Is Colecovision the best supported vintage format?

[+Ransom]

That's a concept I've carried forward since I first encountered the novel "La Disparition", anyway.

 

You talk about the roman of Georges Perec ? It is a very interresting book , It is an incredible we can write a full story with that constraint. However it is a little hard to read i found.

 

It's been decades since I read it, but as I recall it was indeed a little hard to read. As you say, though, it's still an incredible achievement.

[RelliK111]

A question about the CV homebrews...are the majority of the more flashy games (Mario Bros, for instance) actually programmed from scratch? I always thought they were modified hacks from other computers that ran the same language (the Z80 thing, I'm not up to speed on that kinda thing).

 

The feeling I get about the CV hacks are that they are more or less ports from game systems or computers...I really do like the packaging though, very legit looking! CV was my very first system from way back and I always have a soft spot for it, but some of the homebrews are, well...not my cup o' tea. I'm really interested in this new controller, though...and the whole Super Expansion Module project, very cool.

 

"CV hacks" Ouch.... I really don't think you would think that if you knew how much work, money, time, and effort went to the games that you see and play. Have you mostly just played free roms on the Internet or have you bought and played the games that Collectorvision, Pixelboy, or Opcode have made and sold? Almost all of those games aren't available in rom form with just a few exceptions. When I think of hacks I mostly think of messed up mario bros hacked roms like afro bros that people would never dream of charging a penny for. I would never dream of calling any of the released Colecovision homebrew games "hacks", to me that just sounds insulting even though I'm sure that wasn't what you meant or intended. To be honest I think the word "homebrew" doesn't really even do these games justice as most of the homebrews are even better than a lot of Colecovision games that where released in the 80s. I honestly feel like the games that are made for the Colecovision now are official games that add to the already amazing Colecovision library(although I may be alone in that feeling but that is the way I do feel). I don't see why time(when the game was made) would have anything to do with how "legit" a game is. In fact I'm really not a fan of the name "homebrew" but I just use it sometimes because thats the name everyone uses to describe new games for retro systems. To me its all retro gaming and just as games like DK, River Raid, and many other bring back lots of Nostalgia and are a ton of fun to play, I get the same feeling when I play amazing games like Pacman, Mario Bros, and so many others. I enjoy those games more because I can play them on my Colecovision(my favorite system) when I was never able to before. I'm sure in 10+ years I feel Nostalgia for games that I haven't played before I started playing them as homebrews with games like Mr Chin, Ghost n Zombies, Jeepers Creepers, Sky Jaguar, A.E, plus so many others the list would go on and on, and most importantly they are a ton of fun to play. Plus its fun to play these games with my kids, as they have all the new modern systems, but always come to me and ask to play the Colecovision with me, and nine times out of ten they choose homebrew games to play. So I'm sure when they grow up they'll look at the Colecovision and "homebrew" as nostalgia official games as they are all just fun games to them. They don't say "dad I want to play a homebrew game" they say "dad I want to play Mr Chin or Ghost n Zombies"

 

Just my thoughts and feelings about it, and I'm not saying I'm right and your wrong by any means so please don't take it like that. I just think you should come over and play some homebrew games thats all, as I'm sure one kick a*s night of playing homebrews and drinking brews(I'm assuming your over 21 right ) would definitely change some of those thoughts about Colecovision homebrews

Edited April 6, 2012 by RelliK111

[65Gamerguy]

A question about the CV homebrews...are the majority of the more flashy games (Mario Bros, for instance) actually programmed from scratch? I always thought they were modified hacks from other computers that ran the same language (the Z80 thing, I'm not up to speed on that kinda thing).

 

The feeling I get about the CV hacks are that they are more or less ports from game systems or computers...I really do like the packaging though, very legit looking! CV was my very first system from way back and I always have a soft spot for it, but some of the homebrews are, well...not my cup o' tea. I'm really interested in this new controller, though...and the whole Super Expansion Module project, very cool.

