Impulse X

[108 Stars]

We can't agree on everything.

 

I am absolutely sure 600 is doable. It was for the Lynx, which is arguably even less popular and considered unplayable by many due to poor LCD. Look at the attention the Lynx gets compared to the Jag, be it on AA or any other forum. The Jaguar gets ridiculed at least, the Lynx many people don't even know ever existed. The 3DO also sold more units, yet I think the Jaguar gets more attention. Lifetime sales do not equal popularity today. In the end there are enough units to go around for pretty much every console for collectors and fans, save some very obscure ones.

 

The main thing required is to reach out further than the Jaguar fanbase. And that is something no Jag game has ever done or even tried. Retro gaming is en vogue, plenty of Jaguars sitting on shelves of non Atari-fans. The system is not very limited when it comes to the kind of complex games people dig as compared to oldschool quick arcade fun. Offer a game that is spectacular enough for people to notice, and they will spend some money on a cool new game for an oscure old system. The retro gaming fandom is actually quite willing to pay,as long as it is either rare or you can show them it is cool.

 

Pre-rendered stuff like Native would have done the trick. Even on Dreamcast in Sturmwind much of it was pre rendered instead of real time 3D afaik, still people praise it as one of the most beautiful games of an entire console generation. It had the look and style to make people want it, and the marketing to let people know it exists.

 

The cost involved in manufacturing 600 carts is beside the point of my argument; I clearly said I understand that most can not and don't want to spend a couple of years' salaries on that. My point was that if 600 are made, they're awesome and get media attention, 600 will be sold. It may take a while to sell out, but they will. Having something that seems really cool and reaching out to the masses instead of just a couple of die hard forums makes all the difference in the world.

 

That is what made Pier Solar outsell Beggar Prince's lifetime sales in pre-orders alone. That is what makes Sturmwind more popular than several other Dreamcast games put together. What made Zaku sell four times as many units as the average Lynx game.

 

It is not a thing a few enthusiasts can easily do without a budget; we were about 6 people involved in Pier Solar instead of only two at Duranik, and indebting ourselves andeven quitting day jobs was involved to get the production going. But the unlikeliehood of making those sacrifices does not make it any less true that larger sales numbers can be achieved if you did meet those requirements.

 

Realistically, you will want to have a publisher involved. If I was one and had the means, I would absolutely do such a print run and be convinced to break even at least. Of course, publishers for retro games are few, and most of them are also strictly enthusiast enterprises content with humble production runs for the core fanbase. RSG has pretty much submerged now. WM I would not entrust with it at present, given some of the bad marketing lately.

Edited March 15, 2015 by 108 Stars

[Sapicco]

Just bought impulse x from 16/32!

[sh3-rg]

I am absolutely sure 600 is doable.

 

What makes you so sure? Would you be 20,000 euros sure?

 

It was for the Lynx, which is arguably even less popular

 

Not sure how you would measure that. Units out in the wild see Lynx at anywhere between 4 and 16 times more popular. Active users or collectors... cannot see how you might measure that.

 

The 3DO also sold more units, yet I think the Jaguar gets more attention.

 

Of course, it's an Atari, not a fly-by-night one-hit (miss?)-wonder. 3DO doesn't represent fond childhood memories for many the way Atari does. It also aspired to be a multi-media device, not just a games console. Doesn't in any way help the discussion of how many active or interested Jaguar owners are out there.

 

Lifetime sales do not equal popularity today.

 

Of course not. It does, however, give you something by which you can measure a potential.

 

The main thing required is to reach out further than the Jaguar fanbase. And that is something no Jag game has ever done or even tried.

 

Read my previous post. Another World did exactly this. It is now owned by people who do not and never intend to own Jaguar. It was all over the interwebs for a time. News spread far and wide on gaming sites. But you cannot create, produce and expect to sell a game to people who do not own a machine unless, as with AW, you have this really good but uncommon reason to convince them - in this case a loving fanbase an original, iconic game.

