How hard would it have been to make the SNES backward compatible with NES?

[BillyHW]

Isn't the SNES 65c816 processor an extension of the 6502 used in the NES? How hard would it have been to make the SNES backward compatible with the NES?

[Crazy Climber]

Not too hard...

[the.golden.ax]

Isn't the SNES 65c816 processor an extension of the 6502 used in the NES? How hard would it have been to make the SNES backward compatible with the NES?

 

Not hard, but Nintendo was still selling the NES fairly briskly at that point. Plus with the top loader iteration, they really had no reason to offer it.

[BillyHW]

Not too hard...

 

Wiki says that clone has compatibility issues with quite a few NES and SNES games. Does it just run an emulator?

[BillyHW]

Isn't the SNES 65c816 processor an extension of the 6502 used in the NES? How hard would it have been to make the SNES backward compatible with the NES?

 

Not hard, but Nintendo was still selling the NES fairly briskly at that point. Plus with the top loader iteration, they really had no reason to offer it.

 

I disagree.

 

Having a backward compatible system would have entrenched their market domination. Not that I particularly care about backward compatibility for myself, but if it would have been fairly easy to accomplish, it would have been a wise business move at the time. Nintendo got a lot of flack from uninformed 'mother'-types who thought it was all a big scam ("What do you mean it won't play any of the games we've already spent a fortune to buy?!"). I know Nintendo tried to explain how you could keep both systems hooked up to the same TV, but it didn't really sink in with a lot of people. I think that very little break with customer loyalty was what let Sega get their foot in the door.

 

Back in the 80s and early 90s, things like backward compatibility and keyboard/computer add-ons mattered to a lot of buyers at the time of sale, even if it didn't turn out to matter much after the sale.

 

I've been reading online and apparently the Apple IIGS retained compatibility with the Apple II, which indicates that it may have been possible for the SNES vis-a-vis the NES

Edited May 15, 2012 by BillyHW

[Emehr]

If the Super NES had come out in 1989 like the Genesis, I could see backwards compatibility being a lucrative addition. However, by the time the Super NES launched, NES games were getting long in the tooth, competing directly with 16-bit offerings in the market and in magazine reviews, and were being publicly humiliated by Sega's marketing for about two years. "Genesis does what Nintendon't" Remember those ads? By 1991, Nintendo needed to move forward. I was one of those consumers that didn't mind keeping the NES around so backwards compatibility has never been a selling point for me. I do remember backwards compatibility being a talking point but by the time the Super NES hit its stride, it didn't seem that big of an issue anymore.

[+thegoldenband]

My understanding is that Nintendo was planning backwards compatibility for the SNES, but would've had to substantially jack up the hardware price (the figure of $50 comes to mind for some reason) and ultimately decided to axe it.

 

BTW, I strongly agree that backwards compatibility is a big deal to consumers. A couple people have suggested that the lack of BC for the 5200 didn't matter, but I think it really hurt that system. Perhaps it's less of a big deal, though, if there seems to be a huge shift in technology; the NES > SNES transition felt big at the time.

[Crazy Climber]

Not too hard...

 

Wiki says that clone has compatibility issues with quite a few NES and SNES games. Does it just run an emulator?

Thats just because its a shitty china product, Nintendo would have been able to make a decent one but yeah, as Ax mentioned, the NES was still for sale for quite a long time before they pulled the plug so no real need

[sqoon]

I can't say I ever fully understood the whole backward compatibility argument, even in the 2600 days. Was it some parental demand that a kid could only have one game system in the house, therefore when SNES came in, NES went out to the trash man? Even when Colecovision made their 2600 adapter, it was mainly to lure 2600 owners over to their system, but were those people all assumed to be ditching their 2600 consoles just because Colecovision arrived on the scene?

 

Seems like pretty faulty reasoning to me.

[Arkhan]

Not too hard...

 

Wiki says that clone has compatibility issues with quite a few NES and SNES games. Does it just run an emulator?

Thats just because its a shitty china product, Nintendo would have been able to make a decent one but yeah, as Ax mentioned, the NES was still for sale for quite a long time before they pulled the plug so no real need

 

 

FFS.

 

It's got compatibility issues with games that use special chips, including Castlevania 3 and Starfox.

