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DarkLord

Atari's Plato Cartridge question

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Yes. I asked for a new sign on haven't checked mail to see if it happened yet. I better ask myself if I'm up to nefarious purposes... Nope I'm not!

It came today... :)

Interestingly, they could set up the homelink group again I'm sure, and since they should now know where some of this was located 'central server a' it could make tracking this down easier. At least I think they should know, as tschak909 has been whispering PLATO notes in their ears :)

Edited by _The Doctor__

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I'm confused, why are we modifying the Atari code, the PLATO server should recognize the Atari id and translate accordingly. If someone trounced on that, then they need to pick a different number for whatever they did, and update that later modern computer with it, not a the rom based machine.

If there is a need to add newer features to it, it could be done as a rom, or executable, like any other piece of software.

I thought the Idea was to Plug in any PLATO cartridge or Learning Phone cartridge and have at it.

we send our term type and it assigns a term type and the server only sends what it is needed saving the server from transmitting throw away data.

 

I'm missing something here, as it was stated they can still run the original PLATO terminal variants... have we tried just connecting with that...

If the new(er) programs are written to provide full color ansi like text, it should be simple to have it stripped on the server end saving bandwidth, or send minimally background color, swap, or intensity(foreground), I am not certain if it's an ICE-T color approach we're looking at here, PLATO kind of stamps things to the screen. I'm probably way off base with all of this.

Emoji were created by stamping new text over already written text. Give it a shot, ask around some one will show you how to do it.

 

This is to say I'm all for restoring PLATO and Atari as it was. Once completed I thought the natural progression would be to make a new more up to date version on disk or cart with either a classic or extended id and experience.

Edited by _The Doctor__

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Well, I'm glad to see much has been accomplished already since I initially logged in to my account back sometime in january (account created the 7th, probably logged in 9th or 10th, I'd have to check the IRC logs). I guess I beat you all to the first signon from an (unfortunately emulated) Atari in 35 years :-D

 

I would like to be able to use the 800XL, but my 850 is 150 miles away... Hopefully somebody can hack in support for disk loaded R: drivers, and then I can figure something out (or else I might have to see if the APE trial will fire up in wine or a VM).

 

Also, I guess I'll see if I can get my group changed to the atari one.

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Found the logs, cleaned up to have just the PLATO stuff, here they are: https://pastebin.com/2E429mfK

 

I first connected on January 7th using TLP, took me a bit of fussing around with a sniffer to figure out that shift+SUB sent the right code to do what should have been shift+STOP and actually get logged in. I had trouble reading some of the screens though, because the color codes got in the way a lot.

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this has been connected to by real Ataris a couple of time since they revived it a number of years ago, but not in any meaningful way. Emulation! Emu? lol - that's not an Atari! okay okay okay just being silly although moving to an xex and getting dragon cart might be possibly done?

You could give the Altirra link in this thread or, for a real Atari give it a go with the VM ape pretending to be your 850. Not sure if it does secure connections though... but cygwin or another solution, since you've already done this sort of thing by your own accord should be easy for you...

16kram outlined his method here using a 'Pi

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/196354-ataris-plato-cartridge-question/?p=3953064

he was the only one to fully outline his method, but as others arrive, I guess we should try each different way to connect and outline it for the masses.

 

Welcome to a merry band of adventurers :)

 

there is an xex floating around you might try with the stand alone r: driver for PR connection or 850 often used with term progs you know the one (so you don't have to toggle power on the 850 and reboot)

 

plato.xex

 

not sure if it works or anything, I use a cartridge.

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/85333-plato-educational-system/?p=1038148

 

that's back around the time I was working with him (cybernoid) on something, I think it was irc something or another or lynx something or another or some such thing. wow the years....

 

last time I messed with this was 2006 and then of course again being now, I had renewed interest after doing some searching mentioned earlier when resurrecting the thread.

 

Tshaak909 has been working at it making some inroads and getting things done.

Edited by _The Doctor__
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http://atariage.com/forums/topic/85333-plato-educational-system/?p=1038148

that is from back when I was working with cybernoid on irc, lynx, or whatever it was some such internet related thing.... it's a blur, but over time he had me mucking about with cygwin and contiki and such

anyway 12 years ago, life happened, moved, forgot about it again, and that was it till now.

and then of course we could leap back to 82 83 / 85 86, well you get the picture.... :) and then you.. I noticed the word AGE in AtariAge. You may not be old, but you've had your Atari for Ages!

Edited by _The Doctor__
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The cartridge is being modified because enough little things have changed with the terminal types that it needs at least some minor changes.

 

Particularly, if you've been following the threads, the terminal type emitted by the Atari was re-used by the Macintosh.

