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CPU comparison: SNES vs. Genesis vs. TG16


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To bad the subject at hand will only lead to flame wars.

 

I have to agree. It meant well, but ya might as well have a title: "Europeans vs Hispanics vs Asians" :grin:

 

Ok, maybe not that bad...but you'd be surprised at how worked up peeps can get over video game allegiances.

 

 

Oh come on, everyone knows the Asians would win hands down... They're better at math.

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As for the controllers, you can play just fine with a stock controller on the TG-16/PCE. It operates as a 3 button controller for SF2. Yes, that's right, a 3 Button. With a way to switch between modes. You would know this, BillyHW, if you actually tried it. Not to mention, buying new controllers for a console is not unheard of. Using that as an argument for why a system is worse than another, is completely braindead.

 

Especially since I doubt you have actually tried the PC Engine version. You're too busy being a shortsighted SNES fanboy to do anything but talk about how great it is.

 

Most games that exist on Sega/Snes/TG, are worst on the SNES. That's not to say the SNES sucks. That's to say that the SNES is best used for exclusive games. Yoshi's Island, Contra III, Secret of Mana, Starfox... Fzero. That stuff is golden.

 

Super Ghouls and Ghosts is junky in comparison. Look at Super Castlevania compared to Dracula X for PCE CD. It's like night and day, dude.

 

Fanboyism is stupid. Stop doing it.

 

 

You really haven't contributed anything to this thread but your bad attitude. Who are you exactly to tell me not to post in my own thread? Everyone already knows that many SNES carts had coprocessors. That didn't really have anything to do with my original question.

 

Not everyone knows this, and the accelerated SA1 speed is what the SNES should've been clocked at stock. The stock speed is a joke. It's garbage.

 

The amount of games using special coprocessor chips (FX1, CX4, SA1, etc) is fairly minimal when compared to the full library. Some of the best games don't even use special chips.

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I was wrong when I said that you only needed to buy 2 brand new minimally-adequate controllers in order to have a decent game of SFII on the TG168. You also needed a multi-tap and a PC-Engine HuCard adapter. And the import prices on all these must have been pretty steep at the time. And if you wanted composite video and stereo sound, you needed a Turbo Booster as well.

 

So you had to buy 1. the imported game; 2. a first controller; 3. a second controller; 4. multi-tap; 5. HuCard adapter; 6. Turbo-Booster (did this even come with AV cables?).

 

Only 6 items! But I guess TurboGrafx owners had plenty of time to save up for all this, since their first SFII port didn't arrive until a full year after the SNES version. And then only in Japan.

 

It's probably a good thing the PC-Engine version lacked the turbo speed (and the new hyper fighting moves, don't forget) of the SNES update, because it gives those players on stock controllers that little bit of extra time to press select to switch between punches and kicks in the middle of their combos. :thumbsup:

 

(And as for the Genesis owners, I kid you not when I say that when me and all my Street Fighter II crew first heard the voices on *Special* Champion Edition, we all started laughing, and not just at the game, mind you. :-D )

 

Of course, none of this is relevant to the topic at hand, except maybe the implication that the TurboGrafx CPU possibly couldn't handle the turbo speeds of Hyper Fighting.

Edited by BillyHW
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I was wrong when I said that you only needed to buy 2 brand new minimally-adequate controllers in order to have a decent game of SFII on the TG168. You also needed a multi-tap and a PC-Engine HuCard adapter. And the import prices on all these must have been pretty steep at the time. And if you wanted composite video and stereo sound, you needed a Turbo Booster as well.

Well, for starts, you can't factor in IMPORT stuff. We're talking strictly hardware here. It was never released in the US, so factoring in bullshit import nonsense is just that: Nonsense.

 

So you had to buy 2. a first controller; 3. a second controller; 4. multi-tap;

You didn't have to buy an AV Booster. You don't even need to buy the special controllers. You just need a multitap. Most people who were into multiplayer gaming already had one for all the other multiplayer games.

 

It's probably a good thing the PC-Engine version lacked the turbo speed (and the new hyper fighting moves, don't forget) of the SNES update, because it gives those players on stock controllers that little bit of extra time to press select to switch between punches and kicks in the middle of their combos. :thumbsup:

Don't knock it til you try it

 

(And as for the Genesis owners, I kid you not when I say that when me and all my Street Fighter II crew first heard the voices on *Special* Champion Edition, we all started laughing, and not just at the game, mind you. :-D )

SNES fanboy. Yep. Also, at least the Genesis one (IIRC), doesn't have 3 different speeds for the voice samples like the SNES one. Is that a bad thing?

 

 

Of course, none of this is relevant to the topic at hand, except maybe the implication that the TurboGrafx CPU possibly couldn't handle the turbo speeds of Hyper Fighting.

 

the PCE has a faster CPU than the SNES. You realize this has been pointed out repeatedly.

 

Which again goes back to what was said: We give you information and it goes in one ear, and out the other.

 

 

Are you looking to educate yourself, or are you looking to blabber on and on about the SNES like a complete tard?