 

It's not because it's a shitty china product. Don't be stupid.

[+Gemintronic]

Actually Crazy Climber is partly right. The China made NES clones are called NOACs (Nintendo on a Chip) and behave differently than real Nintendo parts. I've only got one of my knock off systems to play nice with my PowerPak from RetroUSB.

 

He's not a connoisseur of Nintendo clones so how would he know Yobo isn't yet another cheap import? Yobo is one of the better brands but I've got some misses from them too.

 

Back in the days we really didn't think of backwards compatibility. As the legacy grew and game consoles became multimedia players it became more important.

Edited May 15, 2012 by theloon

[+thegoldenband]

Back in the days we really didn't think of backwards compatibility. As the legacy grew and game consoles became multimedia players it became more important.

 

A couple of people have said that, but it wasn't true where I lived! My family was disappointed that the 5200 didn't have backwards compatibility with the 2600, and I'm 99% sure I remember the issue being raised in Electronic Games or one of the other mags I read -- either that or someone in my family called Atari, I don't remember which. I also remember calling Nintendo to find out whether the SNES could play NES carts.

 

I had at least a couple friends whose parents were royally pissed that the SNES couldn't play NES games, for basically the reasons that BillyHW described in post #5. And clutter is a big issue in many households -- both the clutter of the items themselves (games, controllers, consoles), and the consequences of having them.

 

I know I've said this before, but most parents didn't (and don't) want their kids messing around with the AV hookups by swapping back and forth between systems. They'd tolerate one console that stayed hooked up, but having their 11-year-old screw up their TV reception was unacceptable, and likely to elicit a parental temper tantrum. One friend's father smashed the family NES with a hammer when his kids' Nintendo playing annoyed him, so it was no idle concern.

[Arkhan]

The China made NES clones are called NOACs (Nintendo on a Chip) and behave differently than real Nintendo parts. I've only got one of my knock off systems to play nice with my PowerPak from RetroUSB.

 

Yes, I know.

 

However, it has nothing to do with being a shitty Chinese product. I have the one pictured. It works great, and has its TINY list of games it cant play. It's not thru poor design or low quality. It's because of very specific, non-standard chips that they don't account for.

 

It works with a Famicom disk system just fine, so I wouldn't exactly call it shitty.

[YAGRS]

Backwards compatibility was important for me when I bought my Genesis. It allowed me to sell my Master System and put that money toward the new console. Of course, the Power Base Converter was necessary for SMS compatibility, but I must have received some kind of a deal, as I believe I got it at the same time as my Genesis.

[BillyHW]

Wiki says that the Power Base Converter is strictly passive. The Genesis console contains an SMS internally.

 

If that's the case then they were seriously charging too much for the converter. I remember it being about $80 CAN.

 

Would it not have been even easier (and cheaper) for the SNES if it's CPU was already backward compatible?

Edited May 15, 2012 by BillyHW

[goldenegg]

Wiki says that the Power Base Converter is strictly passive. The Genesis console contains an SMS internally.

 

If that's the case then they were seriously charging too much for the converter. I remember it being about $80 CAN.

 

Yes, it was passive. It was only needed as a converter for the carts/cards and to supply the pause button.

 

It definitely didn't cost $80. I'll need to go through my papers at home, but I'm pretty sure I got it for $30 or $40 and I live in Canada. Maybe you bought yours at a store like ComputaCenter, who used to mark up consoles and accessories well above their list price.

[godslabrat]

Nintendo got a lot of flack from uninformed 'mother'-types who thought it was all a big scam ("What do you mean it won't play any of the games we've already spent a fortune to buy?!"). I know Nintendo tried to explain how you could keep both systems hooked up to the same TV, but it didn't really sink in with a lot of people.

 

THIS. A thousand times, THIS. Keep in mind that even though video games weren't new by 1992, they were still new to a lot of people, particularly parents who raised kids too young to have played Atari, or Atari-generation people who thought the market might work differently with post-crash systems. The idea that you couldn't buy a game and use it on any system in perpetuity was downright offensive to a lot of parents.

