Work In Progress: "Bentley Bear: Crystal Quest"

[PacManPlus]

Thank you, Al

[Mayhem]

Nice work... I would have offered to loan you the spare CC2 I have if no one closer could have stepped in...

[PacManPlus]

Thank you

[PacManPlus]

BTW, not to follow a post from myself with another post, but I have all 4 warp level entries done, and the entry to the secret level. I am currently working on the secret level itself.

 

I start sound soon. Hope the XM is done soon so I can test.

[gambler172]

BTW, not to follow a post from myself with another post, but I have all 4 warp level entries done, and the entry to the secret level. I am currently working on the secret level itself.

 

I start sound soon. Hope the XM is done soon so I can test.

Hi Bob

Not only you hope......

Maybe Christmas?????

greetings Walter

[Trebor]

Hope the XM is done soon so I can test.

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/175033-xm-status-page/page__st__1225?do=findComment&comment=2573202

 

Not sure exactly how the falls timeframe wise, but it is looking sooner than later.

[KevinMos3]

...Also, funny you should mention the head moving, as PAC-MAN-RED noticed that in the very beginning and was going to change it, but I actually liked it. Maybe we should re-visit that.

 

I was wanting to say something about this before but was waiting till the game was further along. I also think the moving head looks very odd. I mean no offense, but his head moves too fast and the one angle makes him look kinda retarded to me. Other than that, this game is looking outstanding.

 

A couple of questions:

• Do the end-level things look the way they're supposed to in the emulators? In both prosystem and mess they look glitched and I was wondering if they are placeholders, if they aren't being emulated properly, or if they are supposed to look that way. This screenshot is from MacMess so the colors look different than prosystem, but the sprites look the same.
  
  
• I remember in some early screenshots, the foliage of the woods looked green. In the ROMs I've tried they look gold/brown/yellow (more or less so in prosystem/mess). Not a complaint -- just wondering if the color palette has changed since the early screenshots or if the emulators are not showing the palette the same as real hardware.
  

[Trebor]

...Also, funny you should mention the head moving, as PAC-MAN-RED noticed that in the very beginning and was going to change it, but I actually liked it. Maybe we should re-visit that.

 

I was wanting to say something about this before but was waiting till the game was further along. I also think the moving head looks very odd. I mean no offense, but his head moves too fast and the one angle makes him look kinda retarded to me. Other than that, this game is looking outstanding.

 

A couple of questions:

• Do the end-level things look the way they're supposed to in the emulators? In both prosystem and mess they look glitched and I was wondering if they are placeholders, if they aren't being emulated properly, or if they are supposed to look that way. This screenshot is from MacMess so the colors look different than prosystem, but the sprites look the same.
  
  
• I remember in some early screenshots, the foliage of the woods looked green. In the ROMs I've tried they look gold/brown/yellow (more or less so in prosystem/mess). Not a complaint -- just wondering if the color palette has changed since the early screenshots or if the emulators are not showing the palette the same as real hardware.
  

 

"End of levels" fixed... http://www.atariage....00#entry2560057

 

MESS colors (if using a verison from within the last couple of years) are near accurate. The MESS emulator for the 7800 displays the palette near exact of the real hardware.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Trebor

[KevinMos3]

MESS colors (if using a verison from within the last couple of years) are near accurate. The MESS emulator for the 7800 displays the palette near exact of the real hardware.

Thanks for the end-level clarification.

 

If using my PC, I use a newer version of MESS which looks about the same as prosystem (like the screenshots you took). On my Mac, I use an older version because I've never been able to get a newer version to work. Everything I've found has been a "mess" literally and had no instructions on how to set it up. I've also tried MessMenu, but again -- no instructions and I've never gotten it to work. If you or anyone else has info on how to get a newer version running, please let me know.

 

Anyway, I'm still curious about the second question. Is the forest now going to be gold/yellow/brown in color?.. meaning has the palette changed since the early screenshots?

[PacManPlus]

Thanks guys - and thank you, Trebor, for helping answer questions

 

On the real thing, the forest colors are shades of green (the intended colors):

 

I think I may revisit Bentley's head. I'm wondering if I should just use one head image for both frames of animation...

 

Also, I am going to limit the number of 'continues' to 3. I think if I allow endless continues, it will remove some of the challenge.

 

Bob

[DracIsBack]

Also, I am going to limit the number of 'continues' to 3. I think if I allow endless continues, it will remove some of the challenge.