Read Duranik's post again. Who wants to create a game that will never be played and will only ever sit on a shelf? What's the point of selling another 350 units to people who will never take it out of the box because they don't own the hardware?You could put a brick in a box and tell someone it was the best Jaguar game ever if all they ever did was watch a YouTube and stare at it in their revolving glass cabinet.

 

If you're suggesting creation of a game that is so impressive and so appealing that it forces people to go out and buy Jaguars to play it on... then maybe the dev need to reassess which platform to work on, because such a game on a popular platform is surely going to earn you enough money to put your feet up and retire on the proceeds and then make all the Jaguar games you wish to until your dying day.

 

I cannot imagine such a game.

 

A game that, by which all account completely and unequivocally rinsed every last drop of awesome out of the Jaguar, the 64-bit Atari Jaguar as many know it as, is going to appeal how to Joe Gamer who is used to his Dreamcast, ps4, gaming rig...? They have nothing by which to measure this greatness. You would have to be close enough and knowledgeable enough about Jaguar to be able to understand the achievement... and then we're talking about just those same guys who regularly go out and buy Jaguar games because they're Jaguar fans.

 

You cannot base a sound business plan on those kinds of ethereal assumptions and wishful thinking.

 

The cost involved in manufacturing 600 carts is beside the point of my argument

 

 

It has to be the essence of any argument. You are imagining a world where you can create demand for a product to the tune of 2 to 3 times that which has been observed to date. To make this happen, you suggest a marketing campaign that sees the game offered beyond the active user base.

 

But you cannot separate the cost of manufacturing from "the argument", it's as important as the moment you decide to create a game, it's as important as how you decide to put the game out, it's every bit as important as any other factor, possibly -the- most important factor, when theorising in the realm of unprecedented unit sales.

 

My point was that if 600 are made, they're awesome and get media attention, 600 will be sold. It may take a while to sell out, but they will. Having something that seems really cool and reaching out to the masses instead of just a couple of die hard forums makes all the difference in the world.

 

Sorry daniel, there's no basis in reality there. You cannot make business decisions on that kind of wishful thinking.

 

Realistically, you will want to have a publisher involved. If I was one and had the means, I would absolutely do such a print run and be convinced to break even at least.

 

That would be your decision to make in that instance, but I would advise you against it to the point where I would call it reckless. And when it comes to retro publishers... what do they actually do and offer that you cannot do yourself without the middleman expenses, a room, a telephone, a computer and some determination? Realistically, if you contact a 3rd party publisher, you're going to be offered a number to sign away all rights to your game, and you might take weeks to recover from the shock at the pitiful figure when told that no, actually, the decimal point wasn't misplaced.

Edited March 15, 2015 by sh3-rg

[Lost Dragon]

Many years ago during my 'GBA Phase' as i call it, i discovered Homebrew as it were, and bought multiple copies of:Reaxion, Thrust Advance and Qwak. I kept 2 copies of each for myself, then gave away a further 3 (i think) copies of each to friends of mine as i thought they'd make ideal gifts.All of us at that time kinda rediscovering the classic era of gaming for ourselves and it was great to just give something different as a gift.

 

I wish now i'd picked up a few more misc GBA Homebrew titles when i had the chance, but that's hindsight for you.

 

My point here is, for myself, it was a very enjoyable, but very brief 'dip' into the world of buying Homebrew games.I'm constantly amazed at the wonders folk get out on platforms like A8/Jaguar/Colecovision/MD/Lynx etc etc, will happily gawp at a youtube video and go bloody'ell..thats's superb, but there's no burning desire to buy another machine and pick up the game for myself, nor it seems my friends.

[Lost Dragon]

Huge appreciation for the time and skill good people put in, time and time again just is'nt, to be blunt, translating into sales.I simply cannot justify buying any more hardware, after going through the stage of buying lot of old machines i once loved, dabbling on them for a while, then boxing back up, never to see the light of day again.

