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davyK

PAL60 ROMS

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Okay, here is a PAL60 conversion. I think I got most of the colors, but I'm not sure if all of the colors I identified are actually color bytes. Bytes from $DFE7-DFEB are I marked as colors, but it could also be garbage data. I just took a best guess.

 

 

The color of the field is not easy to convert to the more limited PAL color palette. I reused some colors and darkened them to keep a gradient. Hope it works!! ;)

 

post-7074-0-29816200-1437622407_thumb.png

 

Battlezone(PAL60).zip

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Thanks alot OMEGAMATRIX for having a look on this game! :)

 

The sky is very good in both versions, in Omegamatrix and also in Thomas one. Looks like the original.

 

The ground seems to be difficult to realize, many color-gradients are there and when one color is not perfect, it goes like a aftereffect also through the next gradient.

 

Omegamatrix, you wrote earlier in this thread that your are colorblind to some colors, therefore i made two screenshots, one of the NTSC and one of the new PAL60 and tried to explain the differences with arrows to the colors. Maybe a little bit confusing, but i hope it can help to make the colors more like the NTSC original.

 

This is no criticism, you did good job, this is just for making it closer to the original, because in some of the ground color-gradients the two used colors are too fare apart and must be more similar in the PAL60 version. Otherwise the gradient-effect looks not good and the stripes can be seen to strong.

 

post-41260-0-65603400-1437693615_thumb.png

Edited by AW127

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Thanks alot OMEGAMATRIX for having a look on this game! :)

 

The sky is very good in both versions, in Omegamatrix and also in Thomas one. Looks like the original.

 

The ground seems to be difficult to realize, many color-gradients are there and when one color is not perfect, it goes like a aftereffect also through the next gradient.

 

Omegamatrix, you wrote earlier in this thread that your are colorblind to some colors, therefore i made two screenshots, one of the NTSC and one of the new PAL60 and tried to explain the differences with arrows to the colors. Maybe a little bit confusing, but i hope it can help to make the colors more like the NTSC original.

 

This is no criticism, you did good job, this is just for making it closer to the original, because in some of the ground color-gradients the two used colors are too fare apart and must be more similar in the PAL60 version. Otherwise the gradient-effect looks not good and the stripes can be seen to strong.

 

attachicon.gifBilder.png

Whoa, that's a lot of notes! ;)

 

 

Really thanks though. I don't see it as criticism. The main problem with the ground is the NTSC version used colors that are not available in the PAL palette. I will post a new rom but it might take some tinkering to get it more close.

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The (darker) grays seem generally a bit darker in PAL, so the brightness has to be upped by one notch.

 

The PAL colors are a bit more limited (especially in the green/brown and yellow area). Also the colors are all different, so you will never find an exact match. Therefore, when it comes to gradients and mixing colors, after a broad conversions, you have to manually adjust the colors until they fit together on the screen.

 

Colorblindness doesn't really help here. :)

 

Here you can compare the differences.

Edited by Thomas Jentzsch

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The greys were no problem to increase. The field is still terrible due to the missing greens, like you said. Also, the green of the Tank is washed out compared to NTSC. It is already as dark as it can go. I've been playing around with its color too. :)

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I played around with a painting-program and the pictures of NTSC and PAL60 version of Battlezone. Really difficult to adjust the green-colors in a way that they are similar to the NTSC-original.

 

As a suggestion i have two pictures here.

 

In the first picture you see the NTSC-pic on the left and PAL60 on the right. In my opinion some of the colors would be close, when the three gradients which i marked, would change the place in the PAL60 version. These colors should move to where the arrows go, every gradient should move to the next gradient to look similar to the NTSC-version.

 

post-41260-0-58761000-1437772571_thumb.png

 

 

As a second suggestion, i have here picture-2. Where i marked the gradient with the white marker and the letter "1", this gradient must go, i mean the gradient which contains two colors must be replaced by only one color. This is because there is nearly no chance to make it good looking here, because of some missing green-notes in the PAL-palette. I tried around alot, but the stripes would be to strong to look good. So i suggest, to make here no gradient of two colors, but rather use only one green-color and this is the same green-color like the beginning of the ground has below (the green which is beside the chains of the tank).

 

The other colors that i suggest after playing around in paint-program, are marked with red lines.

 

post-41260-0-37439000-1437772621_thumb.png

 

 

The three grey colors, which are:

 

- (mountains in front / gun of the tank / color-1 of the chains)

- (mountains behind)

- (color-2 of chains)

 

must all be one step brighter, like Thomas wrote before.

 

The two green-colors of the tank, must stay like they are. First i thought, they must be one step darker, but this then dont work with the green-colors of the ground. Then it looks not good in combination to the ground. So best is, these two colors stay like they are in the PAL60 version now, even when they are little bit brighter than in the NTSC-original.

Edited by AW127

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The tank now is very good and also the gray in the mountains. :) Only the ground looks not so good, because this brown stripes can be seen to strong. This brown color is to strong and one color, which is a dark green in original, here is a brown note. This is a problem because of missing green-colors in Pal-Palette.

 

But I think, the ground colors would look good, if you take your first attempt (ver1) and change always the colors of this "two colors gradients" to the next "two colors gradients", like i painted it in Pic-1 of my last entry. They really look close, they are only shifted. And for the "two colors" where the white [1] is written in Pic-2, it would maybe the best, to only use one green-color (the same green like below besides the tank-chains). I tried around alot in a paint-programm and could not find another PAL-color which looks like in the NTSC-version, but using only one green color here, comes close.

 

You wrote you`re done. That`s sad, i dont know where to find the correct color-values now. Maybe Thomas could have a look then and fix the rest of the colors. Most colors are good now, only a few in the ground are missing, than its perfect. Would be sad, if it would end now here with that brown stripes in the ground.