 

Maybe you could leave in an NES style cheat mode? :-)

[KevinMos3]

On the real thing, the forest colors are shades of green (the intended colors):

 

I think I may revisit Bentley's head. I'm wondering if I should just use one head image for both frames of animation...

 

Also, I am going to limit the number of 'continues' to 3. I think if I allow endless continues, it will remove some of the challenge.

 

Thanks for satisfying my curiosity!

 

Some options I think may look better for the head:

• No movement (although after looking at Adventure Island, I think some movement may look better)
  
• Just a slight bob up/down (like in the original Super Mario Bros.)
  
• Re-drawing of the head frames so the movement is less extreme (like the big Mario in Super Mario 3)
  
• Move head slower, such as 1/2 as often as the feet
  

As for continues... consider what the Angry Video Game Nerd would say. Limited continues is a real pet peeve of his (and mine too). If you decide to limit the continues, then please consider having a normal and difficult mode with unlimited and limited continues respectively or something. This game is going to have plenty of challenge anyway (I haven 't been able to get past the first witch). If the continues are limited, I will probably get frustrated and be deterred from playing. Think of Ninja Gaiden. That game can be brutally difficult in places, but the unlimited continues keep you coming back. Your game is only over when you choose to give up... the way all games "should" be.

 

I like it when a game starts you back close to where you were killed when you lose a life (such as near or at a boss if you're killed fighting the boss), and at the start of the current level when you lose all lives and have to "continue."

 

In our current 7800 library: Scrapyard Dog is too unforgiving to really be enjoyable, Midnight Mutants is great but needs a continue option. I could go on, but I think you get the idea. This game is going to be the crown jewel for the 7800. Please don't make it a game that I'll only want to play with an emulator so I can use save-states. We have enough of those.

Edited August 9, 2012 by KevinMos3

[+Cafeman]

Other thoughts / food for thought concerning the issue of 'how many continues to give' questions...

• Normally score is reset when you continue as a slight "penalty". The only time this doesn't matter is when you earn so many points in later levels that the early levels are just a drop in the score bucket overall. Probably not true of this game.
  
• Can you earn extra Bentleys in this game? If so how - is it based on score? Or is it a pickup? You could have unlimited continues, but only have more 1-ups in the earlier parts of the game (are they ever "hidden" ? ) To provide more motivation to play it from the beginning.
  
• On the other hand, I hate how many '2D shooters' penalize the player for continuing by totally stripping you of your power-ups, making continuing pointless because you can't survive long.
  
• If unlimited continues given , you could count them and perhaps only give a final 'reward' if you've only continued X times or less. For example in 5200 Adventure II, if you respawn too many times, you can't get one of the better end-of-game-rankings like "Swashbuckler!" instead you might get "Duck Food".
  
• Or instead of unlimited continues (or perhaps along with unlimited continues) you could have hidden 1-ups along the way. This is truly a reward the player to be skilled and to know the levels well.
  

(_)3 Game looks great by the way!

[kigiam]

I think I may revisit Bentley's head. I'm wondering if I should just use one head image for both frames of animation...

 

 

 

Yes that is what I had in mind.

I was thinking of making the sprite frames like Wonderboy's where the head doesn't move at all !

 

As a matter of fact I have made a sprite of Bendley 'based' on Wonderboy,

here it is:

 

Edited August 9, 2012 by kigiam

[PacManPlus]

Thanks for the input, and the compliments guys!

 

After reading all of the input, this is what I'm going with:

• KevinMos3: No movement of the head - reason being is that the head bobbing makes Bentley look like a jack-hammer when running, and I don't want to slow down the animation because it will look like he's "sliding" when running fast, and that bugs me.
  
• Cafeman / KevinMos3: I will leave unlimited continues in, as I am already clearing the score to zero when continuing. Also, you already start somewhat close to where you left off when you die (actually it's split into either the beginning or half-way through a level)
  
• Cafeman: "If unlimited continues are given, you could count them and perhaps only give a final 'reward' if you've only continued X times or less. For example in 5200 Adventure II, if you respawn too many times, you can't get one of the better end-of-game-rankings like "Swashbuckler!" instead you might get "Duck Food"." - this sounds like a great idea.
  
• Bonus Turn every 50,000 points (already implemented, but forgot to mention).
  

Thank you, kigiam, for the very cool-looking sprite. Unfortunately, at this point in the game I wouldn't want to change the look of Bentley, and also it doesn't fit the 8x32 limitations of the sprites I am using (the 7800's pixels are almost twice as wide as they are high in this resolution).