 

My PS1, PS2, Wonderswan Colour, GB Micro, GB, DC etc are all boxed up.

 

The Xboxes? used as DVD players, PSP occ.gets a blast, ditto the 360.

 

My Tomy Tronic 3D Handhelds boxed up, etc etc.

 

I'd love to do a lot more to support the Homebrew 'industry', but it's simply not going to happen.

 

None of my friends i gave the GBA carts to has ever bought any Homebrew since, so it sadly does seem theres a very limited market, beyond the core gamer and collector, in my personal exp.

[108 Stars]

Kevin, I think you are seriously underestimating the popularity of retro nowadays. Prices on every platform don't rise out of nowhere, they rise because interest is growing.

 

Another World did still not go nearly far enough. I did read your previous post, and it definitely did help to have the popular name attached. But I dare to say if WM had promoted it (before they started going crazy with ProjectY and N), or RSG, it could have exceeded those sales. Media attention was tiny compared to many other after-market games, and the reason was not just that it is on Jaguar. It had some degree of exposure due to the name, but it could have been more, even more so if it had been a game not known to everyone for 25 years.

 

How you can make say which systems have a big enough interest with fand going for them is hard to say; you can never make definitive statements there. It is all estimation based on previous sales (for which you also have to take into account those games marketing efforts, in the Jaguar's case rather small imo), presence and knowledge of the brand name, popularity of the game's genre and marketing means.

 

The reason I see the Lynx as having less of an appeal than the Jaguar is simple: I frequent forums, I watch YouTube vids, I follow retro collection circles. All around, up to the activity on Atari related forums, there is greater participation on Jaguar sections than Lynx. I personally wish it was the other way around for obvious reasons; and I hope the new LCD may give the Lynx a little boost. But I clearly feel "my" platform is the minor player of the Atari wildcats. Go outside the Atari scene and people at least know the Jag for the clunky controller and Kasumi Ninja. A large part of those people don't even know what a Lynx is. Being infamous is still better than not being known at all. This may have something to do with Lynx being the handheld; the Game Gear is also considerably less popular now than the Master System. Hell, look on eBay where the supply of new old stock Jag games has shrunken to very few, while you still get lots of shrink-wrapped Lynx games.

 

Raisng the sales numbers is not magic. Some guessing and risk is always involved in business. I have experienced the difference it makes at my example of SFT's Mega Drive games compared to Pier Solar. SFT did a decent amount of PR, and a good product quality; they sold 1500 copies. Popular system, I know. But what counts is the difference. With PS we one upped them in terms of marketing our game. It was the very same console. Nobody could know wether the game would be better or worse than SFT's first title. All we had to try and surpass the sales of a game that already had attention from websites and print mags was to try and get even more attention, from an even wider audience. And it worked out.

 

SFT's sales were deemed impressive, as was their PR; so by your logic, they would have been the esample of max sales for a Mega Drive game in the 2000s. Nobody should have had reason to try to do better. Yet by putting even more effort into it we dared to manufacture a firsdt print run greater than all three of SFT's, and more than quadrupled their sales with lifetime PS sales. Why would Zaku have aimed high, financing molds and manufacturing large print runs of a game for a system that usually does not sell more than a 150?

Nothing would ever grow an adience if you always took the previous sales as max number possible. Being reckless may not be sound business; but neither is limiting supply to not ever exceed what was sold before. Can't recall Jag homebrewers sitting on boxes of unsold carts ever, so it appears that the usual numbers are more of a representation of minimum demand than maximum.

 

Why would a Jaguar game nor be able to do that under the right circumstances? I am not talking the same numbers, I am talking one tenth of PS sales as a potential for a game that has all the right stuff to make gamers wet their pants. What happens on PlayStation 4 does not matter; it must be impressive in its own right. A Jaguar game will not target the Call of Duty players; but it can target the general retro players instead of just the Jaguar players. The retro fans know their systems well enough to see if a game is impressive for the Jaguar/3DO/PS1 era. The Native demo fits that bill, from a visual standpoint a game impress that would sell on PS1.

