Images generated by RastaConverter

[Gunstar]

One of the problems with dithering is the output picture doesn't really have dithering used in it during conversions, the dithering is done to the destination picture. Rastaconverter then just attempts to copy every pixel from the destination image which IS what is actually dithered when converted from the source image. It actually makes it harder for Rastaconverter to convert to the output, as it introduces more detail to the destination picture it is attempting to copy.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Gunstar

[Rybags]

Probably not really practical to do it any other way since the process of generating the kernal is a random evolutionary thing where best match for the colour changes is attempted on a known target image.

The alternative would be an evolving kernal against an evolving image which could take days.

 

But since the GUI version shows you the progress, for a given dither type you'll usually get an idea if it's going to be worthwhile or not fairly quickly.  It's like 90% of the work is done in the first 30 seconds then the next 1-1000 minutes does the remaining 10%

 

[Gunstar]

General Lee. 73 colors.

 

GL01.xex

[Gunstar]

On 4/14/2020 at 11:08 AM, Rybags said:

 

The alternative would be an evolving kernal against an evolving image which could take days.

 

Yes, I realize that. Just like people commenting how cool these images would have been "back in the day," (assuming at least a VGA standard for color depth on the computer doing the converting) but a similar program on any personal computer back then would have taken weeks or months to complete an image. A super computer of the day would have been required I'd think.  

 

However, I think a paint program for the Atari could be made that could come close to this, with the use of DLI's and P/M's, though at least one missle would be needed for a cursor to draw with. So we could have had great art back then if someone had thought of programming an Atari paint program that works to display pictures as the .xex results of Rastaconverter do, I think. I'd like to see it done today.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Gunstar

[Rybags]

The colour standard in use wouldn't have mattered.  24 bit colour I'm fairly sure dates to the early 90s or before in a consumer sense.  Typically the print industry is ahead and uses higher standards.   The poor plebs in consumer-land were promised 10 bit per channel colour or better years ago but it's not materialised yet.

Though for 3D stuff the move to FP rather than integer for calculations and doing calcs using a higher bit depth has helped.

Since RC is calculating the near match in software it's "theoretical" type work that's not dependent on your installed hardware.

 

But yeah - look at the processing power needed - we can get a decent looking image in under a minute fairly often but that's based on a 3+ GHz beast running 8 threads.

Compare to a typical desktop of the early 2000s which would have been single-core, 32 bit and a touch over 1 GHz, which in itself would be lucky to do the same job in 12 minutes.

So fair to say an Atari based version if possible would be in the order of days.

But a reasonable contemporary might be a '486 - which was introduced near EOL of the Atari 8-bits.   A quick one might approach 1/12th the speed of our 1 GHz CPU of a decade later, so a touch under 2.5 hours for that same RC picture quality (maybe).

Edited April 16, 2020 by Rybags

[Gunstar]

I was referring to the quality of the source material to be converted. Before VGA, there wasn't any source material available to the common user to convert, maybe some Amiga HAM or ST Spectrum stuff post-'85.

[kiwilove]

13 hours ago, Gunstar said:

Yes, I realize that. Just like people commenting how cool these images would have been "back in the day," (assuming at least a VGA standard for color depth on the computer doing the converting) but a similar program on any personal computer back then would have taken weeks or months to complete an image. A super computer of the day would have been required I'd think.  

 

However, I think a paint program for the Atari could be made that could come close to this, with the use of DLI's and P/M's, though at least one missle would be needed for a cursor to draw with. So we could have had great art back then if someone had thought of programming an Atari paint program that works to display pictures as the .xex results of Rastaconverter do, I think. I'd like to see it done today.

Pushing the envelope back in the day -  a reasonable try at it, was the Technical Colour Dream program.  It's amazing how much you can forget - can't recall how that program worked when using it.  It allowed you to colourize a captured video image (via Computereyes) - I tried out a couple - same with drawing images with it.  The low horizontal resolution was a problem to deal with.  I did borrow Computereyes over a weekend to try out - and had difficulty finding suitable images (from movies) to digitize.  Most images would turn out too blurry to make use of.  You were limited to only 'Close up' shots.

Didn't give Rambrandt a try - I guess I didn't have the enthusiasm to spend a lot of time with it.

 

I don't think there's much point with someone creating a Rasterconverter type paint program - but it would be nice to have it, if only to touch up Rasterconverted images - to clean them up more, etc.  Just a personal opinion.

Like to see more people putting their input into improving the graphic look of the videogames - that it makes the programmers work look even more impressive.

 

Harvey

 

 

[Rybags]

Yeah, source material.  Sort of easy to forget about that.  There was reasonable stuff around by the mid 80s though not real common.

[Gunstar]

10 hours ago, kiwilove said:

 

 

I don't think there's much point with someone creating a Rasterconverter type paint program

 

Harvey

 

 

there is to me, as an artist. I'd love it. I don't care for using PC programs like Graph2font or whatever to make Atari art, I want to do it on an Atari. I would use my work in my own programs too, like graphic text adventures. So your comment is purely speculative opinion.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Gunstar

[Gunstar]

@kiwiloveThere are already some comparable art programs out these days, for the Atari, but just PD stuff with simple interfaces and menus, nothing really commercial quality though, that use the mixed HIP and TIP and other graphic modes, with 64+ colors or so, which is about the average one gets out of Rasta images anyway, but Rasta images don't have the flickering and of course the larger palette. I used Technicolor Dream back in the day, and Rambrandt, among others. Technicolor Dream's low resoulution and alternating grayscale or color lines too boot just don't cut it any more with software mixed-mode alternatives we have these days.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Gunstar

[Rybags]

An RC paint program:  Some problems like - a change to one scanline will affect the ones after such as a colour register change causing another to be needed where it wasn't before.

