Airball and other isometric games

[sack-c0s]

I'll admit to having not played it yet so I can't give a full judgement - but Airball doesn't look too bad to me, but it does seem to be getting a fair few mentions in the unplayable games thread.

 

My question is (hopefully) simple:-

 

what is it that makes people want to put Airball in an unplayable games thread?

 

I've never done an isometric game before, but I've been toying with the idea of doing one (platform currently unknown - possibly for more modern platforms as well as 8-bit and I'm definitely not ruling out the Atari), so I'd like to get a bit of insight here....

 

If anyone wants to put forth what they like/hate about other isometric games (A8/spectrum/whatever platform) in terms of what particular games either do right or wrong I'm all ears...

[carmel_andrews]

Anything done by that company that eventually morphed into RARE (now owned by M$ i believe) should definately be adapted for the A8 (do I see XXL stick his hand up there)

[Mclaneinc]

It depends on the control mechanism and sometimes to remember to hold your joystick at an angle.

 

What annoys me and makes them right for the unplayable thread is that there's no 'standard' for the control for these over systems, some go for the push the pad in the way you want to go (yay!!) others go for the bloody annoying rotate character till they point the way you want and push up on the controller to move in that direction.

 

Makes a game go from hard to a pain..

[snicklin]

'Rare' (now MS) is just up the road from me in Twycross.

 

I have to agree about the control mechanism. Personally I prefer it the "Head over Heels" way. NW is up, SE is down, SW is left and NE is right. And I also hate having to rotate the character. HOH is a fantastic game and is what should be aimed for in any isometric game.

 

Airball for me made the mistake of trying to be in colour. I believe that the monochrome method brings out the details which makes isometric games look so realistic (for an 8-bit). It's also difficult to play and I have no idea what you're supposed to do, though I think someone gave me a hint on here once.

 

HOH also gave you lots of lives, which was enough for me to have explored quite a lot of the screens. With Airball I was dead pretty quickly and never got to see that much.

 

Spindizzy (although in colour which actually worked in that game) was/is a great game and that was based around time, so once more I could explore quite a lof of the screens before dying. In order to complete though, the game is too difficult.

[Wrathchild]

Chimera was a decently done iso-game, though I think I recall reading somewhere an argument that its viewing area could have been bigger

Edited June 20, 2012 by Wrathchild

[ANTIQ]

Something like Sonic 3D might be surprisingly straightforward.

[high voltage]

Crystal Castles excellent game

Blue Max, great shooter

[JohnBuell]

+1 for Blue Max, but the official sequel (Blue Max 2001) should also go into the unplayable thread.

What's difficult with Airball is that because of the perspective and the coloration, it is REALLY hard to see those panels that you should NOT be touching at times. As a maze game, it's fantastic - it's a huge play map. But I think it might have been better off in "straight-on" 3D, not isometric.

[+therealbountybob]

+1 for Blue Max, but the official sequel (Blue Max 2001) should also go into the unplayable thread.

What's difficult with Airball is that because of the perspective and the coloration, it is REALLY hard to see those panels that you should NOT be touching at times. As a maze game, it's fantastic - it's a huge play map. But I think it might have been better off in "straight-on" 3D, not isometric.

I never got why people don't like Blue Max 2001 - not played it in ages mind... Isn't it the same mechanics as Blue Max?

 

Never played Airball as it needs 320K (shame there's no 130XE ver ) will have to have a bash at it on the emulator

What makes the game need the extra RAM?

[+rdemming]

Never played Airball as it needs 320K (shame there's no 130XE ver ) will have to have a bash at it on the emulator

What makes the game need the extra RAM?

 

Airball was an 128KB XE cart. The file version is a hacked cart version thus it needs extended memory to store the 128KB cart data. Probably an Atari with 196KB (64KB base + 128KB extended) would also work but I don't think there were many +128KB extensions (196KB total) since it would require sixteen 64Kbit chips. Most extensions used eight 256Kbit chips giving 256KB extended memory (320KB total) so maybe that is why it says 320KB is required.

 

Robert

[JohnBuell]

+1 for Blue Max, but the official sequel (Blue Max 2001) should also go into the unplayable thread.

What's difficult with Airball is that because of the perspective and the coloration, it is REALLY hard to see those panels that you should NOT be touching at times. As a maze game, it's fantastic - it's a huge play map. But I think it might have been better off in "straight-on" 3D, not isometric.