 

Keep in mind that this was at a time when local news channels and parents magazines would still be running articles asking "What is this strange 'Nintendo' thing all the kids like? What's it all about? How does it work? Is it BAD for them? How can it screw up their lives and turn them into crackwhores? Is it Japan's way of corruping our youth??!" Video games in general, and Nintendo in particular, still had a long way to go to be accepted into the minds of the average person, and the last thing Nintendo wanted was to be seen as greedy or crooked. Making people spend another $200 after they'd already spent hundreds on NES stuff wasn't a great PR move, but apparently it was technologically the way to go.

 

If the Super NES had come out in 1989 like the Genesis, I could see backwards compatibility being a lucrative addition. However, by the time the Super NES launched, NES games were getting long in the tooth, competing directly with 16-bit offerings in the market and in magazine reviews, and were being publicly humiliated by Sega's marketing for about two years. "Genesis does what Nintendon't" Remember those ads? By 1991, Nintendo needed to move forward. I was one of those consumers that didn't mind keeping the NES around so backwards compatibility has never been a selling point for me. I do remember backwards compatibility being a talking point but by the time the Super NES hit its stride, it didn't seem that big of an issue anymore.

 

It was entirely because the NES was such a long-standing success that BC was desired. The NES was the Playstation or Atari of it's day, people wanted their collections to move forward. I, too, didn't mind having two systems hooked up at the same time, but to a lot of people, it was too much to ask.

My understanding is that Nintendo was planning backwards compatibility for the SNES, but would've had to substantially jack up the hardware price (the figure of $50 comes to mind for some reason) and ultimately decided to axe it.

 

True. Early on, Nintendo said clearly that they had intended the SNES to be backward compatible, but it would have made the SNES cost too much. Granted, Nintendo had HUGE credibility issues at the time regarding what they could/couldn't do, but on this I have to think they were telling the truth.

[MagitekAngel]

Jesus Christ guys, just go buy the Nintendo Expansion Module 1. Or was that for playing Master System games...?

[Arkhan]

Jesus Christ guys, just go buy the Nintendo Expansion Module 1. Or was that for playing Master System games...?

 

No, I think it let you play C64 tapes.

[Crazy Climber]

Not too hard...

 

Wiki says that clone has compatibility issues with quite a few NES and SNES games. Does it just run an emulator?

Thats just because its a shitty china product, Nintendo would have been able to make a decent one but yeah, as Ax mentioned, the NES was still for sale for quite a long time before they pulled the plug so no real need

 

 

FFS.

 

It's got compatibility issues with games that use special chips, including Castlevania 3 and Starfox.

 

It's not because it's a shitty china product. Don't be stupid.

*sigh...not you again, you don't like me do you Anyways, I have a few free minutes so I can play too I guess...

 

Really? You are dropping the "For fucks sake" and "don't be stupid" bombs because I didn't know the Yobo 2 in 1 happened to be one of the better famiclones on the market? I just grabbed any ol random picture off the net but okay......

As loon mentoined, I am not a famiclone expert. I was just responding to the OP about some games not working, okay, so the YOBO is actually pretty good, well thats great but Nintendo could have made a 2 in 1 DUAL cartridge port system that played EVERY game and the YOBO can't do that. You missed my point entirely unless you are seriously comparing a hypothetical Nintendo licensed product to the YOBO and in that case I have to respond with "don't be stupid" I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings or your Yobo's feelings, FWIW it sounds like it's the best one available, but it can't play games with certain chips/etc so compared to what Nintendo COULD have made (which was my original point) it's a shitty unlicensed chinese product.

 

Now, compared to whats ACTUALLY available it sounds like it's decent so please don't challenge me to a slap fight in your captain america PJ's just yet, I'll agree it's the best shitty chinese knock off available

 

This was supposed to be top secret but here at the shop I have been working on a true 2 in 1 dual cartridge port NES/SNES that will play EVERY game, even all the funky FX coprocessor chips/etc. GSU-1'S, GSU-2's, you name it, my system will play it, perfectly. The clock rates/etc will all be identical to original hardware overall it will be better than the YOBO but I will save the "tech" questions for my partner in crime as I am just taking care of the fabrication end. I will post some pics of my progress soon as it's almost finished but as mentioned, kind of a busy week

 

Okay, I'll wait for your typical snappy response where you indirectly call me stupid or a "tard/etc" as I am sure you are not going to let the above post slide but hey, you started it

 

Actually Crazy Climber is partly right.

