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On 11/23/2021 at 10:52 AM, Beeblebrox said:

A very early one - C3PO's head - badly framed.

And badly stretched. So is Kryten. Please fix the aspect ratio.

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@ClausB  I agree. As mentioned these were early test ones from back when I started converting RC images. I may well revisit them and if so will bare in mind various considerations, tweaks and put in place things I've since learnt. ;)

Edited by Beeblebrox
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So I got CRT one of two I recently aquired from Ebay up and running! (I have a B&O MX4000 21" CRT on the way too!! :) Dunno how I am gonna squeeze that one into my setup! (Hoping my other half won't notice another monitor! :P))

 

This one is a mini portable Panasonic TX-G10 10" screen 480p CRT with S-video input. (I believe these were made around 1999-2004). It fits perfectly in a nook I've managed to free up on my ridiculously overcrowded desk space. :D

 

It has some issues - a few scratches on the screen, very slight distortion on the lower right - and annoyingly the image jumps vertically a little, especially in the lower part of the screen. Can do ya eyes in after a while plus it generally flickers also. (50hz display). I use my Hercules workshop double sheilded S-video cable with it to give the best image output.

 

Also annoyingly I seem to have to re-adjust the colour saturation and sharpness after it has been off each time. I'll delve into the manual. Not a big deal.

 

I got it for a bargain including postage, and sourced an aftermarket remote for it. (Mainly because the TV itself has no way of getting rid of the AV1 text that floats over the screen, but the remote does).

 

The main thing is it has S-video in which I really wanted.:lust: I'll use it mainly for viewing RC images and maybe occasional gaming.

 

A few pics

 

Stock photo from t'internet of the model (mine is slightly more "used" than these 3 x pics and hard to take a photo of all angles now in situ :grin:)

image.png.3480436f7fc930c7a51f458360f80e55.png1010812632_panasonictx_g10crt2.thumb.jpg.ec8836da16cfddd5dfd78d5b8e100cfb.jpg 1583764357_panasonicTX_G10crt3.thumb.png.30120771340895eebeaead640ae3fd09.png  

 

Mine running off my PAL 800XL (Uav rev D) on S-video with a few games and RC images, (incl some of my favs):

1214593105_minicrt1.thumb.png.237751e51e964b8e95ab44d595235370.png  1378026082_minicrt2.thumb.png.2a7fc38189d4a2df79e83649a7cbae9a.png1640620538_minicrt3.thumb.png.1b194db12e79d01a857314493a9cf091.png   

 

 

 

1724768723_minicrt4.thumb.png.46c097084e4d1cc75dd675e338d9bb54.png   1987751339_headphonesgirl4onminigrt.thumb.png.bce0aaba200e1682d7102b3dccdd7279.png 1390541442_spidyonminicrt.thumb.png.c8ef8a0642d123d0147fc5661b4a69c1.png1715153143_GhostGeishaonminicrt.thumb.png.077f22728f99813c58a59a5d215cb288.png1509451134_JeanGrayonminicrt.thumb.png.9a327cad62474c3259a0bb415ce301a0.png    

 

On balance, despite issues, I'm very happy with it.

 

Can't wait to see what the B&O MX4000 will look like.:lust:

Edited by Beeblebrox
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@Beeblebrox To bad the "Beab approved" isn't spelled with two e's, that would have been classic if you get my meaning...

Looks good to me, as much as it can with screen refresh being too slow for the camera. I recently picked up a Sanyo CRT, 23" flat screen model with S-video that has a fantastic picture.

 

Though it is mainly meant for my 2600/7800 and my Bally Astrocade (once I do a video mod to it). But it's too big for either of my desks (home & office) that my Atari 8-bits and TRS-80 Coco 2 reside. And really too big for bedroom or office, but I have it sitting under my projection screen in my man-cave room, angled up for better viewing since it's close to the floor to not get in the way of the projector image.

 

I also got a 13/14" CRT recently, similar issue as with yours that it was stuck on AV1 and no way to change that at all without a remote. I had to order replacement remotes for both CRT's off eBay, each for less than $10, but the one for the 13/14" doesn't work, so I have to open it up and trouble-shoot. But at the time I wanted to get it changed to channel 3/4 to use my "new" TRS-80 Coco 2, with RF only output, but now I'm doing a video mod on the TRS-80, so the TV will work fine with it when done.