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the PCE has a faster CPU than the SNES. You realize this has been pointed out repeatedly.

 

The SNES CPU and the TG16 CPU both can do 1.5 MIPS. You can't compare processors just based off of their frequency.

 

For reference the Genesis CPU can do .96 MIPS.

 

 

 

Are you looking to educate yourself, or are you looking to blabber on and on about the SNES like a complete tard?

 

Drop the attitude. I'm getting tired of reading your know it all a-hole posts.

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The SNES CPU and the TG16 CPU both can do 1.5 MIPS. You can't compare processors just based off of their frequency.

that wasn't what we were doing, and even so, you can do that to an extent if the processors are related. The SNES's CPU is based off of the successor of the TG16's CPU. It's a direct improvement with alot of new features. It should be able to run code faster (The 65816 is backwards compatible with the 65C02), but often won't manage that because of its balls-slow speed.

 

The 65816 can do far better than the crapass stock SNES one. That's what they did with the SA-1. and the SuperCPU C64 addon. In the case of TG--->SNES, it sure won't do that so good though.

 

 

Drop the attitude.

What attitude? The guy is repeatedly disregarding what anyone says unless it is in favor of the SNES, all the while coming off as a flippant SNES fanboy. Why even ask ANYTHING, if you're just going to make fun of the Genesis and TG16, claim you have little experience in them, make ignorant remarks about them, and then admit that your favorite is the SNES. What kind of attitude do you expect someone to have when dealing with someone like that? Should I bake him a cake and pat him on the head? Or should I get out a guitar and sing kumbaya and give him a piece sign necklace? What do you want us to do? Crap was tame for about 1 page, but after that, it went down hill.

 

With a thread like this, what did you expect, really?

 

 

 

I'm getting tired of reading your know it all a-hole posts.

citatition needed. I don't pretend to know shit I don't know. But when I do know something, and someone else is being willfully ignorant/moronic, I will point it out. If it comes off as asshole-esque, I dunno what to tell you.

 

I will say though, that calling someone an asshole doesn't really help your "drop the attitude" portion, because you're essentially doing what you are griping about.

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There's only two things I know:

 

First:

 

Playing Street Fighter 2 with anything less than a six button controller is not good. Trying to defend a three button controller over a six button controller just doesn't make any sense. And for the record, I've tried playing SF2 with a 3 button controller. It's just not as much fun and anybody who knows what they're doing will destroy you with a six stick. Now, that says nothing about the hardware capability of course. I'm sure the PC CD game is great, but who cares if you can't play the game with six buttons?

 

On the flip side, though, playing SF2 with a SNES pad is also about as much fun as kissing your sister. There's only one way to play that game the way it's meant to be played and that's with a layout like the arcade....but the best control pad I've seen for it is the six button Genesis controller. Just plain awesome.

 

Second:

 

Pissing off mods leads to nothing good.

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Playing Street Fighter 2 with anything less than a six button controller is not good. Trying to defend a three button controller over a six button controller just doesn't make any sense. And for the record, I've tried playing SF2 with a 3 button controller. It's just not as much fun and anybody who knows what they're doing will destroy you with a six stick. Now, that says nothing about the hardware capability of course. I'm sure the PC CD game is great, but who cares if you can't play the game with six buttons?

 

First, it's just a HuCard game, not a CD game, so PCE is all you need. No PCE CD. :D

 

It's funny you bring this up though. Around here, we play alot of SF2 in all of its forms. This includes the HD Remix on PS3 and stuff. We all know how to play SF2, very well. I can pummel people with a stock TG-16 pad while they are using the Avenue 6 or Duo-RX pads, both of which are 6 buttons.

 

 

 

 

Pissing off mods leads to nothing good.

 

Eh, if what I said is all it takes to piss off a moderator, then holy christ, the moderators around here are thin-skinned beyond belief. I don't think this is the case.

 

I'm also not the type to go "ohhh noooo a moderator. I won't say anything against what they say in a thread!".

 

A good moderator doesn't go on power trips. I assume Punisher 5.0 is a good moderator.

Edited by Arkhan
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the PCE has a faster CPU than the SNES. You realize this has been pointed out repeatedly.

 

The SNES CPU and the TG16 CPU both can do 1.5 MIPS. You can't compare processors just based off of their frequency.

 

For reference the Genesis CPU can do .96 MIPS.

 

How does MIPS translate into game performance?

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This question just reminds me of this.

 

http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/perf.html

 

MIPs don't mean much of anything for game performance. How the entire system is setup is what matters for game performance. Game performance is often dictated by visuals. For example, the SuperCPU. Yes, it increases the performance of games, but, it's still crippled by the VIC-II. Most of the warpspeed processing is lost on games because the VIC-II is so old and chunky.

 

and that is why I only really compared the PCE and SNES in this kind of manner. 65816 is the direct successor to the 65C02. In the case of the SNES vs. the PCE though, it's slower.

 

The 68k has a higher clock speed, and its instruction set is more versatile. 68k assembly is an interesting, very fun, uninvasive way of programming.