I just wanted arkhan to see this again

[Crazy Climber]

Back in the days we really didn't think of backwards compatibility. As the legacy grew and game consoles became multimedia players it became more important.

 

A couple of people have said that, but it wasn't true where I lived! My family was disappointed that the 5200 didn't have backwards compatibility with the 2600, and I'm 99% sure I remember the issue being raised in Electronic Games or one of the other mags I read -- either that or someone in my family called Atari, I don't remember which. I also remember calling Nintendo to find out whether the SNES could play NES carts.

 

I had at least a couple friends whose parents were royally pissed that the SNES couldn't play NES games, for basically the reasons that BillyHW described in post #5. And clutter is a big issue in many households -- both the clutter of the items themselves (games, controllers, consoles), and the consequences of having them.

 

I know I've said this before, but most parents didn't (and don't) want their kids messing around with the AV hookups by swapping back and forth between systems. They'd tolerate one console that stayed hooked up, but having their 11-year-old screw up their TV reception was unacceptable, and likely to elicit a parental temper tantrum. One friend's father smashed the family NES with a hammer when his kids' Nintendo playing annoyed him, so it was no idle concern.

Well, remember us here at AA are a certain "breed" of gamer. Most of my friends back then couldn't care less about there old SMS and NES games once the new systems came out. Sure, a few of us did, but your average gamer wants the new system and never plays the old stuff again. I remember buying Sega games for just a few bucks a piece when everyone upgraded to Genesis. I had a pile of them, damn near complete "pre genny" set but I never played them, it was strictly a collecting thing. Sega also kind of had trouble with supporting too many systems at once, some say thats what lead to the end of there consoles, nintendo probably just figured it wasn't worth it and well, they were likely right

 

*edit - just a random thought here, maybe it has been brought up maybe not...

 

I wonder how big of a part Funcoland and other used game stores had in NEW system sales?

Basically, when I wanted an NES I do remember the ol "but what about all your atari games" coming up in conversation with my parents and I'm sure it delayed things on there end. At this point in time, atari games had little to zero value. Garage sales/etc could barely give them away. There may have been a demand somewhere from someone but finding them was tough....

 

Now, when I bought my Genesis I traded in all my NES stuff and when I bought my SNES I traded in all my Genesis stuff. I was old enough at this point not to ask my parents but had there been a place to trade in all my atari stuff to get an NES I bet I would have got one a LOT sooner just as many other people would have. I also am sure the trade in option is how I got my 16 bit systems right away since I never had that kind of cash all at once in high school.

 

I don't know, just a random thought that used game sales may have had a part in curbing the need for backwards compatibility? If you can trade everything in and get that new system, why hang on to the old stuff? I remember with the 360 launch Gamestop doing a special "extra $50 in credit" if you trade in your original xbox, I think they did that with the DS also....just a thought...

[Arkhan]

If you aren't sure about something, don't throw a "its a shitty chinese product" blanket statement over it. It's clearly better than what Nintendo DID do, which is nothing. Doing something like this is stupid. Deal with it.

 

I like you have to quote someone else saying you're partly right in order to validate yourself. that really strengthens your argument. totally.

 

Note how it says PARTLY.

 

Yknow what else is funny? Some Yobo's aren't made in china.

 

They're scrapped together in other countries, like Mexico/Brazil/Or *drumroll*

 

The USA.

 

Also, your original point was pretty cut and dry "it doesn't work because its a shitty product from China, instead of something from nintendo".

 

Get over yourself.

 

 

also, yeah, I just now noticed you're that secret-room buffoon. You like drama and playing the victim. It's funny.

[BillyHW]

Wiki says that the Power Base Converter is strictly passive. The Genesis console contains an SMS internally.

 

If that's the case then they were seriously charging too much for the converter. I remember it being about $80 CAN.

 

Yes, it was passive. It was only needed as a converter for the carts/cards and to supply the pause button.

 

It definitely didn't cost $80. I'll need to go through my papers at home, but I'm pretty sure I got it for $30 or $40 and I live in Canada. Maybe you bought yours at a store like ComputaCenter, who used to mark up consoles and accessories well above their list price.

 

Well, I never bought one myself, but for some reason the number 80 comes to mind from the Consumer's Distributing catalogue. Wish I could find old scans to look at.