 

-Thom

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That's so strange, why not just assign another number? Far easier to push an update on the mac's than, Atari or TI etc... could be interesting to see what could be added in, I'd need a run down on the changes that happened and why. Not a full change log though, we don't need to know the t was changed to capitol t in the word The in menu of menus. I'm sure you get what I mean. I'll be installing some of what's needed on this machine. This weekend I be putzing about making a cable for the EDS and the Atari, I'll try with whatever serial device within arms reach and at that time. I intend to try all of them again. I really would like each person to post their hook up and the run down for how it works for them. I think I'm tired and cranky across the past 24 hours, clearly I should get some sleep. :)

Edited by _The Doctor__

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Dude, just ASK either in the ATARI8 thread in public notes (pbnotes) or in the Atari 8-bit notes file (atarian).

 

They seem to be very open about what they're doing and why.

 

-Thom

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FWIW, I am keeping a PTERM window open and connected so anyone can hit me up either with a personal note or a term talk.

 

-Thom

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Somehow through a freak bit of luck, while connecting with the Atari, cyber1 couldn't identify my terminal type. So, it gave me a terminal selection screen. I was able to select IST-III (a terminal I KNOW the plato cart can properly do), and the display was flawless!

 

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to replicate the procedure. Urgh.

 

But I've let Steve Cox know that the IST-III terminal works perfectly (keys and all)

 

-Thom

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Awesome sauce! (I didn't just type that out loud did I?) That's what we're looking for, getting to that list and trying each one. You might have nailed it perhaps one more might work.

 

Pretty cool..

 

I did a search for an old hack and got this result. I'd download the whole pdf for some interesting reading. This is why there's such a security carefulness with logins. You may find it interesting, and depending on what they've installed. Old holes might be new again... or not... anyway read down and it explains the reason for some of the key combinations coming in to existence.

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=D5ZBDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA216&lpg=PA216&dq=plato+author+mode+1984+04891&source=bl&ots=lXaPJEb9Lr&sig=mN1UXZZ0lAUOTOSh_VnjaGJzy9Y&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiHmMrKzpLZAhWKt1kKHU4OB5UQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=plato%20author%20mode%201984%2004891&f=false

 

I'd download and read it, the fact this stuff is in here makes it likely to be a good read.

The pdf is free to download from many places, pick a university or other educational source, I wonder if it's at cyber1 as well?

Edited by _The Doctor__

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Steve Cox and I have been going back and forth, and I just applied a two byte patch to my cartridge binary, that basically sends a nonsensical term type, which seems to do the trick.

 

I am familiar with all of the terminals that PLATO supports (and its quite a lot, actually, even VT100), but the one we absolutely want, is the IST-III, which is an analog to the PLATO V terminal.

 

UPDATE: ROM has been updated to select the IST-III terminal :)

 

TheLearningPhone-patched.rom

 

Enjoy,

-Thom

 

 

Edited by tschak909
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I managed to log in with Altirra by remapping my keys (right now, I'm not ready to give specific instructions beyond that because I'd like to refine them). So I entered my username, my group, and then I set my password. Then I'm presented with this screen, which seems to have no options... and I'm stuck?

 

post-18231-0-53867200-1517966415.png

 

I can do a help and it tells me about all the keys that I can hit some additional keys...

 

post-18231-0-04897200-1517966533.png

 

...so the only one that seems to do anything useful is SHIFT-DATA, which gives me...

 

post-18231-0-83986500-1517968407.png

 

Okay. I got into the notes and it was almost impossible to use without knowing what you are looking for (and with the character overlaps hiding important information) but I managed to read and reply to a note in the Atari thread. Hurray! So... is this the main menu? And where are the games?! icon_smile.gif

 

PS: If you come across my message, yes, I was joking about the credit card thing...

Edited by jmccorm

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Try again, I edited and updated the post.

 

@Jmccorm: Please get the patched ROM.

 

@jmccorm: some quick start lessons:

bigjump - a big menu of stuff

pnotes - personal notes

atarian - atari 8-bit notes file

help - a quick help lesson with some jumping off points.

 

keys:

 

NEXT - [RETURN]

STOP - [sTART]-S

SHIFT-STOP - [sHIFT]-[sTART]-S

LAB - [sTART]-L

SHIFT-LAB - [sHIFT][sTART]-L

DATA - [sHIFT]-D

 

Basically, for special keys, the key in question is the first letter.

 

A really neat key is TERM, which has a few commands like:

 

help - Provide tutor quick reference (especially when editing tutor code)

talk - Talk to another user

 

-Thom

 

-Thom

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It's working a lot better now. No more screen garbage and everything I've tried so far is working (games etc.). Nice job Thom; thanks for going through the trouble. This is really great to have working.

 

I don't know if it was mentioned, but you can change the background color by using the <select> key.

Edited by MrFish
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Try again, I edited and updated the post.

@Jmccorm: Please get the patched ROM.

@jmccorm: some quick start lessons:

 

Oh! While I was playing around you done went and made it easier! Okay. Let me get out of this weird educational lesson that I accidentally found myself in...

 

post-18231-0-01083100-1517969138.png

 

UPDATE:

I'm using the patched ROM now. But once I enter my password, I still find myself at that weird screen (in my earlier post) that has no options. It says it is in AUTHOR MODE, and it asks me to pick a lesson, but there are none. So then I have to go SHIFT-DATA and try something on that big weird menu.

Edited by jmccorm
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