hit like Atari did by the 83 crash. And add in the Timex Sinclairs and the Radio Shack machines. Really unless you bought a 64, Apple 2, or Atari 800 you were SOL. You wasted money on an expensive paperweight. Only the CoCo kind of weathered the storm since Radio Shack itself had some small support for it. And IBM even nearly mangled home PC ownership with the PC Jr debacle. (Even if it was the first real attempt to make PCs a HOME COMPUTER. Tandy would actually succeed with the 1000 line to some degree.)

[Rybags]

There's not really anything from 7800 that could have benefited the A8.

 

Maria is in no way compatible with Antic/GTIA in a software sense, and works with Static RAM.

 

The best upgrade path they could have provided for the 8-bitters would have been a beefed up Antic/GTIA replacement with more abilities, and a better audio system, ideally an 8 voice Pokey and the Amy chip. And more RAM, and possibly the 65816.

Problem is, you'd end up with something that would have overshadowed the ST in many respects, taking possible sales away.

[WizWor]

I think that the reason for the split is that people are nostalgic for the computer they grew up with. I do not think most people (maybe we should do a poll) grew up with both an a8 and an st. I didn't. When the st arrived, I was very happy with my 130xe. I had a huge investment in hardware and software and was not prepared to move on or have two computer systems. My a8 was a day-to-day computer until I moved on to IBM compatible in 1989. At that time, due to the limitations of the PC, my Atari continued to serve as a gaming platform.

 

Had Atari emulated the a8 on the st, things might have been different.