Assorted hard disk questions

[31336haxx0r]

Hey folks, I have some questions.

 

1. Is it correct that only TOS versions 2.06 and above auto-boot from hard disks?

 

2. I remember some German ST magazine ("ST-Computer"? "c't"?) had some sort of guide on how to modify an SH205 to accept off the shelf SCSI hard disks. So apparently it is possible? Any hints on how to do that?

 

Thanks in advance!

[moulinaie]

Hey folks, I have some questions.

 

1. Is it correct that only TOS versions 2.06 and above auto-boot from hard disks?

 

 

No, it's not true.

I have a STE with TOS 1.6 (or 1.4??) that boots from a hard disk with no problem.

Guillaume.

[+DarkLord]

If its an STe, then it would be TOS 1.60 or 1.62, AFAIK.

 

Just about any version of TOS will allow you to boot up from a hard drive. You

would want to use at least TOS 1.04 though. Its faster, more reliable, much less

likely to experience data loss.

 

Not sure about the SH205 in particular, but you can use most SCSI hard drives,

with the appropriate driver (such as Uwe Seimets HDDriver), with most interfaces,

such as the Link, Link2, ADscsi's, Link97. What you will be limited to is the size you

can access on each drive, depending on the interface and TOS version. For example,

you might use a 10gig hard drive, but the Atari will only "see" the first gig on it.

 

Other than that, it works great. I've got a 4 gig SCSI drive on my TOS 1.04 Mega ST4

with the Link2, and it sees all of it.

 

HTHs.

[31336haxx0r]

So I just slap that old SH205 on any ST with a TOS version of at least 1.6 and it will recognize the HDD and boot from it?

[moulinaie]

So I just slap that old SH205 on any ST with a TOS version of at least 1.6 and it will recognize the HDD and boot from it?

 

You'll need a driver installed on the HD!

AHDI is free and from Atari, wil be enough for an old SH205.

 

Guillaume.

[31336haxx0r]

This is what I need to know! Thanks!

[Charlie_]

You can get AHDI on the language disks here: http://www.atari.org/services/systemdisks.php

[+DarkLord]

Again, just about any TOS version will boot up. It doesn't have to be TOS 1.6 and up.

 

TOS 1.02 and TOS 1.04 will work as well, but I wouldn't want less than TOS 1.04 on a

mass storage device because its more reliable.

 

You can get Atari's HD driver software AHDI, as well as ICD Pro software from the

internet, for free. HDDriver (the best, IMHO) is commercial and will cost you.

 

Just out of curiosity, have you tried just hooking up the SH205 to an ST and using it?

There's a fair chance that some sort of driver software is already on it. Don't forget

the power up order. Turn the SH205 on first....wait a minute...then turn on the ST.

 

HTHs.

[31336haxx0r]

I hooked up the SH205 to a MegaST and it worked, but only when booting from the SH205 driver disk. On an STE and STF it did nothing.

[Zogging Hell]

Again, just about any TOS version will boot up. It doesn't have to be TOS 1.6 and up.

 

TOS 1.02 and TOS 1.04 will work as well, but I wouldn't want less than TOS 1.04 on a

mass storage device because its more reliable.

 

You can get Atari's HD driver software AHDI, as well as ICD Pro software from the

internet, for free. HDDriver (the best, IMHO) is commercial and will cost you.

 

Just out of curiosity, have you tried just hooking up the SH205 to an ST and using it?

There's a fair chance that some sort of driver software is already on it. Don't forget

the power up order. Turn the SH205 on first....wait a minute...then turn on the ST.

 

HTHs.

 

Got to take issue with the TOS 1.02 being unreliable with hard disks...

 

I've used 1.02 with hard disks for years and have had no more data problems than with 1.04. TOS 1.02 fixed most of the serious problems of TOS 1.00 with hard disks (iirc 1.00 was programmed before there was a hard disk available). The main problem is speed. TOS 1.02 (and earlier) are very slow at accessing/ writing. This can be can be solved with HD Driver and using a utility like Pinhead or Fatspeed (which is basically the modification that eventually got used to make 1.04 'better'). You also need to use the foldrxxx.prg, but then you still need that with 1.04.

[Zogging Hell]

I hooked up the SH205 to a MegaST and it worked, but only when booting from the SH205 driver disk. On an STE and STF it did nothing.

 

Odd, did you try resetting the ST a few times and seeing if that worked? I did have a syquest drive that needed a reset before it was recognised. Also what TOS version is the Mega using? If it's 2.06 could be that the partition on the hard drive is too large for the other STs to see (with that particular driver software). Unlikely though. Does the driver even start to boot the disk or is it not even seen at all?

[31336haxx0r]

I switched the HDD on before all the STs I tested it on and waited until the drive speed appeared stable before switching on the computer. Reset didn't help, either. Is it possible to install a bigger HDD in a SH205? I don't think so, as it's that old ST506 stuff. The MegaST uses TOS 10.2 AFAIK, just as the STF. The STE should have at least TOS 1.06, haven't checked that yet. I also didn't have a look at the STE's DMA chip yet.

[+DarkLord]

 

Got to take issue with the TOS 1.02 being unreliable with hard disks...

 

 

Actually, I never said that TOS 1.02 was unreliable with hard disks. I said that I

wouldn't want less than TOS 1.04 because its more reliable, and the statement

was actually made in reference to all previous versions. I know it seems like

splitting hairs, but there is a difference.