 

As for using my 23" Sanyo CRT, it's NTSC and my 7800 is PAL, so I had to buy a PAL/NTSC converter box for it. I went out of my way for a PAL 7800 (and my LED TV's can handle it fine) so this is necessary if I want to use it on a CRT in the states. No intention of picking up an NTSC 7800...

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@Gunstar  heh heh - yup Beeb approved would have been good.:grin:

 

Yeah taking pics with my phone camera and avoiding as much as possible capturing those annoying diagonal refresh passes is very tricky at the best of times. Sort of managed it for most of the images. It does look pretty good and for a small CRT TV I am really impressed. As I say I can't wait for my B&O MX4000 to arrive.

 

Even though advertised for this TX-G10, inevitably the aftermarket remote I sourced is ultimately a generic one which means a lot of the functions of the original remote are not available. I can't remotely change the colour saturation, sharpness, brightness, or contrast remotely for example. Ce la vie.

 

Hey if ya like upload some images of some of your conversions/your fav RCs on the Sanyo flat screen CRT. 

 

Wish I had a man cave/room in the house. I may have mentioned but I have a very small dormer area with a custom made desk in our attic conversion which doubles as my home office given I've had to WFH a lot over the past near 2 years. Zero space at the best of times and I've added a LOT of Atari related kit next to my PC kit since April this year. Plus been trawling the attic for all my Atari software and a lot has been squeezed into the space also. Can hardly move tbh.:P

 

I went down the route at the start with various upscalers and the like to get things to work. Whole extra level when you having to convert between different standards, (PAL/NTSC). Good luck with the hardware tinkering.

 

I did a lot of hardware tinkering myself this year, fixed/upgraded a load of different A8 models and learnt a lot in the process. I have quite a collection of A8s now. :P I am now taking a break from that side and getting back into converting some more RC images. Tbh gotta start thinking about Christmas shopping now! :-o;)

 

 

 

 

Edited by Beeblebrox
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53 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

 

Hey if ya like upload some images of some of your conversions/your fav RCs on the Sanyo flat screen CRT. 

That wouldn't be until after Christmas as I'm in the middle of remodeling my house, hoping to finish by Christmas and atm my Atari's and other goodies are all disconnected and moved aside to make room for doing home improvements and also both my currently working Atari's are disassembled for mods and upgrades and I won't be able to finish them until after the remodeling is done and I have the time. But don't worry, I will eventually, I'd love to show off RC images on my CRT, especially with my 1200XL and it's beautiful video output. I actually have a Commodore 1084 CRT monitor set aside for use specifically with the 1200XL, but it's power supply needs repair, and 101 other repair and upgrade projects ahead of it...

Edited by Gunstar
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On 11/24/2021 at 11:39 PM, Beeblebrox said:

BTW if anyone ... wants to have a crack at the Headphones girl image I'd really welcome it.:D

Well, never being one to shirk a challenge (& this image is a challenge) here is one approach...

 

I removed all the background detail, since although it does contribute to the image, it also, in the Rasta context, also ends up detracting rather more from the main subject.

 

I mirrored the image horizontally, sacrificing some accuracy in the (already fairly chaotic and rather abstract) hair in order to maximise accuracy in the 'anatomical' face, neck & upper body.

 

Similarly, I applied a heavy mask (strength 10) to all those 'anatomical' parts.

 

This is the end result. It's not perfect, and I would certainly consider running it again a couple of times to see if Rasta latches onto a better conversion.  It gives an idea however of what is possible.

 

74 colours.

 

In case @Beeblebrox or anyone else wants to play with it, I attach the full Rasta folder as well as the working xex.

 

The parameters I ran with ( as seen in the header to output.png.rp) were:

 

 CmdLine: RainbowHeadphones_flip_2.png /pal=altirra /dither=jarvis /dither_val=.4 /details=RainbowHeadphones_flip_mask_2.png /details_val=10 /s=20000 /threads=4
 

output.png

drpeter_Headphones.xex RastaConverterBeta7 - RainbowHeadphones_3 - Copy.zip

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@drpeter   Wow, looks fantastic! :lust:

 

Funnily enough last week I decided to have another crack at it myself - I did exactly the same in terms of removing the background - mine even has a grey background too - but after running it a while I stopped it for now as wasn't happy at all with how it was going TBH.