 

Give the people, I dunno, say a game like Contra/Probotector, with the visual oomph of the Native demo. They will dust off the Jag unit that is collecting dust on the shelf, that they bought just for giggles... because it is an amazing game, the kind of which does not come around often today, and in great presentation. It is secondary that it is a Jaguar then. Sure, they may say they would have preferred it on SNES or Dreamcast or whatever... but if software sells current hardware, it can also be good enough to reactivate old hardware that is already there and not being used.

 

If you seriously don't believe the Jaguar can attract some people to play it given a game that interests them... then I don't know, it is a depressing thought. I bought mine because of the homebrew scene. As I did buy my Lynx for the same reason. And for some reason, prices for each have gone through the roof since then... so I take it people are interested enough to spend money on antiquated hardware, and like to have it wether it is to really play, or to collect; both of which also would go for games being low quantity collectibles.

 

Of course it may well be that only 200 of the 600 actually PLAY the game. And maybe only 50 of the 200 you expect to sell to would do so either. Pier Solar was certainly only played by a small percentage of buyers, and that is sad for me. But it is still worthwhile having done it imo. People enjoy it whether they are only collectors or gamers. I sure prefer the latter group, but if they help making a big project possible for a minority of players... well, it is not my loss they did not play. But I won because I did something I can be proud of, and the minority who played got a game that felt like a big production.

Duranik came to see how sales of Jag games are nowadays. The sad truth is, the kind of games sold to this point mostly, and the way they are sold makes growth pretty much impossible. You must dare to win. It is games like they do that can reach a wider audience; but it's a hen/egg situation because they would require the audience a game like theirs could attract imo before they can be confident enough to make it. Nobody else did something similar, so they are alone with this. They cannot afford it as private persons; I totally get that. I told them I prefer they work on a different platform. Whatever they do on Jaguar, it would be even more popular elsewhere. But I do not share the distrust in the willingness to buy Jaguar games at all. If it has to be Jaguar, 600 seems viable to me.

 

About publishers: They are useful for taking care of the things the creatives may not care to do; like the mentioned PR the Jag scene is lacking, like financing and organizing the manufacturing in China, and shipping the product out. A lot of hassle and the unfun part of game development imo. Worth it if they do their job well.

Edited March 15, 2015 by 108 Stars

[+LS650]

If you think that 600+ copies will be a success, why not offer to partner with them and front them the money needed? They might well take you up on such an offer.

[108 Stars]

Because I am not rich either. I couldn't afford to pre-order a single copy right now most likely.

 

And I am not working with WM eversince it has become a real company. The company did not do exemplary work with their latest Mega Drive and SNES projects either, so I couldn't even put my hand in the fire that they would do it well.

 

Redspotgames who did the Sturmwind release have sadly have a lot of issues and lost peoples' trust too, and submerged. Leaves Super Fighter Team as maybe the best option at present.

Edited March 15, 2015 by 108 Stars

[JagChris]

Why would a Jaguar game nor be able to do that under the right circumstances? I am not talking the same numbers, I am talking one tenth of PS sales as a potential for a game that has all the right stuff to make gamers wet their pants. What happens on PlayStation 4 does not matter; it must be impressive in its own right. A Jaguar game will not target the Call of Duty players; but it can target the general retro players instead of just the Jaguar players. The retro fans know their systems well enough to see if a game is impressive for the Jaguar/3DO/PS1 era. The Native demo fits that bill, from a visual standpoint a game impress that would sell on PS1.