 

"CV hacks" Ouch.... I really don't think you would think that if you knew how much work, money, time, and effort went to the games that you see and play. Have you mostly just played free roms on the Internet or have you bought and played the games that Collectorvision, Pixelboy, or Opcode have made and sold? Almost all of those games aren't available in rom form with just a few exceptions. When I think of hacks I mostly think of messed up mario bros hacked roms like afro bros that people would never dream of charging a penny for. I would never dream of calling any of the released Colecovision homebrew games "hacks", to me that just sounds insulting even though I'm sure that wasn't what you meant or intended. To be honest I think the word "homebrew" doesn't really even do these games justice as most of the homebrews are even better than a lot of Colecovision games that where released in the 80s. I honestly feel like the games that are made for the Colecovision now are official games that add to the already amazing Colecovision library(although I may be alone in that feeling but that is the way I do feel). I don't see why time(when the game was made) would have anything to do with how "legit" a game is. In fact I'm really not a fan of the name "homebrew" but I just use it sometimes because thats the name everyone uses to describe new games for retro systems. To me its all retro gaming and just as games like DK, River Raid, and many other bring back lots of Nostalgia and are a ton of fun to play, I get the same feeling when I play amazing games like Pacman, Mario Bros, and so many others. I enjoy those games more because I can play them on my Colecovision(my favorite system) when I was never able to before. I'm sure in 10+ years I feel Nostalgia for games that I haven't played before I started playing them as homebrews with games like Mr Chin, Ghost n Zombies, Jeepers Creepers, Sky Jaguar, A.E, plus so many others the list would go on and on, and most importantly they are a ton of fun to play. Plus its fun to play these games with my kids, as they have all the new modern systems, but always come to me and ask to play the Colecovision with me, and nine times out of ten they choose homebrew games to play. So I'm sure when they grow up they'll look at the Colecovision and "homebrew" as nostalgia official games as they are all just fun games to them. They don't say "dad I want to play a homebrew game" they say "dad I want to play Mr Chin or Ghost n Zombies"

 

Just my thoughts and feelings about it, and I'm not saying I'm right and your wrong by any means so please don't take it like that. I just think you should come over and play some homebrew games thats all, as I'm sure one kick a*s night of playing homebrews and drinking brews(I'm assuming your over 21 right ) would definitely change some of those thoughts about Colecovision homebrews

 

I agree 100%. And I would like to say that technically the people that make these games are professional if you go by the definition of the word. I am paraphrasing here but if I recall a professional is, by definition, someone who has great skill at something and another defintion is someone who gets paid to do something. So in that case we have several ColecoVision PROFESSIONALS here. And all of them in my opinion do incredible work.

Edited April 6, 2012 by 65Gamerguy

[atarilovesyou]

Gentlemen, I didn't mean to piss you off. I could have written it a bit more clearly:

 

My term 'hack' was not used as in "what a hack, an amateur". I wasn't referring to the programmers at all.

 

I meant hack as in a 'hacked' game, something that was on another format but was hacked to be played on different software. I'm not a programmer but I think that the process of hacking an existing game to the CV would be a lot easier than programming a port from the ground up...but even a hack like that would require a lot of knowlege and skill. That's why I asked about Mario Bros and such...it looked so good that I was sure it must have been a hacked game from another system.

[ColecoDan]

saw it in another thread as I didn't answer your question before because I was unsure. The other thread stated that mario bros was created from the ground up and not pulled("hacked") from another port on another platform. The programmer said it himself and said he had to play the game a lot in the arcade he found by his house to try and get the feal of the game as close as possible.

[riffraff]

"Hack" is a very poor word to choose for describing anything other than changing the graphics and/or level data in a known rom to make a slightly different version of the game. The proper word you want to use is "port". When a programmer "ports" a game to a new system it can be written completely from scratch or by using some parts of the original code (assuming it's the same processor or video/audio components that would not have to be re-written). Some ports are easier than others, depending on how much the machines have in common and how knowledgeable the coder is of both machines.

 

The insult comes when you compare a "hack" to a "port" as they are very different things. I think the homebrew coders understand what you meant in any case.

 

Speaking of ports, a 2nd print of

will be coming within the next 3-4 weeks. Look for my announcement hopefully later today. It will be limited to 30 (first print was only 20 in 2010).

 

Maybe someday I'll code for Colecovision. Like the Bally it's a Z80 processor but the way it displays graphics is radically different. A "port" would require a great deal of the code to be written from scratch

[RelliK111]

"Hack" is a very poor word to choose for describing anything other than changing the graphics and/or level data in a known rom to make a slightly different version of the game. The proper word you want to use is "port". When a programmer "ports" a game to a new system it can be written completely from scratch or by using some parts of the original code (assuming it's the same processor or video/audio components that would not have to be re-written). Some ports are easier than others, depending on how much the machines have in common and how knowledgeable the coder is of both machines.

