Mr. Postman Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) so which came first on these? puzzy, bit, zimag? Puzzy (Pu Ze) was the main corporation that owned Bit, Bit-Corp was the main developer for these games, and Zimag was just a random irrelevant publisher of these games for the USA market. So it was the standard "Corporation -> Develeoper -> Publisher" type of release for ZiMag. Edited July 17, 2012 by Mr. Postman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) Chuys repro-as-original ebay scam aside, can anybody tell me the changes that ZiMAG made in comparison to the normal Bit-corp releases that RomHunter mentioned? How are the ZiMAG releases any different from the Bit or Puzzy releases? Graphically the ZiMAG versions are different from the Puzzy/Bit Corporation versions. Compare the screenshots to see what I mean: http://www.atarimani...r_2439_2_G.html http://www.atarimani...her_27_2_G.html BTW: the first picture on this page is the officially released NTSC cart from Bit Corporation: http://www.atarimani...home_18790.html Edited July 17, 2012 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dino Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 so which came first on these? puzzy, bit, zimag? Puzzy (Pu Ze) was the main corporation that owned Bit, Bit-Corp was the main developer for these games, and Zimag was just a random irrelevant publisher of these games for the USA market. So it was the standard "Corporation -> Develeoper -> Publisher" type of release for ZiMag. Mr Postman, Romhunter summed up Puzzy and ZiMAG quite comprehensively in his response to your questions. I can add a few additional theories and info to his comments. Bitcorp originally tried marketing their games to mail-order sellers in the US and failed dismally. Nobody was ever going to buy crappy/foreign sounding games by a crappy sounding company (originally "Puzzy"). I am fairly certain that the name "Puzzy" was a brand rather than the name of the manufacturer/developer. After being told that the name "Puzzy" was quite unmarketable to Europeans, the Puzzy was dropped in favour of Bitcorp. That explains why on PG201-205 both Puzzy (brand) and Bitcorp (business name) appeared on the label. After PG205 only the Bitcorp name was used. I am now absolutely certain that PG206-209 were not released in Puzzy format. After failing to get US mail order sellers to sell their games, Bitcorp decided to establish its own "presence" in the US. This was in the form of ZiMAG. US employees were employed to market the games, translate the game names and instructions and sell the games, but the name ZiMAG (originally it was going to be ZigMAG) was chosen by the Taiwanese. In fact, the ZiMAG brand still operates in Taiwan (http://www.zimag.com...english13-3.php) in "Pu Zai" Industrial Area of all places, and was likely the very factory that produced the games (check out the industries they operate in and its pretty clear they could make computer games). After this bold move sales improved slightly and today ZiMAG games are of moderate rarity. The courage to go in direct may have come about after they established Ultravision and they followed the same business model. I am certain that the manufacturer/developer behind Bitcorp established various "brands" for their games in different markets. Brands such as Homevision, Ultravision, Puzzy (later Bitcorp) were the upmarket brands, with nicer artwork, game cases, T handles and boxes and were thus more expensive, did not sell and are extremely rare today). Medium level brands were Suntek and Rainbowvision, Goliath etc and they are of moderate rarity today and then there were the myriad of "pirate" brands (spacevision, supervision etc) which provided cheap versions of Bitcorp's own games and pirates of just about every other label in existence. There are literally hundreds of different label variations of these pirate carts, but tonnes were sold back in the day. At the end of the day it was likely that there were one or two related or unrelated manufacturers that produced all the games coming out of taiwan and behind it/them was the Bitcorp business. Hope this helps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Very well explained, Dino. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Postman Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) Chuys repro-as-original ebay scam aside, can anybody tell me the changes that ZiMAG made in comparison to the normal Bit-corp releases that RomHunter mentioned? How are the ZiMAG releases any different from the Bit or Puzzy releases? Graphically the ZiMAG versions are different from the Puzzy/Bit Corporation versions. Compare the screenshots to see what I mean: http://www.atarimani...r_2439_2_G.html http://www.atarimani...her_27_2_G.html BTW: the first picture on this page is the officially released NTSC cart from Bit Corporation: http://www.atarimani...home_18790.html Awesome! Thanks for helping me out by linking side by side screens. I guess they were so similar that I overlooked the obvious differences! I never bought any ZiMag games before until last week since I thought they were the same as the Bit versions that I already owned with a different copyright. Darn you and your knowledge, RomHunter! so which came first on these? puzzy, bit, zimag? Puzzy (Pu Ze) was the main corporation that owned Bit, Bit-Corp was the main developer for these games, and Zimag was just a random irrelevant publisher of these games for the USA market. So it was the standard "Corporation -> Develeoper -> Publisher" type of release for ZiMag. Mr Postman, Romhunter summed up Puzzy and ZiMAG quite comprehensively in his response to your questions. I can add a few additional theories and info to his comments. Bitcorp originally tried marketing their games to mail-order sellers in the US and failed dismally. Nobody was ever going to buy crappy/foreign sounding games by a crappy sounding company (originally "Puzzy"). I