Snider-man Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Looks like another Pandora's Box has been opened now. But, look what's at the bottom of the Box! "Hope." Yup, took two years of Mythology in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCroniger Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 This is depressing . First Hozer now this. Thank God we have AA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sku_u Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 This is depressing . First Hozer now this. Thank God we have AA Yep, all they're doing is killing the hobby and alienating the small amount of classic gaming collectors out there (who are coincidentally their main consumers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Ha! This has got to be one of the biggest jokes out there! They're trying to stop people from buying Magicard and Video Life, yet Sean is out there selling MultiCarts. "What about the Activision and Imagic ROMS you guys have on your site?" Grant you, you may not be selling them there.. but I know certain person out there who's selling MultiCarts. I wonder how much Activision makes off the sale of these. Hmmm... Looks like another Pandora's Box has been opened now. Ken, would you mind closing that box please, we would like to continue to have fun. Let Mark and Sean sort this out between themselfes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 I like tha h0t ch1x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cvo Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 This is depressing . First Hozer now this. Thank God we have AA Yep, all they're doing is killing the hobby and alienating the small amount of classic gaming collectors out there (who are coincidentally their main consumers). Are you blaming all this on AA? If so, that is a little misguided. Please clarify how AA is to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moycon Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 I don't believe anyone is blaming Atari Age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Ken, would you mind closing that box please, we would like to continue to have fun. Well, that's the problem with Pandora's Box. Once it's opened you can't close it anymore. AFAIK when a company becomes aware of copyright infringements it has to act against them else it would loose those copyrights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Ken, would you mind closing that box please, we would like to continue to have fun. Well, that's the problem with Pandora's Box. Once it's opened you can't close it anymore. AFAIK when a company becomes aware of copyright infringements it has to act against them else it would loose those copyrights. Not quite, Ken is a producer not a legal department head, he could keep his mouth shut (no offense Ken). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somePUNK Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 whaaaaaa....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 AFAIK when a company becomes aware of copyright infringements it has to act against them else it would loose those copyrights. This is not true with copyrights. What you are thinking of are trademarks, which have to be rigorously defended or they could be lost. ..Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoahsMyBro Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Albert - Your tagline - "Well, look at that, the sun's coming up..." looks awfully familiar. I suppose it could just be a regular old phrase, but is it from some movie? If so, which one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCroniger Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 This is depressing . First Hozer now this. Thank God we have AA Yep, all they're doing is killing the hobby and alienating the small amount of classic gaming collectors out there (who are coincidentally their main consumers). Are you blaming all this on AA? If so, that is a little misguided. Please clarify how AA is to blame. No, I'm not blaming AA. What I tried to convey is that we lost Hozer and if the DP guys get upset, maybe they'll quit too. I really enjoy thier site and book. Also, I was hoping that Mark D was going to make the adapter for his repro. That's probably smoked too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 And today:JOHN/SEAN: "PLease stop selling these Commvid carts. Though there is a question as to copyright issues and such, you should at least respect our input until this can be ironed out." MARK: "Screw you. Unless you can whip out a piece of paper saying otherwise, I'll do what I want." ATARI AGE MEMBERS: <<<<Not a friggin' peep.>>>> So, how's the rest of the board members feel about this? Or am I the only one fearing the rise of a sweltering case of hypocracy? I feel no hypocrisy on my part. I always assumed Mark had the legitimate right to publish CommaVid reproductions until now, and did not realize Sean and company were not involved in Sunmark in any way. Since I now know they're not, I won't purchase any CommaVid reproductions from Sunmark (though I was considering it). That simple. Of course for some people the temptation to own a Video Life may be too high to bear though, since it's not publically available from Sean's group and may not be for some time. What others decide to do is their own business and I won't make any moral judgments about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sku_u Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 This is depressing . First Hozer now this. Thank God we have AA Yep, all they're doing is killing the hobby and alienating the small amount of classic gaming collectors out there (who are coincidentally their main consumers). Are you blaming all this on AA? If so, that is a little misguided. Please clarify how AA is to blame. No, AA have been nothing but professional and courteous. I'm mostly blaming Mark & John for the public flame war which was not necessary at all and Ken Love for adding even more to an unnecessary controversy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 I'm mostly blaming Mark & John for the public flame war which was not necessary at all and Ken Love for adding even more to an unnecessary controversy. Didn't we just agree to stop blaming each other? Or was that only valid for another thread? Please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Personally...I blame the cat. No kitty...it's MY potpie! BAD KITTY!