The Mystery of Ultima V for the Atari 8-Bit

[+DarkLord]

[speaking of which, a smiling dude giving you the "peace" sign doesn't exactly say "DarkLord" does it? You need some goth makeup and a really angry scowl and maybe some blood for good measure.

 

Here is the avatar I use over at AtariForum.

 

Better?

[Bryan]

[speaking of which, a smiling dude giving you the "peace" sign doesn't exactly say "DarkLord" does it? You need some goth makeup and a really angry scowl and maybe some blood for good measure.

 

Here is the avatar I use over at AtariForum.

 

Better?

 

Yes. Much spookier.

[VW]

I agree. Also, while Ultima V is available for the Atari ST, with even a patched

version that runs from hard drive, I'd still like to see it finished for my 800XL.

 

After 20 years of waiting, I finally gave in and played through Ultima V on the ST a few years back. Great game, would play it again on the 8 bit if it existed.

[RobS]

So here we go. While I was unable to find the most recent/last files I worked on, I found some older versions of the software that had most of the main functions working. Sadly, the VBI is not in there. Instead, the screen redraw is handled with a usr call. Same routine, just not the fancy "automatic" version. Still nice and fast tho. Anyway, I was able to slap together most of what was working before, and it seems to work correctly. I'll release the disks as soon as I tweak a few more things and see if I can get it compiled with the MMG compiler. If that doesnt work, it will still run ok in basic, just crank Altirra up to 500% and it runs about normal speed for most things. While you wait, here are some screenshots for you guys to look over. Note the number in the first image, thats the free memory available while it is running.

Edited June 14, 2012 by RobS

[macgoo]

I've never played any of the Ultima games. Is 5 difficult, would it be best to start on an older version? Even 6 was released on some 8bits, 6 actually looks the best in screenshots.

[+DarkLord]

 

After 20 years of waiting, I finally gave in and played through Ultima V on the ST a few years back. Great game, would play it again on the 8 bit if it existed.

 

Exactly. It is a great game. Used to use all kinds of tricks - used to run a small cache program in the AUTO folder so levels would load faster, then we finally

got the version that runs from hard disk - hurrah! no more disk swapping.

 

Man, I can still feel the anguish from the consequences when I refused to give the rebellions secret password to Lord Blackthorn!

 

Curse him anyway!!!

[+DarkLord]

I've never played any of the Ultima games. Is 5 difficult, would it be best to start on an older version? Even 6 was released on some 8bits, 6 actually looks the best in screenshots.

 

Hmm, while if possible, I'd recommend starting at the very beginning, if I had to pick a "condensed" set, it would

be Ultima 3, 4, and 5.

 

I have to /sigh on the Atari ST version of Ultima 6. It had so much going for it when it was announced, and I was

so looking forward to it. Huge game, great storyline, new mouse driven interface, even hard drive installable...

 

Then I actually played it...ugh. Graphics on the ST are horrible IMHO. It looks like they took a CGA version

and just copied it straight across, not adjusting for palette or anything else.

 

I've not played it on anything else besides the PC version. It was okay there with the 256 color VGA graphics.

 

PS I guess Ultima 7 is my favorite of any non-Atari release - there is a game engine, Exult, that lets you play

it under Linux. Very cool.

[Bryan]

I loved the sheer size of Ultima II. Maybe it left it a bit unfocused, but I felt like I was always exploring. I stayed (mostly) awake for days playing that game.

[Tempest]

After 20 years of waiting, I finally gave in and played through Ultima V on the ST a few years back. Great game, would play it again on the 8 bit if it existed.

 

Exactly. It is a great game. Used to use all kinds of tricks - used to run a small cache program in the AUTO folder so levels would load faster, then we finally

got the version that runs from hard disk - hurrah! no more disk swapping.

 

Man, I can still feel the anguish from the consequences when I refused to give the rebellions secret password to Lord Blackthorn!

 

Curse him anyway!!!

I remember playing Ultima 5 on my Apple IIe. I was amazed that they were able to make the game run on the Apple, there was so much going on and it was so large. It can get a little 'chuggy' at times, but it's still very playable even at the worst of times. The music tends to chug a bit when you move around so I usually turned it off.

 

I always wanted Ultima VI on the Apple IIe (I think I even sent Origin a letter begging them to make it), but after seeing the monstrosity that is the C-64 U6 port, I think it was probably for the best.