 

I know what you mean about the backgroud detracting from the main subject in my original, I agree - although I still have a soft spot for the gold and grey flecks in my original conversion's background.

 

Great move to use a mask in your conversion. I must start to use them in mine too. Also flipping it to maximise the accuracy on the right because of RC's quirk was a great idea.

20000 solutions was a good number - my new current conversions are using between 10000 and 20000, some 12000, and 15000. 

 

I see you are using Altirra. I tend to stick with Atari800winplus as appears more vivid - although I use to use Altirra all the time in the Spring/summer for my other posted conversions.

 

I love yours especially the head and upper body - detail really came out well. It's a great source image to work with.

 

Like you I'd welcome others to have a go. It's hugely satisfying. Thanks for attaching the RC files.

 

For what it's worth here is my inferior new attempt from last week as it stands (incomplete in very early stages). 

image.thumb.png.f61ccbe798c03a5b0899d095bad79cb9.png

 

....and again my original conversion with the darker colours I love in the hair which I would still like to replicate if I try again. Love it - despite it's obvious flaws:

image.thumb.png.266731a46c74caa333d01ace853894ab.png

 

Thanks DrPeter- yours is really fantastic!:grin:

 

BTW here is yours running on my new (old) 10" Panasonic TX-G10 CRT, (phone camera doesn't do it justice and poor lighting in my room, but posting all the same):

 

image.thumb.png.17c9a8c9db0d845943cdd6e8eeaf48a1.png

 

Edited by Beeblebrox
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RastaSlide Slideshow Maker version 3.0

 

Changes in version 3.0

- No changes to slide show maker, only RastaConverter tools
- Addition of experimental tool "#try to fix HPOS artefacts"
- Which player displays during which kernel instruction in each line shown in comments
- RastaConverter's HPOS write delay assumptions were not factored in to the detection
  of possible artefacts, causing false positives
- "#disassemble" showing no values in comments fixed

 

(Example artefact fix)

AtariFuji.png.fbe7671958dc7bcd47b201bb3870c6c4.pngAtariFujiFixed.png.9c392f533ab65eb9f6e3d4e29051a1b9.png

RastaSlide 3.0.zip

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Well, my poor laptop has been flat out over the last few weeks cooking up some more images. Some of the more promising ones have been running into the billions of evaluations, (some 4bill +). Some have gone through several attempts already. 

 

I've probably tried to convert over 60 images in the last 4 weeks and a lot I've discounted or put on hold for one reason or another. Standard practice really. Will probably revist them all.

 

There will be some images ready to post up which I'll upload them over the coming days.:grin:

 

One thing I've started doing for the first time is using masks on my images. I've gotta ask myself why I never used them before in my conversions because ....they are amazing!!:lust: I highly recommend playing around with applying them if you haven't used one on a conversion already.

 

As a result of trying masks on various new image conversions and getting some good results, I then also decided to revisit some favourite conversions I've posted in the past - each of which I thought could do with another attempt.

 

Generally I've made quite a few changes to how I approach the conversions now. Aside using masks now for most of my conversions of late, I've generally switched back to using YUV as the colour distance and the Altirra palette, plus averaging between 15000 and 20000 solutions. I also always reduce the number of colours in the source image to 256 colours, sometimes 128, occasionally 90. All combined it has made a hugh difference IMHO.

 

I want to thanks @drpeter in particular as I'd probably not have started using masks had it not been for the fact he used one on his own conversion of a source image we've both converted this year. I suddenly realised how useful and effective they are. Wish I'd used them sooner tbh.

 

I've also taken to resizing the occasional source image to 160*240, then processing it in RC at 320*240. I recall reading this tip posted earlier by another AA member and for some images it looks like it helped. Generally though I stick to resizing source images to 320*240.

 

Anyways. here is the first revisit of an old favourite, a source image and conversion of mine from back in the Spring (this post in June). (Some images really stick in ya mind I find).

 

This time around I created a mask for the main character's form including the hat and sword handle.

Then I did the following in Irfanview: Reduce colours to 256, resize to 320*240, tweak the RGB lines a little and then increase the contrast, gamma and saturation. Sometimes sharpening the image too.