 

The insult comes when you compare a "hack" to a "port" as they are very different things. I think the homebrew coders understand what you meant in any case.

 

Speaking of ports, a 2nd print of

will be coming within the next 3-4 weeks. Look for my announcement hopefully later today. It will be limited to 30 (first print was only 20 in 2010).

 

Maybe someday I'll code for Colecovision. Like the Bally it's a Z80 processor but the way it displays graphics is radically different. A "port" would require a great deal of the code to be written from scratch

 

That Sound Great! Your game Bally War looks awsome I would be very intrested in getting a copy of it Are you taking preorders yet?

 

Also I would love to see you make some games for the Colecovision, in fact I would to see your Bally War come over to the Colecovision! It would be so awesome to have roller controller support for that game. Maybe call "Coleco War!" That would amazing fun! Also JF has a Colecovision Arcade Controller coming out soon that will be fun to play Coleco War on it! Also Carts on the Colecovision are much easier to come be than carts for the astrocade so you can make more of a bigger release. I really hopes that happens and good luck with your awesome game, I look forward to getting one

[retroillucid]

"Hack" is a very poor word to choose for describing anything other than changing the graphics and/or level data in a known rom to make a slightly different version of the game. The proper word you want to use is "port". When a programmer "ports" a game to a new system it can be written completely from scratch or by using some parts of the original code (assuming it's the same processor or video/audio components that would not have to be re-written). Some ports are easier than others, depending on how much the machines have in common and how knowledgeable the coder is of both machines.

 

The insult comes when you compare a "hack" to a "port" as they are very different things. I think the homebrew coders understand what you meant in any case.

 

Speaking of ports, a 2nd print of

will be coming within the next 3-4 weeks. Look for my announcement hopefully later today. It will be limited to 30 (first print was only 20 in 2010).

 

Maybe someday I'll code for Colecovision. Like the Bally it's a Z80 processor but the way it displays graphics is radically different. A "port" would require a great deal of the code to be written from scratch

 

Wow! Warlords on Astrocade! .... Great work!

 

Would be nice if you ever decide to make a ColecoVision version out of it!

Roller Controller could work nice with that game

[riffraff]

Are you taking preorders yet?

 

 

Taking regular orders for Bally War now. Will be shipping in the next 3 weeks. The game was done in 2007, the first print was done in 2010. This is a 2nd print as the first one was only 20 copies. There won't be another run.

 

Now I did not mean to derail this thread. It may be some time before we can claim that the Bally is the most supported vintage format I have a lot of games planned.

[PkK]

My side of things, and please don't take too much offense to this.

Classic gaming is something that usually involves lots of nostagia. And nostagia involves memories. That is why arcade ports sell, no matter the system (Atari, Coleco, Intellivision, etc). That is why Pac-Man Collection and Space Invaders Collection can sell 300 copies.

Other than that it is hit and miss, no matter if it is original or port from some other platform. Sky Jaguar has sold 200 copies, which is impressive for a MSX port. Other MSX ports I made, not so much.

 

However, and this is the controversial bit, classic gaming cannot be properly "advanced", "continued", or "innovated", as it is past, we are out of context 30 years later. Think of this: suppose you have a rock band. Suppose that your band is really into 50's rock. Suppose you and your band for some reason decide to only make 50's style songs. No matter what you guys do, you will be only mimicing 50's rock. You cannot innovate or advance that, as that has been already done and it is past now, the time for that is gone. Worse, you and your band are now also influenced by 50 years of rock, there is simply no way to wipe all that out of your mind. So anytime you try to innovate, you are going to introduce elements that will sound out of place. And if you try to stick to the "style", then you will be mimicing.

 

Of course you can do contemporary rock with a 50's influence, but then that isn't 50's rock anymore.

 

So I am not trying to mean that something is right or wrong, just pointing out that there are different ways to see things. The same reasoning some of you use to point out why you don't like ports, I can use (and do so) to point out why I generally don't like originals. But again, all a matter of personal taste.

 

Still, ColecoVision gaming can be advanced, and innovated when writing games for the (original*) ColecoVision hardware. Just like music for a medival instrument might be advanced, or someone might come up with an innovative new fighting technique for an ancient weapon.

 

Philipp

 

* Doing something using more advanced hardware can be fun and interesting, but when adding too much t simply no longer is the ColecoVision.

[hardhat]

And yet, an expansion module that could play Intellivision games could be cool. I don't know about an expansion that could play GameCube games though. That seems silly somehow. Both would be quite possible to do though.