[+Gemintronic]

@DarkLord:

What do you think of the state of Atari 8-bit development tools now? What would you use if you had started today?

[+DarkLord]

@DarkLord:

What do you think of the state of Atari 8-bit development tools now? What would you use if you had started today?

 

Wow, there are things available now that weren't even thought of, "back in the day".

 

However, note that I am most definitely *not* a programmer, so my opinion on this

would not amount to much. Only programming I really do is with my BBS's scripting

language, and that's so close to BASIC that its not even funny.

 

If I were you, I would ask this question in a new thread. Then the real experts here

at AtariAge can give you solid answers.

[+Stephen]

@DarkLord:

What do you think of the state of Atari 8-bit development tools now? What would you use if you had started today?

By far, the most advanced a feature packed development setup for 8-bits these days is the WUDSN plug-in for Eclipse, using the MADS assembler, and Altirra emulator. The debugging features available are stunning.

[Asaki]

Hmm, while if possible, I'd recommend starting at the very beginning...

 

I've been doing that, but I didn't really enjoy Ultima II all that much.

 

I really need to get back into IV. I was doing good for a while, and then got stuck.

[+DarkLord]

 

I've been doing that, but I didn't really enjoy Ultima II all that much.

 

I really need to get back into IV. I was doing good for a while, and then got stuck.

 

The 9 releases are officially listed in 3 trilogy's. 1-2-3, 4-5-6, and of course, 7-8-9.

 

However, for me, 3,4,5, always seem to go together, with 6 available on the ST

but annoying to play because of the ugly graphics. 7 I played under Linux (exult),

and it also seems to stand alone, different than 8, which is a betrayal of sorts

(joystick control in an RPG???), and 9 had so many bugs it wasn't even funny.

 

Where are you stuck at in IV? Its been a long time since I played it but I'll help

if I can - I'm sure many others here would too.

[macgoo]

I've never played any of the Ultima games. Is 5 difficult, would it be best to start on an older version? Even 6 was released on some 8bits, 6 actually looks the best in screenshots.

 

Hmm, while if possible, I'd recommend starting at the very beginning, if I had to pick a "condensed" set, it would

be Ultima 3, 4, and 5.

 

I have to /sigh on the Atari ST version of Ultima 6. It had so much going for it when it was announced, and I was

so looking forward to it. Huge game, great storyline, new mouse driven interface, even hard drive installable...

 

Then I actually played it...ugh. Graphics on the ST are horrible IMHO. It looks like they took a CGA version

and just copied it straight across, not adjusting for palette or anything else.

 

I've not played it on anything else besides the PC version. It was okay there with the 256 color VGA graphics.

 

PS I guess Ultima 7 is my favorite of any non-Atari release - there is a game engine, Exult, that lets you play

it under Linux. Very cool.

 

ST version of Ultima 6 looks the same to me as the Amiga version, OK the game graphics are shit compared to Gauntlet 1 on ST but this is normal for RPGs, they're always a generation behind in sophistication graphically to arcade games.

 

I'm going to see if I can find the VGA PC version now......

 

edit: OK more colourful, but in a gaudy sort of way. Cinemaware and Japanese arcade graphics artists would certainly not lose any sleep over those 256 colour in game graphics on the VGA PC version

Edited June 24, 2012 by macgoo

[Aegis]

For those that'd like to relive the later Ultima games on the PC, gog.com sells them DRM-free for a very reasonable price

[Asaki]

If by "the later Ultimas" you mean "almost all of the Ultimas"...

[VW]

For those that'd like to relive the later Ultima games on the PC, gog.com sells them DRM-free for a very reasonable price

 

Gog just added the formerly very rare Worlds of Ultima series (Martian Dreams and Savage Empire) and they are literally giving them away. I love gog, looks like they have all the Ultimas except the last one, which I heard was very poor anyway. I need to quit resting on my laurels and start Ultima 6.

[Godzilla]

sweet thanks for the heads up, nabbed em :-)

[JonArkanix]

I would have missed this great thread, but it popped up on UltimaCodex.com

 

Thanks for posting your story RobS! Very nice read and certainly interesting. Not an Atari guy, but all the details certainly light up my memories of tinkering when I was young and starting out with my C64. All these years later and I'm still tinkering, most of my time is spent working on my "ultimate" CRPG for C64.