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cx2k Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 Just when things were dying down here comes Ken... "What about the Activision and Imagic ROMS you guys have on your site?" Ken, neither Sean nor myself has any Activision or Imagic roms on our web-sites. You can check for yourself.... http://www.pipeline.com/~jhardie http://www.xnet.com/~skelly Now if you're referring to the Digital Press web-site, I suggest you take your beef up with the owner of that site, Joe Santulli. Sean and I have nothing to do with the Digital Press web-site. On-top of that, Mr. Kelly is selling MultiCarts with OUR material on them. "How much of that do you think we actually see?" I can't speak too much for Sean about these because he was making them long before I met him and will probably have his wife making them long after he and I are deceased. The only thing I have to ask is did you ask Sean to remove the roms from his multi-cart? Telegames did and he complied immediately. Now I have a question for you Ken. When we first spoke on the phone at the beginning of the Anthology project, you informed me that "Activision DID NOT own the rights to the Imagic games" and that it was some sort of licensing deal that enabled them to re-release those games back in the day. Have you found documentation that says otherwise or were you able to again license the three Imagic titles on the compilation? If not, are we to assume that Activision has just released a multi-rom software program containing works which it has no rights to publish? Sounds familiar... One last thing, we never saw a response to your cryptic message in another thread... The protos roms will see the light of day, shortly.. but probably not until the Digital Press guys release more of their unreleased findings to the community. Scott Stilphen asked you repeatedly what you meant and both he and Joe Santulli emailed you to find out what's going on. Can you please tell us what you're talking about Ken? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cupcakus Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 I don't think that last post was very wise :-) I think Ken has more power then to just ask you to stop... Relax and think before you post things like this or things may get infinetly worse for you... I understand you're upset... I would be too... but don't kill yourself :-) You can still do good for the community. Sean and I have nothing to do with the Digital Press web-site. Digital Press Complete lists for nearly every US game console ever released, from Odyssey to Dreamcast NOW ONLINE & FREE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 Have you found documentation that says otherwise or were you able to again license the three Imagic titles on the compilation? If not, are we to assume that Activision has just released a multi-rom software program containing works which it has no rights to publish? Sounds familiar... Ouch. Then again, it would be worthwhile to know exactly what Activision has the rights to, or not. Sometimes I feel like a spectator at a poker game on these boards, with the players being fans of old video games on one side and the producers of remakes and compilations the other side. Each wants us to think they have the better hand, and without seeing the cards we really don't know who is bluffing and who isn't. Enough ante up, somebody call - I think we need to see those cards. Ken knows my feelings on this, because I sent him a PM about it, but for the record I think that emulation legitimately benefits the owners of copyrights for "retro" game systems. Emulation drives up interest in these games, it increases the value of the properties, and since it's not sold for profit it clearly isn't intended to bilk the owners out of any money. That doesn't include Sean's products though. I don't know if he makes a profit on them or not, I can't say. What I can say is that we all know (Ken included) that Activision isn't about to find a pressing plant in Taiwan and start mass producing new cart runs for classic systems. I won't argue what Sean does is "legal" because I'm not that foolish - just that hobbyists appreciate being given the chance to play these games in their PROPER form on an old school console. If Activision was bold enough they would license the right to make multi-carts to someone like Sean and make the profit they are rightly due from it, but (and no offense Ken) it seems like the owners of old copyrights for games are more interested in squashing it because they can than releasing them because they'd sell. It's depressing, really. The supreme court has just upheld by a 7-2 decision the fact that copyright ownership has been extended for another 20 years, making things that just last year were public domain off limits again. The constitution never intended these rights to exist in perpetuity but for all intents and purposes they do now. If you write a game and license a company to sell it you can expect that long past your own natural lifetime they will still own and zealously enforce that copyright. That