ti99iuc Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 (edited) Hi Guys ! i would want know your opinion about this game: Bolo Ball http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHUD-ZKI4V4 this is a great game that i play still now on DosBox emulator. i would love to see this game on TI99, think you that it could be possible do play on a TI99 ? if yes what programming language could be better ? i know only a bit of Basic or Extended Basic and i will need for sure your help for programming some parts of this game and overall the Artificial Intelligence AI of the opponent computer player... Shall I count on your help as always? Edited May 15, 2012 by ti99userclub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew180 Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 I never played the game, but from the video it looks very doable on the 99/4A. 29x18 tiles easily fits on the 99/4A screen, the animation is tile-based (not smooth sprite animation), and it is not a game that requires fast response (like a shooter for example). You could do it in XB, but I'm still going to advocate doing it in assembly, just because I like assembly and believe everyone else would like it too, if they would just get over the "hump" and try it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 The game will need loads of grid scanning and decision making for a computer opponent to find a best match path to drop the ball down. In my mind I'd want to do that part in assembler if I were a TI programmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sometimes99er Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 (edited) A bit of description here. A 2 player version - no CPU/AI should surely be plausible in TI Basic (or XB). AI could be developed in Basic, but the AI itself should probably be executed in a speedier language. "Best move" among, let's say 32 possible, is perhaps "too difficult", and then maybe a "best of 4 random tested moves", would be the right difficulity, could be done in TI Basic and then be compiled with Wilhelms. Edited May 15, 2012 by sometimes99er 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 I like that idea. If you didn't go for the whole board you could use a best of 4, 8, 16 etc to alter the difficulty of the AI opponent. The higher the number of "best ofs" the more difficult the opponent would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Vorticon Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 This is a perfect game for Turbo Forth IMHO. Much easier than assembly and very fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ti99iuc Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 Thankyou for the answers I never played the game, but from the video it looks very doable on the 99/4A. 29x18 tiles easily fits on the 99/4A screen, the animation is tile-based (not smooth sprite animation), and it is not a game that requires fast response (like a shooter for example). Yes Matthew... i thought the same things about the graphic structure of the game.... and i have not problem to create the graphic part... my problem is all the rest !! ... like GroovyBee wrote "need loads of grid scanning and decision making for a computer opponent to find a best match path to drop the ball down" .it's true... and i do not know anything about assembly ;( A 2 player version - no CPU/AI should surely be plausible in TI Basic (or XB). AI could be developed in Basic, but the AI itself should probably be executed in a speedier language. "Best move" among, let's say 32 possible, is perhaps "too difficult", and then maybe a "best of 4 random tested moves", would be the right difficulity, could be done in TI Basic and then be compiled with Wilhelms. yes, a two player version could be good and more light for TI99 Basic or XB... maybe i could start from this ? but the problem i that i will play it always alone... so i will need to play with my TI99 as opponent "best of 4 random tested moves" could be good... but i will need help to programming this part of the game This is a perfect game for Turbo Forth IMHO. Much easier than assembly and very fast. Yesm but in TurboForth will be remain a my dream... i must still create my first program "Hello World !!" in Turbo Forth !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willsy Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 : HELLO ." Hello, world!" ; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willsy Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Yeah. I think TF could do that no problem... There *might* be a bit of a delay in the AI... Dunno... A number of ways to approach the AI I suppose. I guess if required the AI could be done in assembly. TF has an assembler. You write assembler in TF just like you write Forth: You just type it in, and it compiles it right there on the spot. There's no edit phase/assemble phase etc. Later on you can convert the assembler source to CODE words which are much more compact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willsy Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 I *really* like Dark Star for the Jupiter Ace. The Jupiter Ace has the same screen resolution as the TI: 32x24 so this game is very easy to do on the TI. It could really be done in any language. In TF it would be nice. You could just draw each level in the editor! No source code required to design each level. Then each level can be loaded and displayed very easily. If you want to change a level, just edit it in the block editor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sometimes99er Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ztJgGvUSEY Around the 1:20 mark,in this part 4 video, it becomes somewhat obvious that all possible moves for both players has to be scanned between moves - not something you would do in TI Basic/XB (= would make the game unplayable to me). This is a perfect game for Turbo Forth IMHO. Much easier than assembly and very fast. And to me, as we speak, Assembler is so much easier than Forth. I *really* like Dark Star for the Jupiter Ace. Oh my, it’s on my list somewhere. As reference among a few other platform versions. I guess if required the AI could be done in assembly. TF has an assembler. But then, if you know Assembler well enough to do that, then I guess you might as well do it all in Assembler. I mean, in Assembler there’s not the extra level of abstraction, like you don’t know if it’s you, Forth or the hardware, versus you and the hardware, and you also have the debugger/debuggers advantage. Besides that, with Assembler you end up with a version that runs on a “real” 1983 configuration (no later fancy stuff added). Again, just a matter of taste, like those who wants to take almost all of the developing stages to the original iron. and i have not problem to create the graphic part... my problem is all the rest !! I guess we really do not need to have numbers on the balls, and then there's not that many graphic elements to design. If you want to see a community project, then please go ahead and do the graphics. 