 

Give the people, I dunno, say a game like Contra/Probotector, with the visual oomph of the Native demo. They will dust off the Jag unit that is collecting dust on the shelf, that they bought just for giggles... because it is an amazing game, the kind of which does not come around often today, and in great presentation. It is secondary that it is a Jaguar then. Sure, they may say they would have preferred it on SNES or Dreamcast or whatever... but if software sells current hardware, it can also be good enough to reactivate old hardware that is already there and not being used.

 

If you seriously don't believe the Jaguar can attract some people to play it given a game that interests them... then I don't know, it is a depressing thought. I bought mine because of the homebrew scene. As I did buy my Lynx for the same reason. And for some reason, prices for each have gone through the roof since then... so I take it people are interested enough to spend money on antiquated hardware, and like to have it wether it is to really play, or to collect; both of which also would go for games being low quantity collectibles.

 

Of course it may well be that only 200 of the 600 actually PLAY the game. And maybe only 50 of the 200 you expect to sell to would do so either. Pier Solar was certainly only played by a small percentage of buyers, and that is sad for me. But it is still worthwhile having done it imo. People enjoy it whether they are only collectors or gamers. I sure prefer the latter group, but if they help making a big project possible for a minority of players... well, it is not my loss they did not play. But I won because I did something I can be proud of, and the minority who played got a game that felt like a big production.

Duranik came to see how sales of Jag games are nowadays. The sad truth is, the kind of games sold to this point mostly, and the way they are sold makes growth pretty much impossible. You must dare to win. It is games like they do that can reach a wider audience; but it's a hen/egg situation because they would require the audience a game like theirs could attract imo before they can be confident enough to make it. Nobody else did something similar, so they are alone with this. They cannot afford it as private persons; I totally get that. I told them I prefer they work on a different platform. Whatever they do on Jaguar, it would be even more popular elsewhere. But I do not share the distrust in the willingness to buy Jaguar games at all. If it has to be Jaguar, 600 seems viable to me.

 

About publishers: They are useful for taking care of the things the creatives may not care to do; like the mentioned PR the Jag scene is lacking, like financing and organizing the manufacturing in China, and shipping the product out. A lot of hassle and the unfun part of game development imo. Worth it if they do their job well.

 

It also occurs to me that Duranik (I fugging LOVE that name. DURANIK! Does that not just sound cool or what?) now has a bit more weight and clout behind their name in the retro scene with their DC SturmWind release on top of everything else they have done. I would imagine an announcement of them working on a Jaguar release would raise some eyebrows and generate some natural advertising and interest. 'Hey what's going on over here?' sorta thing.

 

But what's baffling to me is why they would only hold out for a custom cart architecture that has never been done before on the Jaguar rather than try to work with what's already established right out of the gate? Especially when they are worried about sales. Or why use a Lynx card architecture for their re-release of Alpine games that limits it only to being used on the Lynx II? I know people who prefer the original Lynx to the second one. Or why not use an existing publisher (Songbird, Super Fighter Team) rather than hassle it alone?

 

Anyways I think maybe Duranik has just moved on from the Jaguar/Lynx regardless of whatever would have happened with Impulse X. Hopefully from time to time we will see their work in Matthias awesome releases.

 

@108 stars, the retro game shop here in Oregon sells and displays Pier Solar prominently. It is a big deal in the retro community. Congratulations on your success.

Edited March 15, 2015 by JagChris

[sh3-rg]

If you seriously don't believe the Jaguar can attract some people to play it given a game that interests them... then I don't know, it is a depressing thought.

 

Some: yes. It happens regularly.

 

But not to the tune of two to three hundred percent of the current active, buying user base.

 

I feel like I'm kind of pissing in the wind here. What you saw with Pier Solar and people pulling dusty megadrives out of cupboards and wardrobes is a world away from the reality of the Jaguar in 2015.

 

 

But what's baffling to me is why they would only hold out for a custom cart architecture that has never been done before on the Jaguar rather than try to work with what's already established right out of the gate?