 

Finally, thank you KevinMos3 for the *VERY* generous compliment at the bottom of your last post.

 

 

Bob

[KevinMos3]

As always Bob, you (and PAC-MAN-RED) deserve the compliments you get.

 

I was looking closely at the Bentley sprite to see what it was about the head that made him look cross-eyed to me. It's because the eyes are uneven. Also, the green nose being directly below the black pupil causes them to somewhat blend, giving the appearance of a very large left pupil -- especially with a CRT TV. I see exactly what PAC-MAN-RED was going for in drawing the sprite and the reasoning for it being the way that it is. I played with the head to see if I could find a happy medium. I did NOT touch the body. What I came up with is below.

 

Animation 1: Bentley's right eye has been lifted a pixel to match the height of his left eye. I believe the moving head looks better than before because the eyes remain on the same plane when shifting left/right by a pixel. I realize that in the original sprite the right eye stayed on the same plane and the left eye was one pixel higher to accommodate the movement of the nose. By raising the right eye, I've still accommodated the nose without having the cock-eyed appearance.

 

Animation 2: Bentley's left eye has been lowered a pixel to match the height of his right eye. Because of this, I could not accommodate shifting of the nose, so it looks a little odd compared to Animation 1.

 

Animation 3: Bentley's right eye has been lifted to match the left eye and the head is static.

 

In my opinion, Animations 1 and 3 look the best, but I do think 3 looks best overall. Animation 1, I feel, is good if a moving head is desired. However, I feel Animation 3 is best if a moving head is not important. This allows for more of his face to be shown than if using a static side view of his head and corrects the cock-eyed/cross-eyed appearance.

[Trebor]

In my opinion, Animations 1 and 3 look the best, but I do think 3 looks best overall. Animation 1, I feel, is good if a moving head is desired. However, I feel Animation 3 is best if a moving head is not important. This allows for more of his face to be shown than if using a static side view of his head and corrects the cock-eyed/cross-eyed appearance.

Agreed.

[Stun Runner 87]

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs2/3834304_o.gif

[+Defender_2600]

Wow ... today is the day of the Classic Gaming Expo.

Bob, the very best wishes for your presentation!

 

I imagine a great emotion,

I read that there are many big celebrities who have written the history of classic video games.

We look forward to your return!

 

 

Bob, Illya, Jeff, kenfused,

again a special thanks for this masterpiece,

certainly "the crown jewel for the 7800" !

 

Sincerely

 

Marco

 

 

P. S.

Bob, I am really pleased to see that you liked my suggestion about the changes from day to night.

Thank you!

[Stun Runner 87]

Good luck at the classic gaming expo.

PacmanPlus is a classic gaming god.

[the.golden.ax]

Post pics from the show if you get a chance.

[PacManPlus]

Thanks - although I never made it to the show Some situations arose that made it pointless for me to go.

 

But thank you!

 

I have all levels done. There are (normally) 40 rounds done, 5 levels of 8 rounds each. There is also a sixth secret level if you can find it. There are 4 'Warp zones' as well.

I am going to start working on sound soon.

 

The reason I am not posting any more WIPs, is that I don't want anyone to finish it before I even get the game out there

 

Thanks again,

Bob

[+Defender_2600]

Thanks - although I never made it to the show Some situations arose that made it pointless for me to go.

 

But thank you!

 

 

Thanks again,

Bob

 

 

 

I'm sorry ... but certainly there will be opportunities in future!

 

 

 

If possible, I would be happy to have an option to play with infinite time,

in this mode I can also slow down and admire the beautiful levels.

 

Or, infinite time but with finite number of Jewel to be collected at regular intervals along the route

(see Castle of Illusion Sega Genesis) ...

 

Just an idea.

 

 

Thanks again!

 

Marco

[+Defender_2600]

 

 

 

 

Animation 1: Bentley's right eye has been lifted a pixel to match the height of his left eye. I believe the moving head looks better than before because the eyes remain on the same plane when shifting left/right by a pixel. I realize that in the original sprite the right eye stayed on the same plane and the left eye was one pixel higher to accommodate the movement of the nose. By raising the right eye, I've still accommodated the nose without having the cock-eyed appearance.

 

 

 

 

 

Animation 1 is my favorite!

[DocEss]

Wow, Bob. You never fail to impress.

 

This one looks like it's going to be your best, most ambitious project yet. I'll definitely be following this topic.