I never got why people don't like Blue Max 2001 - not played it in ages mind... Isn't it the same mechanics as Blue Max?

 

Never played Airball as it needs 320K (shame there's no 130XE ver ) will have to have a bash at it on the emulator

What makes the game need the extra RAM?

I *tried* playing it fairly recently and couldn't get any controls to respond the way I thought they should. After a few attempts, I got frustrated and loaded something else.

 

Oh, and back to Airball - I never had any problems playing the CARTRIDGE on my 64K 800XL, but Robert's right, if you want to use the file version you HAVE to have more RAM.

Edited June 21, 2012 by JohnBuell

[+CharlieChaplin]

Well,

 

regarding isometric games on the A8, there is also "Molecule Man" + editor from Mastertronic (originally released on tape in Europe), but I really hate that game. After a few seconds it is always Game Over for me, maybe I am too stupid or already too old to play it. There are also the Spectrum/BBC (?) conversions "Knight Lore" and "Nightshade" by XXL. Anyways, I am not a fan of isometric games on the A8, most of them look good but play bad (have bad controls, a much too high difficulty, etc.).

 

Hmm, since Spindizzy has been mentioned here, does Flip & Flop also count (don`t think it belongs here, but I at least like this pseudo-3D game)...?!?

 

 

-Andreas Koch.

[+therealbountybob]

I remember Page 6's Heavy Metal being very impressive for a type in game...

[sack-c0s]

Cheers - I'll have a look through that little list for more inspiration.

 

What I had in mind would be more the 'Dizzy' model - mostly based around puzzle solving, item usage and exploration, and some very forgiving arcade elements. That should ease a lot of the control issues.

 

The answer I was expecting (although I didn't say it because I didn't want to influence the answers) was the playing speed - but I thought that was mostly down to a lot of them being directly ported from the Spectrum Z80 code and not being written properly in 6502 or using the hardware available, so I thought it should at least be possible to do something properly and redress the balance a bit.

[+GroovyBee]

There is Space 1999 on the Oric which is a recent isometric game. I haven't played it personally but it looks like it runs at a decent speed :-

 

http://space1999.defence-force.org/

[snicklin]

@Groovybee , I've played this game on an Oric emulator and it is decent. However, it is a "turn your character" and "press forward on the joystick" game which winds me up!

[+GroovyBee]

However, it is a "turn your character" and "press forward on the joystick" game which winds me up!

 

Thanks for the information. I didn't realise that.

[Tezz]

... others go for the bloody annoying rotate character till they point the way you want and push up on the controller to move in that direction.

 

Makes a game go from hard to a pain..

....However, it is a "turn your character" and "press forward on the joystick" game which winds me up!

I completely agree with you both, they should always be directional joystick controls. That was certainly on my list of changes when reworking Chimera last year.

[JamesD]

... others go for the bloody annoying rotate character till they point the way you want and push up on the controller to move in that direction.

 

Makes a game go from hard to a pain..

....However, it is a "turn your character" and "press forward on the joystick" game which winds me up!

I completely agree with you both, they should always be directional joystick controls. That was certainly on my list of changes when reworking Chimera last year.

The Oric doesn't have joystick ports.

If someone wanted to port the game to the Atari, the source is available for download so they could change that little annoyance.

One little problem with porting this game though. The Oric has an odd screen layout and you'd have to redo all the graphics.

[snicklin]

The Oric doesn't have joystick ports.

If someone wanted to port the game to the Atari, the source is available for download so they could change that little annoyance.

One little problem with porting this game though. The Oric has an odd screen layout and you'd have to redo all the graphics.

 

Well, I was using the keyboard for the emulated version. However you still have to turn the character before moving it forward.

 

I've taken a look at the source code but it's a bit much for me. And yes, the screen layout is odd. If I remember correctly, isn't something like 6 pixels width in a byte with 6 bits representing those pixels and the other 2 bits controlling colouring?? The graphics would need quite a bit of work to work for us.

[+therealbountybob]

...

The answer I was expecting (although I didn't say it because I didn't want to influence the answers) was the playing speed - but I thought that was mostly down to a lot of them being directly ported from the Spectrum Z80 code and not being written properly in 6502 or using the hardware available, so I thought it should at least be possible to do something properly and redress the balance a bit.

I was going to say speed, generally. The other biggie is not clearly being able to see which way you are facing /also more use of colour on your player would help. I liked Chimera but never got past a certain point - perhpas these type of games are just too tough in general?