 

Well, I'd bet it's down to something like using a massive bank-switched cart to do the kind of things that Native did (decompressing sprites in real time) on a much grander scale, to allow for truly spectacular amounts of variety. The sort of stuff that wouldn't be practical with CD due to reliability/speed/general crapness.

Edited March 15, 2015 by sh3-rg

[JagChris]

I re-read 108 stars posts. He makes a lot of sense.

[108 Stars]

 

I feel like I'm kind of pissing in the wind here. What you saw with Pier Solar and people pulling dusty megadrives out of cupboards and wardrobes is a world away from the reality of the Jaguar in 2015.

Dude, no pissing in the forum, please. Don't make the spirit of the cat your own too much, stay clean!

 

In the end, neither of us can prove their point. Not possible until it is done and either succeeds or fails, and not our place to decide for Duranik.

ou have given your input and the advice you felt you had to make for Duranik's sake, and I have made my point. It's obvious we are very far from each other in our opinion on the matter, and that is fine.

 

I just felt that since I wholeheartedly believe what I wrote, I would best write it down here as well, as a counter argument to the more pessimistic view you offered. I could have just told Duranik in private, but I felt it was a nice contrast of opinions on the matter for people to think about.

 

Duranik will decide for themselves, if they haven't done so already. Still having the Jaguar project in their head after all those years shows it is an important matter for them.

 

 

 

It also occurs to me that Duranik (I fugging LOVE that name. DURANIK! Does that not just sound cool or what?) now has a bit more weight and clout behind their name in the retro scene with their DC SturmWind release on top of everything else they have done. I would imagine an announcement of them working on a Jaguar release would raise some eyebrows and generate some natural advertising and interest. 'Hey what's going on over here?' sorta thing.

 

But what's baffling to me is why they would only hold out for a custom cart architecture that has never been done before on the Jaguar rather than try to work with what's already established right out of the gate? Especially when they are worried about sales. Or why use a Lynx card architecture for their re-release of Alpine games that limits it only to being used on the Lynx II? I know people who prefer the original Lynx to the second one. Or why not use an existing publisher (Songbird, Super Fighter Team) rather than hassle it alone?

 

 

I think the reason is, as sh3-rg suggested, that current cart designs are not feasible for the kind of game they have in mind. Remember how spectacular Sturmwind and the Native demo looked; they have probably calculated they will need a cart with more memory than current ones offer. I take it that whatever they have in mind is meant to be a showcase for the system.

About Alpine Games, afaik it is just the same reason you are not advised to use other homebrews or the flashcard with a model 1; it doesn't fit as long as the lid is attached.

As for why not use another publisher... I think they want to keep the price low, and at least at Songbird you would not get that nice a box, manual and card. The new Alpine Games is as close as it can be to an original Lynx card without actually paying much money for new molds like SFT did. Still a thick PCB, but with curved lip and embossed Lynx logo. Sweet imo.

Edited March 15, 2015 by 108 Stars

[Duranik]

But what's baffling to me is why they would only hold out for a custom cart architecture that has never been done before on the Jaguar rather than try to work with what's already established right out of the gate?

 

Simply because the solutions available don't have enough memory ?

 

Or why use a Lynx card architecture for their re-release of Alpine games that limits it only to being used on the Lynx II? I know people who prefer the original Lynx to the second one. Or why not use an existing publisher (Songbird, Super Fighter Team) rather than hassle it alone?

 

Well also easy to answer, we had to use what we got offered. We are not able to design our own carts and all that stuff, we are not experts in this field at all.

The cart had some size issues with the Lynx 1 so we added the plastic top because it was problematic for the Lynx 1 anyways.

Publishers want to make some money and there is a not a lot of money to make with this low volumes.

[Zerosquare]

We are not able to design our own carts and all that stuff, we are not experts in this field at all.

If you need help with that part, feel free to ask SCPCD and me. We designed the Jagtopus (4 MB rewritable cartridge) together, and as a matter of fact we were discussing going beyond that very recently.