 

Finally in Rastconverter's GUI I further played around with the brightness, contrast, gamma and dither settings some more before settling on the configuration below. (Where I was previewing the destination image each time I made a tweak until I was happy - anywhere between 15-50 times, prob 25 on average):

 

Filter = bicubic
pal = altirra
color dis = yuv
initial state = smart
no of solutions = 20000
Threads = 9
preprocess = yuv
brightness = 4
contrast = 47
gamma = 1
dither = jarvis
dither strength  = 0.7
Mask value = 10

 

The result:

 

1.84 billion evaluations

64 Unique colours

Filename: Beeblebrox_Samauraitattoosm2_16.xex

image.thumb.png.f25138bfd02d48eb608afa0771e43f96.png

 

Beeblebrox_Samauraitattoosm2_16.xex

 

It's amazing the colour change that can be achieved by simply playing with the RBG, contrast, Gamma and Saturation settings in the source file and further in RC's GUI settings.

 

I actually left the horizontal lines in as, whilst normally I'd wait to see if they were processed out of the image, they actually give a sense of a horizon or even an oriental lake/marsh in the picture to a certain extent. Sure, it could probably do with more hours but I'm pretty happy with it.

 

*********************************************************************************

So here is the original from my original post back in June, (which I still like too), as a comparrision:

image.thumb.png.5dec9ae388ff7df71859148cf52dbda3.png

 

Incidentally here's what my latest attempt looks like on my newly acquired B&O MX4000 CRT running off my 800 (Incognito installed but stock with S-video output) - although the photo doesn't really do it justice with my mobile phone camera):

 

image.thumb.png.5f5f7f517fcafbd0b37f4eef08d6755b.png

 

More images to follow..........posts won't be a long as this one BTW ;)

Edited by Beeblebrox
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Here is one that I've been attempting for at least a couple of years now, off and on, and probably a half dozen tries each time I attempt it again. Never satisfied, including this one. But I think I need to have some closure with this one and so I've decided to post this one after all, it was my last attempt from several months ago.

 

ULTIMA IV: Quest of the Avatar. 72 colors.

 

 

RC_U4Avatar.png

GS_U4Avatar.xex

Edited by Gunstar
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@drpeter Well - couldn't resist it and had yet another crack at this one, this time around with a mask! :grin:

 

So I took your mask that you'd created for your conversion:

 

image.png.d9ac7e72d509d53f1da3fc44dac8df0c.png

 

I also took the original full sized source file you supplied in the zip - the horizontally flipped source image- (here in this post for other's reference),  I then cropped it to match the mask file, making sure both were 320*240.

Then did the following in Irfanview:

Decreased the colour depth to 128 and tweaked the RGB lines, contrast, gamma and especially the saturation to overdrive it a little  - goal for me with this image from the outset has always been to enrich the colours.:lust:

 

In RC I then tweaked the brightness, contast and gamma some more till I was happy as poss with the destination image.

 

This one ran for a l0000000000ng time - 7billion + evalutions in fact.

 

Settings were:
Filter = bicubic
pal = atari800winplus
color dis = yuv
initial state = smart
no of solutions = 20000
Threads = 9
preprocess = yuv
brightness = 0
contrast = 15
gamma = 0.9
dither = jarvis
dither strength  = 9
Mask value = 10

 

7+ billion evaluations

99 unique colours (very pleased with that!:grin:)

Filename: Beeblebrox_RainbowHeadphones_flip_2sm2_30.xex

Beeblebrox_RainbowHeadphones_flip_2sm2_30.thumb.jpg.63d850d30a009a5c25b4f26e7a00a13d.jpg

 

Beeblebrox_RainbowHeadphones_flip_2sm2_30.xex

 

The mask certainly makes a difference to the head and body. Although I think the face is more stark and less refined that your excellent conversion - however I don't mind this too much. (The "ball of light" in the image is after all implying the casting of shadows on ther face - (like how I am justifying this heh heh?!);)). I like the upper body, collar and the headphone's headband detail.

 

Horizontal line errors in the hair I couldn't process out. I intended to go with Altirra as a palette but ended up sticking with Atari800winplus on this occasion as felt the colours technically would be richer. Maybe I should have gone with Altirra. 