doesn't seem natural. I'm the kind of man who believes that people have a right to information, to knowledge, to media. Corporations eat up those rights not because they have our best interests at heart, but simply because they want to sell us our inherents rights back for profit and if we can't afford it we don't deserve the information at all. The more profit they make, the bigger they get, the more power and influence they have, the more rights we lose. To quote Nine Inch Nails it's a downward spiral. The protos roms will see the light of day, shortly.. but probably not until the Digital Press guys release more of their unreleased findings to the community. Scott Stilphen asked you repeatedly what you meant and both he and Joe Santulli emailed you to find out what's going on. Can you please tell us what you're talking about Ken? John I'd like to know myself. I honestly doubt we'll ever really get to see those prototypes now unless somebody steals the cartridges and dumps them on the net (tsk tsk) but if there's a corporate interest in keeping it out of our hands I'd rather hear the honest truth of that instead of excuses; not that I would accuse Ken of making them (he seems to be a very honest and upstanding man) but I would say we don't have the facts and not much light is being shed on them at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mos6507 Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 I agree with you, Glenn.But... the point is "They're going 'round trying to stop people from making these, yet they have OUR property available for D/L on their site." On-top of that, Mr. Kelly is selling MultiCarts with OUR material on them. "How much of that do you think we actually see?" I wonder how much of that Mr. Kelly see's. Same with his Commercial videos. I wonder What Activision and Imagic commercials are on those. Then sic the lawyers on them like you did with Hozer. I find it ironic that these multicarts and repros were going on under the noses of Hasbro themselves who were sponsoring CGE. If that doesn't smell of silence = consent I don't know what does. I like to see consistency in corporate conduct where classic copyrights are concerned. Selective enforcement only encourages more abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 I like to see consistency in corporate conduct where classic copyrights are concerned. Selective enforcement only encourages more abuse. Three copyright carts go round the outside. Round the outside, round the outside... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 ...Three copyright carts go round the outside, and dance by the light of the moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raindog Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 I feel pretty hypocrisy free because my opinion is the same now as it was during the Hozer thing, and that is.... When did you all grow vaginas, anyway? It's like high school in here all of a sudden. Take off your whiny bitch colored glasses and get back to writing or producing games, or selling them on ebay if that's your trip. This is a rather inbred hobby centered around the nostalgia of a bunch of slightly maladjusted but fairly well off thirty- and fortysomething men, not Silicon Valley garage dwellers circa 1980. You are just not going to become the next Bill Gates by doing this, and when they write the erroneous footnote in the video game archaeology textbooks in a hundred years indicating that the first console was technically the 2600, not the NES, neither your name nor mine will be included, just some guy named "Nathan Bushel". Further, it really doesn't amount to a speck of flyshit who owns what copyrights because not one of you has the stones, cash or time off from your day jobs to actually sue another of you, save for Activision (and perhaps Infogrames) who have the legal team sitting with their thumbs up their asses all day looking for something to do. It costs real time and money to sue someone and this hobby just doesn't pull that much in, and of course there's always the danger of "he who lives by the C&D shall die by the C&D". Throw in the fact that we're scattered from Massachusetts to Tasmania and it's more than a little embarassing to even consider. Once you remove the likelihood of actual legal action, it comes down to ethics, and many people here have never subscribed to the whole imaginary property thing. So then it all comes down to politics - you make a polite request of the offender, and if he doesn't acquiesce, you carry on a PR campaign against him (or let other people do it for you.) Then it's your reputation against his, pure and simple. Last time it was pretty clear who had the better reputation from the get go. This time.... does anyone even give a crap? If the party of the first part is really serious about making the party of the second part his bitch, the party of the first part should pay his lawyer to write up a big ol' nasty cease and desist letter and then stuff his monster dick back into his trousers of the first part. If the party of the second part is really not afraid of his daddy of the first part, he needs to continue doing what he's doing and not put his poop-stained underwear of the second part up here on Atariage for us to admire. Like I even want to see either of those two games ever again now. Just..... grow..... up. Please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cupcakus Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 his poop-stained underwear of the second part up here on Atariage for us to admire. Please. Ask and ye shall recieve... Lets a lighten up a bit? This is all over Video Life and Magicard for crying out loud... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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