[JagChris]

 

Simply because the solutions available don't have enough memory ?

 

 

Well also easy to answer, we had to use what we got offered. We are not able to design our own carts and all that stuff, we are not experts in this field at all.

The cart had some size issues with the Lynx 1 so we added the plastic top because it was problematic for the Lynx 1 anyways.

Publishers want to make some money and there is a not a lot of money to make with this low volumes.

 

 

Low Lynx volumes? I now have a Lynx. Never owned one before until a few months ago. The volumes seem high enough that Zaku was profitable with those requirements and numbers. I would really imagine that the retro scene would pay the extra $20 or so a unit to cover your costs and support you. And so would the Jaguar community.

 

The skunkboards first 3 runs top 400+ units out there. I know some people bought multiples. But that is not the majority. And now this new SillyVenture run has run out. And I know a few Jaguar owners who still do not have a skunkboard. Even with 400+ 'out there'. So that being said I'm almost positive everyone who bought a Skunkboard would buy a high powered release of the style Duranik would have made had they decided to go this route. And I know all those who did not buy a skunkboard because they just didnt seem to be interested in an upload solution and are kinda content burning .abs CD copies of some things WOULD buy a high powered Duranik caliber release.

 

So by my estimation that is 400+ possible sales for a monster ass Jaguar release.

 

But not really aimed at Duranik anymore but any future game developer considering the Jaguar. Hopefully they consider all these points in this thread. The yay's and the nay's.

 

I think this was a good thread. Nice healthy debate.

Edited March 15, 2015 by JagChris

[108 Stars]

 

 

Low Lynx volumes? I now have a Lynx. Never owned one before until a few months ago. The volumes seem high enough that Zaku was profitable with those requirements and numbers. I would really imagine that the retro scene would pay the extra $20 or so a unit to cover your costs and support you. And so would the Jaguar community.

In the case of Alpine Games, please remember that many fans already bought it when it was first released in 2004, and I believe there was a second run also. So the number of copies of Alpine Games that you can still expect to sell is not as big as it would be for an all new game.

[JagChris]

In the case of Alpine Games, please remember that many fans already bought it when it was first released in 2004, and I believe there was a second run also. So the number of copies of Alpine Games that you can still expect to sell is not as big as it would be for an all new game.

 

Good point. Proven numbers.

 

Unproven numbers though is how many new owners, like me are now available as potential customers. Unfortunately I don't really like those type of games though in fairness I haven't really tried it.

[82-T/A]

Ok... just have to comment here about Impulse X and the comparisons I've seen to Breakout and Arkanoid.

 

Impulse-X is, at least in my opinion, WAY better than Breakout, and while Arkanoid is clearly the basis and idea for Impulse-X... Impulse-X is just better in graphics, sound, etc.

 

 

I don't know how anyone can say that Impulse-X isn't one of the better Jaguar games.

[+LS650]

It's enjoyable - but to be honest, I consider it only a good game, not a great one. That combined with the fact that it's not _exactly_ a graphics showcase for the Jaguar leaves me with mild feelings for it.

[Sapicco]

Just bought impulse x from 16/32!

Never mind. There stock isn't up to date, so looks like I won't be getting this.

[JagChris]

Since I now live in Portland Oregon which appears to be the retro gaming mecca of the US I have met a few Jaguar owners at swap meets etc. And I think I am the only one in the Portland area I have met who owns a skunkboard. I think when I met KevMos a couple months ago he was in the process of getting one.

 

They were all interested in straight gaming. Buying copies of JagDoom, MC3D, snapping up the Telegames titles. Pure gaming. No upload solutions. Even with 400+ skunkboards floating around and the SillyVenture run nearing it's apparently successful end at that time none of these guys owned one. So there definitely seems to be untapped sales there.

Edited March 15, 2015 by JagChris

[JagChris]

Never mind. There stock isn't up to date, so looks like I won't be getting this.