 

6502 assembly is not. It requires a special kind of thinking.

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It appears that the turbografx's 6280 has some extra instructions compared to the 65C02 and 65816:

 

CPU: 8-bit HuC6280A, a modified 65SC02 (a separate branch from the 65C02, of the original MOS 6502) running at 1.79 or 7.16 MHz (switchable by software). Features integrated bankswitching hardware (driving a 21-bit external address bus from a 6502-compatible 16-bit address bus), an integrated general-purpose I/O port, a timer, block transfer instructions, and dedicated move instructions for communicating with the HuC6270A VDC.

 

They are described here:

 

http://shu.sheldows....pcedocs/cpu.txt

 

Probably very useful, but I don't know why :D Could someone eleborate?

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they're great instructions to use for VRAM related shenanigans. Doing some of the dynamic tile related tricks wouldn't be very fun without em'

 

It should also be noted, the 6280 has a sound circuit built into it, as opposed to being another chip. It's all stuffed right into the CPU.

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Block Transfer Instructions - a "poor man's blitter" - the 6502 is very slow at doing block memory copies, having an instruction to do it would speed things up probably by 4-5 times vs a stock 6502.

 

68K is very good relatively at memory copies, in a single instruction you can move 56 bytes at a time (using 14 registers + 2 as pointers), with the pointers automatically incremented at the end. Plus the 68000 does 16-bit memory accesses.

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68K is very good relatively at memory copies, in a single instruction you can move 56 bytes at a time (using 14 registers + 2 as pointers), with the pointers automatically incremented at the end. Plus the 68000 does 16-bit memory accesses.

 

:3

 

Even the z80 has nice block moving.

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It does.

 

The standard 65C02 doesn't, but the 6280 (A special 65C02 / the TG16 CPU) does.

 

So in the comparison of the TG16 and the SNES, the SNES cpu is kind of a giant wimp. The TG-16 can do block moves too, and since it's faster in general, it only falls out of favor with regard to 16-bittery...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yes, the EA Sports games were superior on Genesis. So was Alladin.

 

The Street Fighter II games were better on SNES. (If you disagree with me, you're wrong.)

 

I disagree with you, and I'm right. At least as far as Turbo/Hyper and Dash/Champion were concerned. Genesis had as many frames of animation, and a higher speed setting. Music was a toss up between all three versions (there were actually some stage themes that were best on TG16, imho, namely Chun-Li's, and some extra effects on Guile's theme).

 

Super GnG on SNES was better than GnG on Genesis, but suffered from severe slowdown.

 

And by that virtue it wasn't better. At all. The graphics and music were better. Stage design was a bit overbearing. But that slowdown was goddamn atrocious. Made the game nearly unplayable, or at the very least made me not want to play the damned thing and go running back to GnG on Genesis. Super R-Type was kind of like that, and that one made me angry, tbqh. I love R-Type. I almost hate Super R-Type, at least played on actual SNES hardware.

 

The thing about SNES slowdown was that it was very apparent in the early games (i.e. Super GnG, Gradius III, Final Fight), but pretty much disappeared later on...so was it really the CPU that was the problem?

 

Yes, it was. Like with all consles, devs got around hardware limitations. It took some really tight code for Manifred Trenz to pump out a game like Rendering Ranger on SNES, and even then it's not all that great shakes (looks good, but there's a lot of reused assets and very same-y looking sprites in that game, which, iirc, was due to the SNES having less sprite size variation than Genesis).

 

Games like Smash TV/Total Carnage, Space Megaforce, Axelay show that slowdown isn't a necessary "feature" of SNES games. If the SNES had the same 68000 as in the Genesis, would the slowdown in those early games still be there?

 

Probably not. Likely not. But then again if it had a 68k the entire board would've likely had to change.

 

Some Genesis games suffered slowdown, but mainly when there was a lot of things going on at once, with all manner of sprite sizes or really CPU intensive routines that stressed the 68k. But it took a lot to stress that processor, at least compared to the SNES CPU.

 

Let me put it to you this way:

 

Rotation, scaling and stuff like Mode 7 and even polygons could be "faked"/done on Genesis using CPU intensive software routines.

 

There are games on Genesis that use polygonal models that run entirely on CPU brute force, the type that would take the FX processor on SNES. No, I'm not alluding to Virtua Racer, as that used the SVP chip. I'm referring to games like Red Zone and Star Cruiser (a JP only release). Rotation/scaling and pseudo-mode 7? Check out the rocking tower in Bloodlines, the "scaling" used in Panorama Cotton (which also shows off how the greater variety of sprite sizes available to the Genesis video display processor, in addition to CPU grunt strength, can pull off scaling and rotation on a console that actually doesn't have in hardware support for that sort of thing), and the secret area in the indie release, Pier Solar.

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Lets not forget cheating with pre-rendered art, like Sapphire on Arcade CD for PCE! You don't tax the CPU at all if your polygons are figured out in a paint program ahead of time. :)

 

and F-15 Strike Eagle:

uses polygon nonsense.

 

I was pretty pleased with that game when I was 10. It's still good today.

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