 

But to each their own - if you're happy and comfortable with TOS 1.02 then by

all means, run with it. I personally wouldn't want to use less than TOS 1.04 on

mass storage devices, but that's just me. YMMV.

 

[Zogging Hell]

Got to take issue with the TOS 1.02 being unreliable with hard disks...

 

 

Actually, I never said that TOS 1.02 was unreliable with hard disks. I said that I

wouldn't want less than TOS 1.04 because its more reliable, and the statement

was actually made in reference to all previous versions. I know it seems like

splitting hairs, but there is a difference.

 

But to each their own - if you're happy and comfortable with TOS 1.02 then by

all means, run with it. I personally wouldn't want to use less than TOS 1.04 on

mass storage devices, but that's just me. YMMV.

 

 

He he no absolutely, was not having a dig! I am curious as to why you think 1.02 is less reliable though, (1.00 fair enough), have you had some bad experiences?

[Zogging Hell]

I switched the HDD on before all the STs I tested it on and waited until the drive speed appeared stable before switching on the computer. Reset didn't help, either. Is it possible to install a bigger HDD in a SH205? I don't think so, as it's that old ST506 stuff. The MegaST uses TOS 10.2 AFAIK, just as the STF. The STE should have at least TOS 1.06, haven't checked that yet. I also didn't have a look at the STE's DMA chip yet.

 

Hhhmm weird. Maybe try installing the HD Driver demo version ( http://www.seimet.de/atari/files/hddriver84_demo.zip ) (which is a fully working driver with a demo of the rest of the package) on a floppy disk and try autobooting it from floppy. If you have a floppy back up of the driver software you are using search the C:/ drive (on the Mega) for the *.sys file relating to your hard disk driver on the root directory disk and try deleting it. It may be the driver has a weird configuration for a Mega ST or a certain computer and it won't work with the plain vanilla ST and STe (how much memory have they got by the way, and how much has the Mega got?).

[+DarkLord]

He he no absolutely, was not having a dig! I am curious as to why you think 1.02 is less reliable though, (1.00 fair enough), have you had some bad experiences?

 

Early on, when I was running my BBS in the 90's, I used 2 Megafile hard drives, a 30 and a 60. I had some data loss, running under 1.02. Now to be fair and honest, the Megafiles were getting rather long in the tooth, and I did replace them, as well as upgrade to TOS 1.04 so it could easily have been the hard drives just getting flaky.

 

But since upgrading TOS to 1.04 was just a drop in replacement, I never looked back, and didn't keep the Megafiles to see if I still had problems.

 

That's about it.

[Zogging Hell]

He he no absolutely, was not having a dig! I am curious as to why you think 1.02 is less reliable though, (1.00 fair enough), have you had some bad experiences?

 

Early on, when I was running my BBS in the 90's, I used 2 Megafile hard drives, a 30 and a 60. I had some data loss, running under 1.02. Now to be fair and honest, the Megafiles were getting rather long in the tooth, and I did replace them, as well as upgrade to TOS 1.04 so it could easily have been the hard drives just getting flaky.

 

But since upgrading TOS to 1.04 was just a drop in replacement, I never looked back, and didn't keep the Megafiles to see if I still had problems.

 

That's about it.

 

Ah fair enough, I have a bit of a flakey Megafile and appreciate that. It has one or two bad sector that I've marked, and a third one that occasionally gets marked as bad by chkdisk. If I ignore it no probs (no data loss or corruption) but if I try and use diamond edge to mark it, the entire disk comes up as bad sectors. Re-format and it's fine, with just the two/ three bad sectors. They is weird hard disks!

[jens]

Heya.

Got to take issue with the TOS 1.02 being unreliable with hard disks...

Actually, I never said that TOS 1.02 was unreliable with hard disks. I said that I

wouldn't want less than TOS 1.04 because its more reliable, and the statement

was actually made in reference to all previous versions. I know it seems like

splitting hairs, but there is a difference.

I don't believe TOS 1.04 to be more reliable than TOS 1.02, but the disk I/O is faster.

From TOS 1.00 to 1.02, and finally to 1.04/ 1.06 TOS has greatly improved regarding disk access.

TOS 1.04 is about as fast accessing a floppy as TOS 1.00 is accessing a megafile.

 

I'd be curious to see if MiNT cures this or not, as it sits atop TOS, either replacing or adding routines and features.

[Zogging Hell]

Heya.

Got to take issue with the TOS 1.02 being unreliable with hard disks...

Actually, I never said that TOS 1.02 was unreliable with hard disks. I said that I

wouldn't want less than TOS 1.04 because its more reliable, and the statement

was actually made in reference to all previous versions. I know it seems like

splitting hairs, but there is a difference.

I don't believe TOS 1.04 to be more reliable than TOS 1.02, but the disk I/O is faster.

From TOS 1.00 to 1.02, and finally to 1.04/ 1.06 TOS has greatly improved regarding disk access.

TOS 1.04 is about as fast accessing a floppy as TOS 1.00 is accessing a megafile.

 

I'd be curious to see if MiNT cures this or not, as it sits atop TOS, either replacing or adding routines and features.

 

Using Pinhead and HD Driver makes 1.02 as fast as 1.04 in terms of disk access in my experience. The final version of Pinhead is actually faster than the routines in TOS 1.04 (which were based on it in the first place), so it is worth using even with that version. Magic definitely cures the problem as well. Not tried Mint on an ST as it is way to resource hungry!

[jens]

I'll try CrippleMiNT on a 1040 STf with four megs of RAM and TOS 1.00/ 2.06 switch.

Can't say when I'll give it a go though.