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ACML

anyone have a 1200XL with rev 11 OS?

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Hmm, I thought my Atarimax 32-in-1 OS has both rev 10 and 11 1200XL OS's as selections, but I just checked and the options are:

M. 1200XL (REV 5)

N. 1200XL (REV 10)

 

I knew there was 10 and 11, wth is 5?

 

Edit: some comparisons... "Rev 5" has a ® next to the rainbow Atari logo screen, 10 does now.

 

SI2 identifies this:

"Rev 5" as OS Serial # AA 1.11, 23.Dec.82.

"Rev 10" as OS Serial # AA 00.10, 26.Oct.82

 

So it seems "Rev 5" is newer, and actually the "Rev 11" commonly referred to.

 

I'll have to binary compare a ROM dump of these to my real 1200XL, which I believe has rev 11.

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Just noticed this is another old thread re-emerging...

Yep, I now see your comment confirming rev 5 is actually rev 11. Cheers!

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Does anyone have a 1200XL that shipped with the rev 11 OS? Both rev 10 and 11 have the ATARI splash screen, but rev 11 has the trademark ® to the right of the "I". Rev 11 has bug fixes, but I have never seen an actual stock 1200XL that shipped with rev 11. Rev 11 is way more compatible with 400/800 games than rev 10 and its almost identical to the 600/800XL OS. I think Atari gave up the splash screen for PBI capability in the 800XL OS. Just wanted to know if Atari ever shipped rev 11 or was it fixed but never made it into production since the 1200XL had such a short run.

My 1200XL has the (tiny R in a circle) to the right, next to the "I".

What difference is there? Different OS?

Has 83S DA 0 25206 153 on the bottom.

( I see the R in a circle is for the splash screen, not the label on the bottom)

OK, mine doesn't have an 'R' in circle on the splash screen, just the rolling rainbow 'ATARI'.

Edited by russg

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With ® = Rev 10

Without ® = Rev 11

 

Also, in the keyboard part of the self test test all function, I think Rev 10 types one of the programmers names, whereas Rev 11 types "© 1983 ATARI" or something close to that.

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With ® = Rev 10

Without ® = Rev 11

 

Also, in the keyboard part of the self test test all function, I think Rev 10 types one of the programmers names, whereas Rev 11 types "© 1983 ATARI" or something close to that.

I think you have that backwards.

With an ® in the splash screen = Rev 11

Without a ® in the splash screen = Rev 10

My theory remains that Atari fixed the original Rev 10 OS (now Rev 11) and probably planned to update the ROMS, but the production run of the 1200XL was so short, that they elected to use all the Rev 10s they already had in stock.

Edited by ACML

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What's the difference? W/o looking at the source code (which is available) Atari Tech Tips state to replace with B "If the consumer complained about the improper function of the SYSTEM RESET key. There are no other difference between Rev. A and Rev. B." Improper function is defined as "difficulty with the SYTSEM RESET key" Although we all know there has to be more than just that and the ® and keyboard tests.

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The tech tips often used clues to help someone quickly select the proper fix without having to to any forensic on the Atari, customer complains about reset issues, reset key is funny, know issues, follow tsb open it up and replace rom, all other fixes do not need to be listed. Test machine for function. All good? Send it on it's way. Happy tech. and happy customer.

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What's the difference? W/o looking at the source code (which is available) Atari Tech Tips state to replace with B "If the consumer complained about the improper function of the SYSTEM RESET key. There are no other difference between Rev. A and Rev. B." Improper function is defined as "difficulty with the SYTSEM RESET key" Although we all know there has to be more than just that and the ® and keyboard tests.

The differences between Rev 10 and 11 are significant with respect to compatibility. I have run countless games and programs on both versions of the 1200XL OS and there are several that have issues with Rev 10, but run fine on Rev 11. I found, again through exhaustive testing, that Rev 11 is ~95% compatible with the 600XL/800XL OS. There were very few titles that Rev 11 could not run. By contrast, Rev 10 not only could not run many 400/800 OSB programs, but it also could not run several programs that will run just fine on a 600XL and 800XL. I'd guess that Rev 11 is almost the same OS as the 600XL and 800XL OS.