 

Glad I tried again, if not to confirm for me masks are definitely something I wanna use a lot. 

 

Here's what my it looks like on my newly acquired B&O MX4000 CRT running off my 800 (Incognito installed but stock with S-video output) - although again the photo doesn't really do it justice with my mobile phone camera):

image.thumb.png.cb0ddca5bef1e92fe8e924be32a6b064.png

 

 

Edited by Beeblebrox
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Incidentally, I don't know if anyone else has experienced the following phenomenon.

 

Bascially I have experienced this with around 5 x long running conversions now.

 

What happens is this.

 

A conversion will be running where the Norm dist figure is consistently going downwards as expected, and initially the evaluations is consistently going up.

 

Then at anywhere around the 4-5 billion evaluations mark all of a sudden the evaluations counter reverts to a number in either the upper tens or more often hundreds of millions and continues again from there.

 

Case in point here is how the latest Rainbow headphones conversion went:

 

Was running where it got to 5.256 bill+ evals then all of a sudden it was registering at 722 mill evals, then gradually counted up through 886 mill, 996mill,  1.111bill,  1.208 bill, 1.485bill, and 1.663bill with each save I was manually making every 4-5 hours. (I run multiple conversions at a time so manual saves of all files is a must). So in fact all in it's more like 7billion evaluations all in for the latest Rainbow headphones conversion.

 

The norm dist counter is never affected.

 

I have also had images which exhibit this weird "evaluatons counter partial restart" behaviour twice in the same conversion.

 

It doesn't have any bearing on the conversions themselves when it occurs but I just wondered if anyone else has experienced it? Maybe it's my installation or maybe a bug in RC?

 

Edited by Beeblebrox

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19 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

Incidentally, I don't know if anyone else has experienced the following phenomenon.

 

Bascially I have experienced this with around 5 x long running conversions now.

 

What happens is this.

 

A conversion will be running where the Norm dist figure is consistently going downwards as expected, and initially the evaluations is consistently going up.

 

Then at anywhere around the 4-5 billion evaluations mark all of a sudden the evaluations counter reverts to a number in either the upper tens or more often hundreds of millions and continues again from there.

 

Case in point here is how the latest Rainbow headphones conversion went:

 

Was running where it got to 5.256 bill+ evals then all of a sudden it was registering at 722 mill evals, then gradually counted up through 886 mill, 996mill,  1.111bill,  1.208 bill, 1.485bill, and 1.663bill with each save I was manually making every 4-5 hours. (I run multiple conversions at a time so manual saves of all files is a must). So in fact all in it's more like 7billion evaluations all in for the latest Rainbow headphones conversion.

 

The norm dist counter is never affected.

 

I have also had images which exhibit this weird "evaluatons counter partial restart" behaviour twice in the same conversion.

 

It doesn't have any bearing on the conversions themselves when it occurs but I just wondered if anyone else has experienced it? Maybe it's my installation or maybe a bug in RC?

 

I couldn't say, and though I've started letting many of my conversion run upwards of the 1 billion evals mark, since with my experience I'd learned how to avoid t the line errors so often and had more success with it not happening when I ran beyond 250 mil evals, which I used to stop it around.  Not to mention that we can repair those errors now thanks to all the hard work of @drpeter and the slide show program that corrects them on the fly now.

 

 But most of my images are still completed to my standards between 500 mil and 1 Billion. I still go by the rule that if it isn't resolving mostly by then, it never will resolve good enough without changing settings and trying again. I just move the marker up by 2 to 5 times the evals.

 

But I have decade old PC's and if I run more than one conversion at a time on them they slowdown to a crawl and often may sit non responsive (intermittently, not constantly, I'm running a conversion right now and on the internet typing with no problems currently) for many minutes before moving on, with just one conversion running in the background. 1 Billion evals takes my computer about 12-18 hours to reach and by then I know if the image will resolve to my liking or not and I'm ready to move on or change setting and restart. If I could do more at a time, I'd have more time to let them run longer. Currently I can run about three at a time, 2 on the PC I'm not currently using (one in my man-cave in the house and the other in my shop/office trailer.) and 1 on the PC I'm currently using. Overnight I might run 4 at a time. but each conversion runs at half-speed anyway.

Edited by Gunstar
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