am fairly certain that the name "Puzzy" was a brand rather than the name of the manufacturer/developer. After being told that the name "Puzzy" was quite unmarketable to Europeans, the Puzzy was dropped in favour of Bitcorp. That explains why on PG201-205 both Puzzy (brand) and Bitcorp (business name) appeared on the label. After PG205 only the Bitcorp name was used. I am now absolutely certain that PG206-209 were not released in Puzzy format. After failing to get US mail order sellers to sell their games, Bitcorp decided to establish its own "presence" in the US. This was in the form of ZiMAG. US employees were employed to market the games, translate the game names and instructions and sell the games, but the name ZiMAG (originally it was going to be ZigMAG) was chosen by the Taiwanese. In fact, the ZiMAG brand still operates in Taiwan (http://www.zimag.com...english13-3.php) in "Pu Zai" Industrial Area of all places, and was likely the very factory that produced the games (check out the industries they operate in and its pretty clear they could make computer games). After this bold move sales improved slightly and today ZiMAG games are of moderate rarity. The courage to go in direct may have come about after they established Ultravision and they followed the same business model. I am certain that the manufacturer/developer behind Bitcorp established various "brands" for their games in different markets. Brands such as Homevision, Ultravision, Puzzy (later Bitcorp) were the upmarket brands, with nicer artwork, game cases, T handles and boxes and were thus more expensive, did not sell and are extremely rare today). Medium level brands were Suntek and Rainbowvision, Goliath etc and they are of moderate rarity today and then there were the myriad of "pirate" brands (spacevision, supervision etc) which provided cheap versions of Bitcorp's own games and pirates of just about every other label in existence. There are literally hundreds of different label variations of these pirate carts, but tonnes were sold back in the day. At the end of the day it was likely that there were one or two related or unrelated manufacturers that produced all the games coming out of taiwan and behind it/them was the Bitcorp business. Hope this helps. Both you guys have been of great help with your wealth of information. From what I have been reading up on, The Taiwanese Bit Corporation was also called 普澤 (Puze). As you stated about, I guess this was indeed a brand name for Bit corp, since apparently Bit Corp was already established. Funny, I Think having a game company called Pu Ze located in Pu Zai was probably great sounding to consumers in localized markets, but fell flat on it's face when romanized as you noted. (I tried editing this post to add the chinese characters for Puze, but it appears this website does not support such characters) Edited July 18, 2012 by Mr. Postman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Postman Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) What's up with the color scheme on my NTSC Zimag Dishaster? The colors on AtariMania look very different? I have 4 displays I test my VCS carts on. A modern NTSC LCD that will not display Pal games at all, a modern NTSC LCD that will display PAL games in Black and white or rolling B&W, a CRT that will only display NTSC games in color, and a CRT that will play both NTSC/PAL. The above photo was taken on the NTSC-only LCD display. Edit: Youtube videos of emulation show the same colors. Edited July 18, 2012 by Mr. Postman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Weird. Must be screenshots from our old database that for some unknown reason contained a different ROM. I'll update the correct screenshots as soon as possible and verify other versions as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 (edited) Yes, the NTSC ZiMAG Dishaster screenshots were shown in the PAL color palette. It's fixed now. Thanks for mentioning! Edited July 19, 2012 by Rom Hunter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Postman Posted July 7, 2017 Author Share Posted July 7, 2017 I was insanely lucky to score the official NTSC BIT Corp 8-in-1. If it's relevant information for Romhunter, the item was obtained from a seller in Mexico. All the games have the Bit Corp logo on screen. Pretty cool, only official NTSC Mr. Postman release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 I was insanely lucky to score the official NTSC BIT Corp 8-in-1. If it's relevant information for Romhunter, the item was obtained from a seller in Mexico. All the games have the Bit Corp logo on screen. Pretty cool, only official NTSC Mr. Postman release. Nice! Is there a label underneath the black label? Could you make a nice front picture / scan of the cart for the database? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Postman Posted July 7, 2017 Author Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) Nice! Is there a label underneath the black label? Could you make a nice front picture / scan of the cart for the database? There is no label underneath. Unfortunately I don't have access to a scanner ATM, my apologies. I can try to take a straight on picture tomorrow outside in natural light though. I notice this is undumped, how do you dump a multicart without removing the label to desolder the chip? Edited July 7, 2017 by Mr. Postman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_79 Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 I notice this is undumped, how do you dump a multicart without removing the label to desolder the chip? In case of multicarts like the one in the pic, you just set the switches for each game and dump them one at a time, like a standard cart. Things are a bit different for multicarts using an on-screen menu, but it is usually possible to dump those too without opening the case. