A8 h/w scrolling techiques and future possible developments

[carmel_andrews]

like, is there any game that gives you realtime 360 degree scrolling view like non atari games such as Croc (playstation and others) and the tomb raider series (pc/playstation and others)

 

Only games that i think come close is encounter and rescue on fractulus (but i am not sure if they quite pull it off) and then games like star raiders (which has a particularly interesting scroll concept that i haven't seen used hardly in any A8 game since) and ball blazer/dimension x (but the 'effect' doesn't quiet come off)

 

Lets take a look at the SR concept of the scroll view, it's a forward motion with depth type scrolling, i.e as you keep going forward if you tilt the joystick up/forward, your view moves accordingly with you as does anything on the screen and it is still coming towards you and similarly if you tilt the joystick down/backward your view moves accordingly with you as does anything on the screen and it is still coming towards you

 

Lets take a game like a side scrolling shoot em up (i.e dropzone/mirax force etc) and use the forward motion depth type scroll technique as SR uses, where the field of play is coming towards you including backdrop, enemy sprites etc etc and like in SR, as you keep moving forward if you tilt the joystick up/forward, your view moves accordingly with you as does anything on the screen and it is still coming towards you and similarly if you tilt the joystick down/backward your view moves accordingly with you as does anything on the screen and it is still coming towards you...and just to add a twist to the gameplay, like what happens in star raiders (if you press the A key) and also on the arcade version of defender (if you press the reverse button) effect on both games alters the direction of travel, if you reversed the view of scrolling in the suggested shootem up, the scrolling view is reversed (i.e you are where the background/enemy sprites etc where and the background/enemy sprites etc are where you were) and moving the joystick accordingly the scroll view will act accordingly (as in SR)

 

Or lets look at a run/jump platformy game (like smb/sonic etc) or a run/jump platformy shootem up (like turrican) and use the forward motion depth type scroll technique as SR uses, where the field of play is coming towards you including backdrop, enemy sprites etc etc and like in SR, as you keep moving forward if you tilt the joystick up/forward, your view moves accordingly with you as does anything on the screen and it is still coming towards you and similarly if you tilt the joystick down/backward your view moves accordingly with you as does anything on the screen and it is still coming towards you...and just to add a twist to the gameplay, like what happens in star raiders (if you press the A key) and also on the arcade version of defender (if you press the reverse button) effect on both games alters the direction of travel, if you reversed the view of scrolling in the suggested run/jump platformy game or run/jump platformy shootem up, the scrolling view is reversed (i.e you are where the background/enemy sprites etc where and the background/enemy sprites etc are where you were) and moving the joystick accordingly the scroll view will act accordingly (as in SR)

 

And also platformers like DK, BBSB/Miner 2049r, JSW/MM etc instead of having a static one screen/level world why not use the techniques as suggested above and put each part of the screen mechanics used in DK, BBSB/Miner 2049r, JSW/MM as forward motion with depth scrolling (as per SR) and also with the revierse view of travel (as per SR and coin op defender) again using the techniques as described above

 

There are possibly other arcade gaming genres (like river raid type games) that could benefit from this concept of h/w scrolling and would add something else into the gameplay

 

If SR pulled it off, surely other upcoming A8 games could

[Rybags]

Star Raiders doesn't use scrolling. It redraws everything using 3D calculations. The reason it runs reasonably quick is that there's not exactly a lot of stuff that has to be redrawn.

 

That's the killer - for games using proper 3D or even the "2.5D" like Wolfenstein don't really benefit from scrolling. The entire scene has to be redrawn.

 

I guess scrolling could be used as a kind of "fudge" in between full redraw steps, but there would be some loss of perspective. e.g with something like Project M, the redraw could operate in 2 pixel left/right steps and scrolling could do the single-step.

But even then, it'd only be useful when panning or strafing. No use at all for going back/forward.