What might work is one that lets you freehand but monitors the potential number of changes needed between scanlines and has a heatmap bar at the right to inform you of how likely there is to be problems in the conversion process.

[Gunstar]

The program might be able to be program where one draws/paints using markers (not sharpie), standard DLI use, but when you run out of base four colors per line, patterns are designated as extra colors, but don't turn into those colors until an .xex is produced at the end, like Rastaconverter. So then all the stuff you refer to there isn't done until the artist is done and the .xex is made.

[drpeter]

Emu

 

Came across this image over on the Prince of Persia thread...

 

Yes, really!

 

13 colours

 

 

drpeter_Emu.xex

[amarok]

Old pick up truck in grass field, 61 colors.

 

amarok_pickup.xex

[ivop]

I love it how different people, using the same automated conversion software, still develop a certain style of their own!

 

[+gnusto]

Halle Berry (PAL palette)

 

Halle.xex

[amarok]

Sketch of an old tram in Lisbon, Portugal. 36 colors.

 

amarok_tram_sketch.xex

[drpeter]

Mount Taranaki, New Zealand

 

58 colours

 

Often compared in appearance to Mount Fuji in Japan, Taranaki stood in for the latter as a backdrop in the movie The Last Samurai.

 

The Māori name means 'shining peak'

 

Taranaki is an active volcano whose last major eruption was in ~1655

drpeter_Taranaki.xex

Edited April 26, 2020 by drpeter
typo

[drpeter]

The Langdale Pikes

 

English Lake District, viewed across Great Langdale from Side Pike.

 

The highpoint on the skyline is Harrison Stickle, separated  from Thorn Crag to the left by the deep cleft of Dungeon Ghyll, then progressively to the left the peaks of Loft Crag and Pike O'Stickle.

To the right of Harrison Stickle is the arched face of Pavey Ark.

 

Directly ahead at the foot of the fells is Middle Fell Farm.

 

Viewpoint: 54.43901,-3.09195  Looking NW
 

Area in view: https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/54.45455,-3.13038,14

43 colours

 

 

drpeter_Langdales.xex

[a8isa1]

5 hours ago, drpeter said:

Mount Taranaki, New Zealand

 

58 colours

 

Often compared in appearance to Mount Fuji in Japan, Taranaki stood in for the latter as a backdrop in the movie The Last Samurai.

 

The Māori name means 'shining peak'

 

Taranaki is an active volcano whose last major eruption was in ~1655

drpeter_Taranaki.xex 22.25 kB · 19 downloads

Gorgeous!

 

It's nearly impossible to pull off gradients with such low resolution and I think you did.  That said, it's the shore line that blows my mind.

[Gunstar]

Full Service. 65 colors.

FullService.xex

[drpeter]

Lake Dobbiaco, Italian Dolomites

 

59 colours

 

 

drpeter_Dobbiaco.xex

[Jetboot Jack]

On 4/17/2020 at 3:45 PM, Gunstar said:

there is to me, as an artist. I'd love it. I don't care for using PC programs like Graph2font or whatever to make Atari art, I want to do it on an Atari. I would use my work in my own programs too, like graphic text adventures. So your comment is purely speculative opinion.

 

Absolutely valid idea, I used to love working with EPYX Fun With Art - very powerful compared with other tools at the time. But very limiting and stopped the exploration of the target platforms's full power as image creation tools and techniques easily exceed the working RAM and storage abilities of 8bit machines even when the machine can display the images created - hence why cross development tools are used for games development rather than on hardware tools...

 

Did anyone creating commercial artwork for games ever use the native tools on the target platform after about '83/'84? As soon as possible I started using ST/PC/Amiga or other cross development tools to create stuff for the 8bit platforms - I think my first non native art package was MacPaint and Prism on the Amiga development kits.

 

sTeVE

Edited April 28, 2020 by Jetboot Jack

[Gunstar]

1 hour ago, Jetboot Jack said:

 

Absolutely valid idea, I used to love working with EPYX Fun With Art - very powerful compared with other tools at the time. But very limiting and stopped the exploration of the target platforms's full power as image creation tools and techniques easily exceed the working RAM and storage abilities of 8bit machines even when the machine can display the images created - hence why cross development tools are used for games development rather than on hardware tools...

 

Did anyone creating commercial artwork for games ever use the native tools on the target platform after about '83/'84? As soon as possible I started using ST/PC/Amiga or other cross development tools to create stuff for the 8bit platforms - I think my first non native art package was MacPaint and Prism on the Amiga development kits.

 

sTeVE

Absolutely valid points if your end game is only getting something done for the Atari with the best possible tools to keep up with the industry and all of that. But when your end game is to do the art on an Atari because using the Atari and having fun using it is as important as what you want to create if not more so, then using the PC is out of the question because you are using the PC and not the Atari.

 

This is about combining two hobbies I love; art and my Atari 8-bit. I don't want to do art on a PC; I want to do art on my Atari, to have fun using my Atari. I like to convert other's art and photos from the PC, but if it's my own artwork, if I'm not going to have fun using my Atari too, but if it comes down to doing art on a PC for the Atari, I'll just paint on canvis and convert it with Rastaconverter. 

 

There are already some good Atari apps, as far as using TIP and HIP, etc. mixed-mode software, similar amounts of colors on screen, compared to the average Rastaconverter puts out, and similar resolutions, but not quite up to par of the results from Rastaconversions or PC apps like Graph2Font, but there could be, for artists, like me, that want to have fun doing art ON the Atari.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Gunstar

[amarok]

Sunset with a horse, 29 colors.

 

amarok_sunset_horse.xex