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The differences between Rev 10 and 11 are significant with respect to compatibility. I have run countless games and programs on both versions of the 1200XL OS and there are several that have issues with Rev 10, but run fine on Rev 11. I found, again through exhaustive testing, that Rev 11 is ~95% compatible with the 600XL/800XL OS. There were very few titles that Rev 11 could not run. By contrast, Rev 10 not only could not run many 400/800 OSB programs, but it also could not run several programs that will run just fine on a 600XL and 800XL. I'd guess that Rev 11 is almost the same OS as the 600XL and 800XL OS.

 

In hindsight, that would make sense that 11 is more compatible with XL software since the XL OS was derived from it. However, I don’t want the impression given that 10 was the incompatability reason the 1200 failed (although it adds some credence to it but the main reason being it wasn’t compatible with the 400/800). I would suggest trying one of the later XL OS iterations (not officially released) where parts of the B OS locations were restored and thus a translator disk is not needed as often.

 

I am curious however about the “numerous fixes” mentioned in the source code for 11 and what they were vs 11 just being closer to the 600XL OS.

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actually incompatibility without much gain showing at the time was a big deal breaker and in fact contributed to the 1200XL's fall... once the fixes were done many people thought it had become one of the best. Translators help cover the last part of some issues as well. Once the better and enhanced titles showed up it looked better but massive changes and delays for change of Atari leadership and manufacturing, and the times well all that you already know...

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I think you have that backwards.

With an ® in the splash screen = Rev 11

Without a ® in the splash screen = Rev 10

My theory remains that Atari fixed the original Rev 10 OS (now Rev 11) and probably planned to update the ROMS, but the production run of the 1200XL was so short, that they elected to use all the Rev 10s they already had in stock.

 

Yes you are correct, I had it backwards! And re name that types out in self test - i tried out the BASIC program in this previous thread: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/272474-atari-800xl-os-programmers-name-in-rom/

 

Rev 10: "Michael Colburn◆;,"

Rev 11: "Copyright1983Atari"

 

:)

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On a sidenote what’s the easiest and cheapest way to upgrade a stock 1200XL to rev 11 OS?

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Easiest and cheapest is probably....Best Electronics. He sell the ROMS for 10.00 each (2 needed) plus shipping... Its as simple as pulling Rev.10 and replacing with new Rev.11.

 

CO60616B (1200 XL Rev. "B" OS) $10.00

CO60617B (1200 XL Rev. "B" OS) $10.00

I just did mine but I removed the two Rev. 10 ROMS, replaced the sockets with 28 pin, swapped the MMU and burnt Rev. 11 into 27C128 eprom and also added a shift reset patch...

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The differences between Rev 10 and 11 are significant with respect to compatibility. I have run countless games and programs on both versions of the 1200XL OS and there are several that have issues with Rev 10, but run fine on Rev 11. I found, again through exhaustive testing, that Rev 11 is ~95% compatible with the 600XL/800XL OS. There were very few titles that Rev 11 could not run. By contrast, Rev 10 not only could not run many 400/800 OSB programs, but it also could not run several programs that will run just fine on a 600XL and 800XL. I'd guess that Rev 11 is almost the same OS as the 600XL and 800XL OS.

That's right. Besides some fixes in system reset routines, the main change in rev. 11 is reordering of many procedures without changing their functionality, and reintroduction of a few unofficial OS vectors commonly used by older software. Both changes improved compatibility with 400/800 programs. Then, comparing rev. 11 with the 600XL rev. 1, the only change (besides minor bug fixes) was they ditched the power-up screen and replaced it with support for PBI and on-board BASIC. So, rev. 11 is actually much closer to rev. 1 than to rev. 10.