 

And another potential Impulse X sale right here.

[sh3-rg]

and not our place to decide for Duranik.

 

I'm not here to decide anything for anyone.

 

ou have given your input and the advice you felt you had to make for Duranik's sake, and I have made my point. It's obvious we are very far from each other in our opinion on the matter, and that is fine.

 

Nope, I have offered my opinion as a counter to what I saw as an unrealistic message put forward by JagChris: "IMO there is no existing yardstick in the Jaguar community to measure what it's success might be. Out of This World I don't believe is adequate", because I saw first hand people who do not own Jaguar buying the game just to have it, therefore it reached sales beyond reasonable and sensible expectations. That and then your overly-optimistic figures with nothing based in solid fact or science to back them up.

 

I just felt that since I wholeheartedly believe what I wrote

 

But yours is a belief based on what? Warm fuzzy feelings? You can just feel it in your bones? there's 100s of people out there desperate to throw money at Jaguar games because... just because?

 

Mine is based on seeing games sell on Jaguar over a number of years, being a part of that process, investing 1000s of my own cash at times to make things happen, seeing people move on and new people appear and a few regulars who were there well before I ever turned up and will be here long after I've sacked it all off for something else.

 

Duranik will decide for themselves, if they haven't done so already.

 

Well of course they will. I repeat, I'm not here to tell anyone what to think or what to do, only offering what I think and have seen first hand, based on my experience at the boring end of game production. There's probably only Carl and Nick here who have sold more Jaguar games than I have, so I kind of do have some experience in that side of things. Knowing the difference between what might be reasonable to expect and fanboy wishful thinking and reasoning.

[108 Stars]

Kevin, it is enough. I don't want to argue with you. I do not base my advice on a warm fuzzy feeling, but on my experience with retro gaming. You base your whole idea of sales on the lackluster way Jag games are usually sold, and that makes as little sense to me as my thoughts obviously make to you. Your experience with how Jag games usually sell is not worth a whole lot in my eyes for a game of the size Duranik usually offers, seeing the terrible marketing most Jag games received and the relatively low production values. Nothing close to Sturmwind has ever been released as far as the total package of both gameplay and technical brilliance goes. I know you prefer to do small games that actually get finished and are fun; and that's fine. But those kind of games are no indication for an AAA title's potential. Neither are Breakout variants or Another World. I've said it before and I repeat it: the way they are usually sold is completely under the radar. of most people interested in old game systems.

 

Imo, your way of thinking is based on an overly pessimistic idea to not aim for anything above average, and with that attitude, nothing will ever come out of it. Maybe you have been too stuck in the confines of the Jag community, but how you see the retro gaming community appears far removed from reality to me.

 

You mustn't like my opinion, but yeah, I find yours on this matter as unbased and absurd as you do mine.

Edited March 15, 2015 by 108 Stars

[JagChris]

The more I think about this the more the evidence seems to support 108 stars line of thinking. Even with 400+ of the original 3 runs of Skunkboards out there people were still popping up going OMG where can I get a skunkboard! And the boards considered being hard to come by even with that number of them floating around.

 

And even with the SillyVenture boards selling briskly someone a few posts/threads ago made this comment regarding them:

 

 

There's apparently no shortage of people to buy them so far - that's a really good thing, the more people that end up owning them, the more chance we have of seeing new stuff appear and the active Jaguar fan base widening.

 

So as a fair and IMO a VERY generous estimate let's remove the SillyVenture numbers out of the equation and say those removed numbers cover the 'multiples' of skunkboards being bought by single parties.

 

That still leaves 400+ sales. OVER FOUR HUNDRED units sold. So I now think very much so that 108 stars thoughts on the potential sales numbers is correct. And he's not even a big Jaguar fan and has probably the most experience around here with a successful commercial after market release.

Edited March 15, 2015 by JagChris