[Pixelboy]

* Doing something using more advanced hardware can be fun and interesting, but when adding too much t simply no longer is the ColecoVision.

 

I don't think adding some RAM and an auxiliary sound chip to the CV is "adding too much". I'd say it's just right, actually.

[PkK]

And yet, an expansion module that could play Intellivision games could be cool. I don't know about an expansion that could play GameCube games though. That seems silly somehow. Both would be quite possible to do though.

 

Sure, but like with the Atari module, it would be Intellivision gaming, not ColecoVision gaming.

 

Philipp

 

 

* Doing something using more advanced hardware can be fun and interesting, but when adding too much t simply no longer is the ColecoVision.

 

I don't think adding some RAM and an auxiliary sound chip to the CV is "adding too much". I'd say it's just right, actually.

 

The more you add, the further it gets fom ColecoVision gaming. Adding RAM is not that big a step. A sound chip IMO is. When you add a different graphics chip or CPU, it's definitely no longer ColecoVision gaming (more like gaming on some other console through an expansion module, just this time it is not an established console like the Atari). That doesn't have to be bad. Even I have some ideas about cool things that can be done with added hardware. But IMO they're no longer ColecoVision gaming.

 

Philipp

[NIAD]

* Doing something using more advanced hardware can be fun and interesting, but when adding too much t simply no longer is the ColecoVision.

 

I don't think adding some RAM and an auxiliary sound chip to the CV is "adding too much". I'd say it's just right, actually.

 

The more you add, the further it gets fom ColecoVision gaming. Adding RAM is not that big a step. A sound chip IMO is. When you add a different graphics chip or CPU, it's definitely no longer ColecoVision gaming (more like gaming on some other console through an expansion module, just this time it is not an established console like the Atari). That doesn't have to be bad. Even I have some ideas about cool things that can be done with added hardware. But IMO they're no longer ColecoVision gaming.

 

Philipp

I completely understand and respect PkK's feelings about going to far with any expansion of the ColecoVision. As he stated, if you expand it to much, it just wouldn't be the same experience of ColecoVision gaming any longer. It would be more like the next evolutionary step (dare I say Wave or Generation) as if Coleco had survived the crash and released a new console comparable to or better than the SMS or NES. I have come to love the pecularities and limitations of the ColecoVision and the games that were made, are being made and will be made for it in the future.

 

With that being said, I think Opcode's SGM and the MegaCart PCB (as well as the newer PCBs in development that will offer bank switching and save features) are the perfect extension/expansion of the ColecoVision's abilities and in essence is the long-awaited fulfillment of Coleco's promise of the Exp. Mod. #3 SGM that never saw the light of day. You know, not a giant leap forward in capabilities, but one that will most certainly excite the CV enthuisiasts and stir the interests of those that are on the fence as far as picking up a CV as well as providing for more advanced games that I would consider to be still CV style games.

 

I think the Homebrewers, both past and present, have done a tremendous job over the years of picking up where Coleco left off, improving upon things and filling in the holes that were left when Coleco dropped the CV. I'm hoping this trend will continue for many more years as I'm simply not into modern gaming all that much. It's cool to see all the advancements being made and my kid's sure love all the new games and systems, but for me, the CV & ADAM are all I need and want a far as supplying some gaming fun.

[youki]

IMO a CV with more ram and a new Sound Chip , is more a MSX than a CV...

 

But despite that, the SGM could be a interresting addition, only if CV games are developped specifically for him. I mean game with the CV "flavor"... not MSX games.

 

I see Pixelboy plan to release Super Zaxxon and Dragon 's Lair , both of them have typically CV flavor , and i think it make sense "historically" to have them on Cv with the SGM.

 

But Game like KnightMare for instance would be a non sense.

 

Personnaly as developper i stick with the original hardware , even if sometimes it is really frustrating!

[nanochess]

32K of RAM are excellent for writing some pretty advanced games otherwise not feasible, combine that with a 1MB Megacart and, by example, you can create a big RPG full of graphics and story (though probably it will take ages to program!)

And the extra PSG allows enhanced music sounding very much like arcade games. I've done already some tests for my next Colecovision game that improves instruments greatly for SGM owners while being backward compatible with unexpanded Colecovision.

So I think that SGM is a very welcome enhancement.

[youki]

it is what i say... you have an MSX... I know , you love MSX!