29x18 tiles easily fits on the 99/4A screen Guess we can do with other resolutions too. Like 32x22. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willsy Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Around the 1:20 mark,in this part 4 video, it becomes somewhat obvious that all possible moves for both players has to be scanned between moves - not something you would do in TI Basic/XB (= would make the game unplayable to me). Hmmm.... I'm not seeing it... Can you explain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sometimes99er Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Around the 1:20 mark,in this part 4 video, it becomes somewhat obvious that all possible moves for both players has to be scanned between moves - not something you would do in TI Basic/XB (= would make the game unplayable to me). Hmmm.... I'm not seeing it... Can you explain? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sometimes99er Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 The Bolo Ball game is apparently still being sold through www.soleau.com and with a reference to www.logicgames.com too. I might be wrong, but I don't see any "really original" games at the sites, all variations on existing game concepts - even at the time they seem to have been made. Haven't gone through them with a fine-tooth comb though. Looks like the last update or version of Bolo Ball is from about 1996. Maybe a "completely new game" can be created with ideas from ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06wUWYm4kHg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ti99iuc Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 The Bolo Ball game is apparently still being sold through www.soleau.com and with a reference to www.logicgames.com too. I might be wrong, but I don't see any "really original" games at the sites, all variations on existing game concepts - even at the time they seem to have been made. Haven't gone through them with a fine-tooth comb though. Looks like the last update or version of Bolo Ball is from about 1996. ... of the games by soleau the one i like is BoloBall for Dos, there is also another version by soleau programmed for windows named Rolle'Em: http://www.soleau.com/games/rollem.html but i do not like, the Dos Version i prefer... Maybe a "completely new game" can be created with ideas from ...ZeroZap Yes, ZeroZap have a nice concept... maybe we could mix ZeroZap and BoloBall ? Around the 1:20 mark,in this part 4 video, it becomes somewhat obvious that all possible moves for both players has to be scanned between moves - not something you would do in TI Basic/XB (= would make the game unplayable to me). yes true... so nothink random choice and i have not problem to create the graphic part... my problem is all the rest !! I guess we really do not need to have numbers on the balls, and then there's not that many graphic elements to design. If you want to see a community project, then please go ahead and do the graphics. /quote] yes, right ! i go to work to the graphics ! 29x18 tiles easily fits on the 99/4A screen Guess we can do with other resolutions too. Like 32x22. Great ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S1500 Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I didn't have Zero Zap back in the day, but had a TI Basic knockoff of it. Got some book(made by SAMS) with a buncha games on it(source code in th book, etc), and one was clearly a clone fo Zero Zap. Quite a bit slower than what I'm seeing here. Great sounds here on ZZ. I hear the blasting sound from Chislom(sp?) Trail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sometimes99er Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 (edited) Around the 1:20 mark,in this part 4 video, it becomes somewhat obvious that all possible moves has to be scanned between moves - not something you would do in TI Basic/XB (= would make the game unplayable to me). yes true... so nothink random choice I don’t know what the ”original” does, but let’s say the program runs through all possible moves (that’s a max. of 29 balls (= width)). Then the computer move can still pick 4, 7, 11, any number of random moves (max. is of course remaining number of computer balls bla bla bla) and pick the best. 4 obviously making an easier level than say 5. Let's say that all 29 positions are available (in the beginning of the game). We pick 4 random positions. Let's say position 8, 14, 21 and 25. Let's say the previous complete scan has stored the points possible with the precalculated pushes, then these positions may return 60, 20, 48 and 8 points. The computer then chooses the position with the most points, which in this case is position 8. As the lane (game area) changes with each ball pushed, possible moves have to be recalculated after each move (as far as I can see/guess right now). Edited May 17, 2012 by sometimes99er Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sometimes99er Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I didn't have Zero Zap back in the day, but had a TI Basic knockoff of it. Got some book(made by SAMS) with a buncha games on it(source code in th book, etc), and one was clearly a clone fo Zero Zap. Quite a bit slower than what I'm seeing here. Great sounds here on ZZ. I hear the blasting sound from Chislom(sp?) Trail. Hehe, yep, guess TI reused some "sound samples" (sound lists). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unhuman Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I had ZeroZap as a kid and dismissed it as stupid - and now - based on that video - I'm inspired to play it again. Amazing how "perspective" on what a games can be changes everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sometimes99er Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Here’s a quick one. Background, balls for green and red player, arrows left and right, teleport, score tile, players green and red and finally the stone tile. Apart from characters for score etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ti99iuc Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 Great !! ... i must finish the player sprite still and you already done most of the game ahahaha ... nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ti99iuc Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 Here’s a quick one. Sometimes but i must create sprites only in 8x8 and in one color ? or i could create multicolor sprites? i create this at now.... 8x8, a human robot and a robot like Wall-E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ti99iuc Posted August 3, 2020 Author Share Posted August 3, 2020 (edited) Just an update for this one a variant of this game has been developed for TI-99/4A and named: FRUITEE! Enjoy! Edited August 3, 2020 by ti99iuc 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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