Edited May 16, 2012 by BillyHW

[Crazy Climber]

If you aren't sure about something, don't throw a "its a shitty chinese product" blanket statement over it. It's clearly better than what Nintendo DID do, which is nothing. Doing something like this is stupid. Deal with it.

I am sure it doesn't play every game

 

I like you have to quote someone else saying you're partly right in order to validate yourself. that really strengthens your argument. totally.

 

Note how it says PARTLY.

lol, wow that one really must have got to you, it's okay man, take a deep breath, pet the kitty

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2uSsTIDnBI

 

Yknow what else is funny? Some Yobo's aren't made in china.

 

They're scrapped together in other countries, like Mexico/Brazil/Or *drumroll*

 

The USA.

Okay, maybe technically not "made" in china but designed/concieved there, that was my point and I think you knew that

 

Also, your original point was pretty cut and dry "it doesn't work because its a shitty product from China, instead of something from nintendo".

Yes it was, which is why I'm surprised you didn't get it

 

Get over yourself.

 

 

also, yeah, I just now noticed you're that secret-room buffoon. You like drama and playing the victim. It's funny.

Ah, there are the indirect (or a little more direct this time) comments I was waiting for

I don't really have anything to say back to this one, sorry, not really the name calling type here, a little ribbing is fun but I don't want to just directly insult people, that means you are taking this a little too seriously

[BillyHW]

Nintendo got a lot of flack from uninformed 'mother'-types who thought it was all a big scam ("What do you mean it won't play any of the games we've already spent a fortune to buy?!"). I know Nintendo tried to explain how you could keep both systems hooked up to the same TV, but it didn't really sink in with a lot of people.

 

THIS. A thousand times, THIS. Keep in mind that even though video games weren't new by 1992, they were still new to a lot of people, particularly parents who raised kids too young to have played Atari, or Atari-generation people who thought the market might work differently with post-crash systems. The idea that you couldn't buy a game and use it on any system in perpetuity was downright offensive to a lot of parents.

 

Keep in mind that this was at a time when local news channels and parents magazines would still be running articles asking "What is this strange 'Nintendo' thing all the kids like? What's it all about? How does it work? Is it BAD for them? How can it screw up their lives and turn them into crackwhores? Is it Japan's way of corruping our youth??!" Video games in general, and Nintendo in particular, still had a long way to go to be accepted into the minds of the average person, and the last thing Nintendo wanted was to be seen as greedy or crooked. Making people spend another $200 after they'd already spent hundreds on NES stuff wasn't a great PR move, but apparently it was technologically the way to go.

 

If the Super NES had come out in 1989 like the Genesis, I could see backwards compatibility being a lucrative addition. However, by the time the Super NES launched, NES games were getting long in the tooth, competing directly with 16-bit offerings in the market and in magazine reviews, and were being publicly humiliated by Sega's marketing for about two years. "Genesis does what Nintendon't" Remember those ads? By 1991, Nintendo needed to move forward. I was one of those consumers that didn't mind keeping the NES around so backwards compatibility has never been a selling point for me. I do remember backwards compatibility being a talking point but by the time the Super NES hit its stride, it didn't seem that big of an issue anymore.

 

It was entirely because the NES was such a long-standing success that BC was desired. The NES was the Playstation or Atari of it's day, people wanted their collections to move forward. I, too, didn't mind having two systems hooked up at the same time, but to a lot of people, it was too much to ask.

My understanding is that Nintendo was planning backwards compatibility for the SNES, but would've had to substantially jack up the hardware price (the figure of $50 comes to mind for some reason) and ultimately decided to axe it.

 

True. Early on, Nintendo said clearly that they had intended the SNES to be backward compatible, but it would have made the SNES cost too much. Granted, Nintendo had HUGE credibility issues at the time regarding what they could/couldn't do, but on this I have to think they were telling the truth.

 

Sega managed to include an entire SMS inside the Genesis, and it always sold for less than the SNES. Nintendo could have done it for even cheaper if the CPU was backward compatible. Even an adaptor like the Super Game Boy would have shut some complainers up.

 

PS2 had a huge advantage because of the backward compatibility and Xbox and GameCube couldn't crack Sony's dominance (in-part) because of it.