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Hi Thomas, sorry to burst your bubble, but on my set-up (S-video + CRT Commodore 1084S) all the gradients are looking great... save for the garrish red/brown tint on the "far grass".

It looks just really out of place, check this out.:

 

post-32895-0-07951900-1437940753_thumb.jpg

 

Impressive work either way, both of you.

An arms race for the perfect PAL Battlezone. ;)

Edited by Mef

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Here are a few more files to test, they only change nuances.

 

In V4 only the top is changed a bit, to solve Met's problem. V5 has the two greens swapped in the 4th striped section, hardly noticeable on TV. V6 made the top even more bright, but that's IMO too much. For me V5 looks best.

 

Please note that you best test on real hardware, since the PAL palette in Stella seems pretty off. Or try the z26 palette in Stella (the greens are much closer there).

 

BTW: Why is the cannon in all versions (incl. the original NTSC) shifted on pixel to the left?

Battlezone(PAL60_Ver4).bin

Battlezone(PAL60_Ver5).bin

Battlezone(PAL60_Ver6).bin

Edited by Thomas Jentzsch

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By writing and trying in PM`s, THOMAS and i tried lot`s of different colors for the ground in "Battlezone (PAL60)" by using OMEGAMATRIX V1-version as model. Then we speak about the results. Or to be more precise, THOMAS put the colors in the roms, i tried around with the colors in painting-programs.

 

In the end, our favorite on the real console is version "Ver5". But here is another version, that Thomas and i thought, it is not bad, it`s "Ver9". Looks good with the Stella standard-PAL-palette, i think. But looks not so good on my real Atari-console. Maybe this is different on other TV`s? Nevertheless for using in Stella, this V9 is an alternative to V5.

 

Battlezone(PAL60_Ver9).bin

 

Maybe some people could give a reaction, how V5 and V9 look on their hardware? Which color-versions of "Battlezone" you like most and which looks best on your TV-set at home? This would interest me.

 

The problem in this game is, that the NTSC-palette has lot more green-colors, so it`s nearly impossible to make the ground in the game look exactly like in the NTSC-original. But i think the end-results in V5 and V9 looks pretty good. If you compare this two versions to the original PAL50-version, then this here is far far far far far better. :) In the original PAL-version the most colors were gone.

 

Thanks to OMEGAMATRIX and THOMAS. We have now one good PAL60 version more.

Edited by AW127

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Thank you both. I'll try all of them next week, when I return from my vacations (forced to reply from mobile, I'm stuck in the wild, hehe).

 

One thing I didn't try yet - have to check these new and the previous versions on my unmodified Junior via RF. The values of resistors on my S-video mod might make a little difference, but the color (as in Chroma) isn't being mixed from sub-signals like Luminance, so it should be all down to adjusting the saturation on the receiver end and wouldn't have much of an impact I believe.

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Sorry for almost forgeting...

 

I've tested all the versions and my fav is v4. Not because of the likeness to NTSC, which I didn't care about that much, but because the palette looked the best.

There's less of that annoying reddish-brown than v5, and the whole blend in general feels better imho.

 

I've actually got reminded of this topic when learned about Sears-exclusive Submarine Commander.

Much to my pleasure - I've searched the forums and found the conversion by bataais.

 

Such a shame the game turned out to be a piece of crap when it comes to gameplay, it's very well designed gfx-wise and the whole "periscope view" idea was quite clever.

It's not the original game that I wanted to talk about, however, but the faulty port.

 

Turns out, I get the left torpedo stretch into a long line every once in a while, check this video I've made.:

 

 

 

It's played on a PAL Light Sixer via Harmony. To minimize the possibility of my set-up being faulty, I tested it on a '84 Junior as well, with identical results.

 

Anyone up for a fix?

:P

 

P.S. The gasp is my wife who was forced to rapidly press fire while I was recording. :D

Edited by Mef

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Has anyone created a PAL60 version of Megamania? Want to check before I start working on it myself...

Edited by davyK

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Has anyone created a PAL60 version of Megamania? Want to check before I start working on it myself...

I certainly haven't (wouldn't have a clue!). Can't say I've ever come across one either. :)

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Just disassembled the ROM and identified where the ship colour (p1) and the 1st wave enemy colour are in the ROM...this could take a wee while as the enemy colours change for each loop...I'm hoping they are all together in a table!!

 

This was one of my favourites back in the day - I rolled the score over several times (the game stops at 999999) so I'd looking forward to tackling it at full speed.

Edited by davyK

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Here's PAL60 Megamania.

 

The game benefits from a burst of speed and a larger image as per usual. With this one having PAL colours isn't really THAT important as the game is pretty surreal so this will be of value only to those who remember the PAL colour scheme. I haven't bothered with the colour of the bullets as it was pretty variable anyhow and isn't significant enough for me to bother with.

 

http://www.davykelly.com/Megamania_PAL60.bin

Edited by davyK

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Is it possible to develop a pal version for these Alien greed 1/2/3/4 ?

 

version NTSC : Aliens have a purple skin :(

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If any of the color-experts could have a look at the PAL (it`s already PAL60) version of the great new Gauntlet Hack, it would be perfect.

 

Look here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/238273-dark-chambers-to-gauntlet-conversion/page-5

 

Some colors in the PAL-version could need a better adaption. Especially the gray background is to dark and the exit is hard to see in some levels. Also some other colors, like the skin of the sprites looks little different to the NTSC-original. On the pictures i put in the thread this could be seen.

 

This is such a great hack, only the colors in the PAL-version could look better. Would be great if anybody could have a look at this rom.

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