[fortunateson]

Same here Rob. I saw this post for the first time today. I remember playing many of the Ultima series (on a PC) in years past. I loved that series! I also share your love of the 130XE which was my only Atari. I had friends who had many of the earlier machines but I didn't have any money to spend until I bought my 130XE. I played with that machine for a number of years (long after my friends had moved on to other machines). Thanks for sharing your wonderful story and screens! I look forward to hearing and seeing more if that happens - maybe even playing some.

[José Pereira]

When I load ULTIMA5 and I am at the Tittle's page (cannot go any further) is there anything more?

I even tried to attach Britania's disk but nothing happens.

[MEtalGuy66]

Yeah the piracy excuse was lame.. Apple II could copy ANY disk with the right copy program. But even on the C=64 (whose disk subsystem lacked the same degree of low-level control of the drive that the apple II had,) it's not like there weren't plenty of guys releasing cracked versions as fast as the software houses could put out "protected" ones..

 

I REALLY think that one major consideration was a question of time/expense versus market potential..

 

You couldnt buy the C=64 with less than 64k.. By the mid 80s, there was noone using an apple II with less than 64k either (all the machines they sold from about 1982-on came with 64 or 128k)..

 

Apples standard disk format stored 140k.. Commodore's stored 170k..

 

If you look at packaged software for the Apple or C=64, it either specifies (or just outright assumes) 64k.. Its very rare to find a commercially released game disk for the ATARI that says "ATARI 64k"(or something similar) on the label... Most of the time, they kept the memory requirements low (48k or less) so as not to exclude the original 800, and they alwayse used disk formats that would work in an original 810 drive (basically 90k per side)..

 

This means that a program that originated on the Apple, and may represent quite a development project to port to C=64, would usually need quite a bit MORE work to port to the ATARI because besides conversion of the code for the different hardware/OS, theyd have to do a more indepth OVERHAUL of the basic structure of the programs in order for them to run in 48k or less, and in some cases (where lots of disk based content data was involved) reorganize the data to a much larger degree in order to split it across smaller 90k disk partitions..

 

If they decided to just make a 64k version, they would exclude the 800 owners (thereby reducing the market potential) and if they decided to use enhanced density (127k) disks, theyd exclude systems which only had 810 disk drives (again, reducing the market potential).. The ATARI user base was already relatively small compared to APPLE or C=64...

 

Im not saying this was the ONLY factor, but I'm sure it was a major one in many cases..

Edited July 12, 2012 by MEtalGuy66

[Fletch]

I never really thought about it like that before Ken. Very well said and thought out.

 

Yeah the piracy excuse was lame.. Apple II could copy ANY disk with the right copy program. But even on the C=64 (whose disk subsystem lacked the same degree of low-level control of the drive that the apple II had,) it's not like there weren't plenty of guys releasing cracked versions as fast as the software houses could put out "protected" ones..

 

I REALLY think that one major consideration was a question of time/expense versus market potential..

 

You couldnt buy the C=64 with less than 64k.. By the mid 80s, there was noone using an apple II with less than 64k either (all the machines they sold from about 1982-on came with 64 or 128k)..

 

Apples standard disk format stored 140k.. Commodore's stored 170k..

 

If you look at packaged software for the Apple or C=64, it either specifies (or just outright assumes) 64k.. Its very rare to find a commercially released game disk for the ATARI that says "ATARI 64k"(or something similar) on the label... Most of the time, they kept the memory requirements low (48k or less) so as not to exclude the original 800, and they alwayse used disk formats that would work in an original 810 drive (basically 90k per side)..

 

This means that a program that originated on the Apple, and may represent quite a development project to port to C=64, would usually need quite a bit MORE work to port to the ATARI because besides conversion of the code for the different hardware/OS, theyd have to do a more indepth OVERHAUL of the basic structure of the programs in order for them to run in 48k or less, and in some cases (where lots of disk based content data was involved) reorganize the data to a much larger degree in order to split it across smaller 90k disk partitions..

 

If they decided to just make a 64k version, they would exclude the 800 owners (thereby reducing the market potential) and if they decided to use enhanced density (127k) disks, theyd exclude systems which only had 810 disk drives (again, reducing the market potential).. The ATARI user base was already relatively small compared to APPLE or C=64...

 

Im not saying this was the ONLY factor, but I'm sure it was a major one in many cases..

[Stormtrooper of Death]

When somebody releases a working version of Ultima V for the Atari 8bit i would pay $20 for it. I might even buy a 2nd hand Atari 130xe to play it.