[sack-c0s]

I heard that some C64 stuff does rotations as fast as it can, but renders to HW sprites so that translation can be done every frame. It works out as a pretty good way of giving an impression of a more fluid framerate and the trick might work on the A8 for certain types of 3D games

[Wrathchild]

Lets take a look at the SR concept of the scroll view, it's a forward motion with depth type scrolling, i.e as you keep going forward if you tilt the joystick up/forward, your view moves accordingly with you as does anything on the screen and it is still coming towards you and similarly if you tilt the joystick down/backward your view moves accordingly with you as does anything on the screen and it is still coming towards you

Erm, if you had forward velocity you'd be looping the loop wouldn't you?

Take games like Domark's/Parker's Star Wars and even Elite for that matter (side / aft views). There is no h/w scrolling going on here just a few stars' positions being calc'd relative to how you've moved and which direction you're pointing. Probably Novagen's Mercenary (again no scroll above ground, not sure about underground) better portrays the scene you want? Saying that, Space Harrier should be the closest thing?

Lets take a game like a side scrolling shoot em up (i.e dropzone/mirax force etc) and use the forward motion depth type scroll technique as SR uses, where the field of play is coming towards you including backdrop, enemy sprites etc etc and like in SR, as you keep moving forward if you tilt the joystick up/forward, your view moves accordingly with you as does anything on the screen and it is still coming towards you and similarly if you tilt the joystick down/backward your view moves accordingly with you as does anything on the screen and it is still coming towards you...and just to add a twist to the gameplay, like what happens in star raiders (if you press the A key) and also on the arcade version of defender (if you press the reverse button) effect on both games alters the direction of travel, if you reversed the view of scrolling in the suggested shootem up, the scrolling view is reversed (i.e you are where the background/enemy sprites etc where and the background/enemy sprites etc are where you were) and moving the joystick accordingly the scroll view will act accordingly (as in SR)

You've lost me here I'm afraid, the game 'Blaster' springs to mind... carpet sequence in 'Master of the Lamps'? Still no h/w scrolling. Is 'Zaxxon' close or a half-way house?

Or lets look at a run/jump platformy game (like smb/sonic etc) or a run/jump platformy shootem up (like turrican) and use the forward motion depth type scroll technique as SR uses, where the field of play is coming towards you including backdrop, enemy sprites etc etc and like in SR, as you keep moving forward if you tilt the joystick up/forward, your view moves accordingly with you as does anything on the screen and it is still coming towards you and similarly if you tilt the joystick down/backward your view moves accordingly with you as does anything on the screen and it is still coming towards you...and just to add a twist to the gameplay, like what happens in star raiders (if you press the A key) and also on the arcade version of defender (if you press the reverse button) effect on both games alters the direction of travel, if you reversed the view of scrolling in the suggested run/jump platformy game or run/jump platformy shootem up, the scrolling view is reversed (i.e you are where the background/enemy sprites etc where and the background/enemy sprites etc are where you were) and moving the joystick accordingly the scroll view will act accordingly (as in SR)

 

Vaguely with you, but a bad bit of cut and paste there?! What, why, where.... do you want a 3D game or it to still be 2D with a 'zoom' feature? Is this from first person perspective or camera behind? Track and Field so you look down at the ground say after jumping a hurdle? Is the joystick controlling your 'view' at this point or is forward for running forward and back to run back and left/right to get disqualified for running into the opponents lane, or does how fast you do the left/right wiggle still determine your speed?

And also platformers like DK, BBSB/Miner 2049r, JSW/MM etc instead of having a static one screen/level world why not use the techniques as suggested above and put each part of the screen mechanics used in DK, BBSB/Miner 2049r, JSW/MM as forward motion with depth scrolling (as per SR) and also with the revierse view of travel (as per SR and coin op defender) again using the techniques as described above

 

Er, so you want to make individual Mario 64 type world game using the concepts out of each of these titles? Even the 3D engine shown on the Numen demo tells you the 1.79Mhz just ain't up to that.

There are possibly other arcade gaming genres (like river raid type games) that could benefit from this concept of h/w scrolling and would add something else into the gameplay

 

If SR pulled it off, surely other upcoming A8 games could

It didn't and I wouldn't think so.

Certainly a multi-way 2D platformer with the speed of Sonic would be lovely to behold.