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Unfortunately I don't have access to a scanner ATM, my apologies. I can try to take a straight on picture tomorrow outside in natural light though. Would be great. Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Postman Posted July 7, 2017 Author Share Posted July 7, 2017 In case of multicarts like the one in the pic, you just set the switches for each game and dump them one at a time, like a standard cart. Things are a bit different for multicarts using an on-screen menu, but it is usually possible to dump those too without opening the case. Awesome, thx! Would be great. Thanks! No problem. Off-Topic: One day I'll dig out that Thailand Indiana Jones cart from storage and maybe print you up a poster. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Awesome, thx! No problem. Off-Topic: One day I'll dig out that Thailand Indiana Jones cart from storage and maybe print you up a poster. Would be awesome. Thanks, man. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Postman Posted July 7, 2017 Author Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) Now that so much time has passed, how do we feel about the chicken & egg situation with the names? Afterall, the Ample Ace Samples/Protos do have a Bit Corp copyright on screen, correct? I wonder why "PG2XX" was the designation for the titles? I always took PG as "Puzzy Game". Maybe PG is short for Program? Edited July 7, 2017 by Mr. Postman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Postman Posted July 7, 2017 Author Share Posted July 7, 2017 Was Snail Against Squirrel (Snail On Squirrel) the only BIT title without an official NTSC release? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Was Snail Against Squirrel (Snail On Squirrel) the only BIT title without an official NTSC release? I think all nine Bit Corporation titles were released in NTSC format. Some day Snail Acinst Squirrel NTSC will pop up as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Postman Posted July 7, 2017 Author Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) Oh, and were the official Bit 4-in-1 carts only sold in the 27 Target Stores operating in Australia at the time? I really do wonder where the NTSC 8-in-1 was sold? Any clue on the rarity besides the one pictured on AtariMania and mine, or are those the only two? I have contacted the seller inquiring about the provenance. Edited July 7, 2017 by Mr. Postman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Postman Posted July 7, 2017 Author Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) Also, I found it rather surprising that BIT lowered themselves to using games from other companies At the end on multis, but they did have their copyright on the box and survived as a company until at least 1992. Maybe they had some permission, but IDK. They later switched their designation from PG2XX to PGP2XX for multis later in the game regardless of title. Coleco used PG9XX designation instead of PG2 (2=2600?). The NTSC Multi retains the original PG naming format instead of PGP like the official Australian Multi releases so it probably came first. Just thinking out loud: Could the later multis be Puzzy Game/Puzzy Game PAL? Probably not, the original PAL releases were also simply PG. Why the change from PG to PGP? PGP is yet another mystery to me. The only sense it makes to me (at this point) is to differentiate the region of official multicarts? Edited July 7, 2017 by Mr. Postman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Postman Posted July 7, 2017 Author Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) I sincerely await legitimate responses, but I do find humor in the lack of Puzzy fans. Lol Edited July 7, 2017 by Mr. Postman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Postman Posted July 7, 2017 Author Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) I think all nine Bit Corporation titles were released in NTSC format. Some day Snail Acinst Squirrel NTSC will pop up as well. I'd take you up on that bet, unless you mean the slim but plausible possibility of an Ample Ace Proto surfacing. The only reason it was cut from the 8-in-1 is because it wouldn't have worked out with physical switches as a 9-in-1. A shame that there weren't 10 games available as it could have been a complete collection that would have worked out as a physical switch multi. Mission 3000 A.D., Snail Against Squirell & Mr. Postman came so late that I don't believe singular carts will surface. But, at least in Multi form Mission has made a few appearances and Postman one, so Squirrel could pop up on a multi. Once Puzzy went away, our only hope was Zimag for singular *official* NTSC releases, I think (even if slightly modified). With only 2 copies of the NTSC multi known with Postman, I'd say if or when Squirrel pops up it will also be an exciting find. As I myself don't own a mission, I do believe the post-Puzzy BIT official NTSC carts are all insanely rare. My views are only subjective based on current knowledge of available carts. Rom Hunter really is the authority on most of these subjects. Edited July 7, 2017 by Mr. Postman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMTownsMarty Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Damn, that multi is awesome! Would you take 500 for it? I need it for my Bit set but have never seen it before. Please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Postman Posted July 7, 2017 Author Share Posted July 7, 2017 Damn, that multi is awesome! Would you take 500 for it? I need it for my Bit set but have never seen it before. Please? Thank you, but no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMTownsMarty Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) Damn, ok. What if I made you an offer you couldn't refuse? Around the 1200 area? I really need this for my NTSC set. I've not seen it and don't want to miss it. Edited July 7, 2017 by FMTownsMarty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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