 

Yes you are correct, I had it backwards! And re name that types out in self test - i tried out the BASIC program in this previous thread: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/272474-atari-800xl-os-programmers-name-in-rom/

 

Rev 10: "Michael Colburn◆;,"

Rev 11: "Copyright1983Atari"

 

:)

Huh? The typed text was not changed to "Copyright1983Atari" until 600/800XL rev. 2. If you're seeing it on your 1200XL, then either you have a different OS revision than 10 or 11, or a previously-unknown OS variant. Could you verify which is the case?

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Woops, I must have had the wrong OS selected in my 800XL 32-in-1...

 

You're right it says Michael Colburn◆;," in 1200XL Rev10 & 11, and 600/800XL rev.1 too.

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My main question : Is any benefit in 1200XL OS Rev 11 rather than OS Rev 10 ? Any difference between ? Any suggestions ? Because I did tested on Altirra emulator and it looks the same between 10 & 11 ?? Not count "R" copyright.

 

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Posted (edited)

I use it in my main 1200xl.  I don’t see many (if any) incompatibilities with older software.  To me now I’d rather use this 1200xl over a 800xl or 130xe.  In fact I just ordered a Rambo xl board for it and am adding a video UAV to it as well.

Edited by atariguy44

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9 hours ago, Caterpiggle said:

My main question : Is any benefit in 1200XL OS Rev 11 rather than OS Rev 10 ? Any difference between ? Any suggestions ? Because I did tested on Altirra emulator and it looks the same between 10 & 11 ?? Not count "R" copyright.

 

yes, the benefit is if you have a 1200XL with Rev11 you are much more likely to not experience software compatibility issues, the majority of which are caused by programmers not following published entry points and saving a few bytes.  Of course, Atari wasn't one to originally publish a lot of information (At first!) so it makes me wonder how much is a developers fault vs Atari's, but there were at least three years of software released between the 400/800 and the 1200.  Even Atari as I recall didn't follow their own rules at times with some of their own software.

 

Just put the Rev2 XL OS in the 1200 and be happy!

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Rev 11 is much more compatible than Rev 10.  I ran Rev 10 for a while, found many titles that didn't like Rev 10, but they work fine on Rev 11.  I think Rev 11 is very close the the 600/800XL OS.

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Hello ACML ,

 

Can you give me an few example some games that does not work on Rev 10 instead Rev 11 ? Thank you , so that I MAY know which games that does working prefect on Rev 11 instead of Rev 10 !

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38 minutes ago, Caterpiggle said:

Hello ACML ,

 

Can you give me an few example some games that does not work on Rev 10 instead Rev 11 ? Thank you , so that I MAY know which games that does working prefect on Rev 11 instead of Rev 10 !

When I was testing the Rev 10 vs 11 versions, it's been a few years now, too far back to remember.  I do remember is was several games that would not run under rev 10, but did fine with rev 11.

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2 hours ago, Caterpiggle said:

Hello ACML ,

 

Can you give me an few example some games that does not work on Rev 10 instead Rev 11 ? Thank you , so that I MAY know which games that does working prefect on Rev 11 instead of Rev 10 !

There were a handful that I found, but I can't remember which ones they were.  It really is more compatible.

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One example I remember diving into recently was run-from-disk versions of some programming languages that were designs to run from cartridge, like Designers Pencil, Atari BASIC, Pilot, Assembler editor which require moving the screen memory below the area used by the code which loads into the high RAM where the cartridge would normally reside... They did direct JMP's to OS routines, rather than push of the address from the vector to the stack, then RTS. This will ensure the routine works on all three "common" Atari OS where vectors are different: 1: 400/800, 2: 1200XL Rev 10, and 3: The rest of XL/XE.

 

These ones could be fixed by improving the initilization routine to move MEMTOP and re-initialize S: via the vector, and also moving MEMTOP 4K lower on 400/800 OS to work around the editor corrupting some bytes above MEMTOP (which is normally not an issue since its ROM/unallocated in the memory map):

 

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