Rey Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) I can backup pretty much everything phattyboombatty posted except that I just use the VGA output on my LED monitor and love it. The display is absolutely gorgeous and one of the best mods out there for the Coleco and ADAM.I'll try to post a video or two showing how the flicker is under control with this chip. A game like burgertime, when you're at one of the levels and two enemies get on the same level it turns into a flicker fest. None of that with the F18A Edited January 24, 2015 by rey_1178 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+grips03 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 F18a is awesome. Highly recommended. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I have a question concerning the adapter pictured below... I've never seen a TV or monitor with an HDMI port that did not also have a VGA port too. I'm guessing they must (or did in the past) as there had to be a reason to make this device in the first place. If not, what other benefits would it give the end user? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phattyboombatty Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 So there's no flicker at all in Roc 'n Rope? That's something I'd like to see, and I won't believe it until I see it in an actual video of the game running on your system. That is correct, sir. There is no sprite flicker. Period. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phattyboombatty Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Did you force your TV to 4:3 format, or did the HDMI adapter take care of that? The HDMI adapter output at 4:3 the first time I connected it. I believe it is autoswitching. I cycled through my picture size settings just to see what other outputs would look like, and my Samsung TV allows 16:9 and a bunch of other formats. 4:3 is optimal and I think the adapter sensed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phattyboombatty Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) I have a question concerning the adapter pictured below... I've never seen a TV or monitor with an HDMI port that did not also have a VGA port too. I'm guessing they must (or did in the past) as there had to be a reason to make this device in the first place. If not, what other benefits would it give the end user? A good question! Next time you pop into a Costco or Best Buy, check out some current 55" HDTVs and up. My experience is that manufacturers have gradually reduced the amount of input and output types on baseline and mid-level models. Higher-end models may still have VGA, HDMI, S-Video, Component and Composite video inputs, but my 2014 Samsung has only HDMI and a combo Composite/Component input suite. My older Westinghouse from 2007 has every input you can think of, but that thing weighs a ton and the display is nary so bright as the LED display on my Samsung! Final answer: the biggest benefit to me is the single-cable audio and video output that HDMI so elegantly offers! Edited January 24, 2015 by phattyboombatty 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIAD Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 So there's no flicker at all in Roc 'n Rope? That's something I'd like to see, and I won't believe it until I see it in an actual video of the game running on your system. You can see the "no flicker" benefit of the F18A in Phatty's videos of DKAE in action and this is a big reason why I will be ordering the F18A to mod one of my ADAM systems. The ability to take video output all the way up to HDMI is an added benefit that I'll look into eventually. Tapper would be another good test game for the F18A and sprite flicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 That is correct, sir. There is no sprite flicker. Period. Well I'll be darned... I don't understand how this could be possible, since flicker is usually a software-driven feature, especially on the ColecoVision... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIAD Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 A good question! Next time you pop into a Costco or Best Buy, check out some current 55" HDTVs and up. My experience is that manufacturers have gradually reduced the amount of input and output types on baseline and mid-level models. Higher-end models may still have VGA, HDMI, S-Video, Component and Composite video inputs, but my 2014 Samsung has only HDMI and a combo Composite/Component input suite. My older Westinghouse from 2007 has every input you can think of, but that thing weighs a ton and the display is nary so bright as the LED display on my Samsung! Final answer: the biggest benefit to me is the single-cable audio and video output that HDMI so elegantly offers! So when your system is all wired up, I assume there is an audio cable connected between the CV and the VGA-to-HDMI Adapter and then the HDMI cable carries both audio and video to the TV? What's is that mini-port on the side of the VGA-to-HDMI Adapter? Guess I need to Google that adapter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 A good question! Next time you pop into a Costco or Best Buy, check out some current 55" HDTVs and up. My experience is that manufacturers have gradually reduced the amount of input and output types on baseline and mid-level models. Higher-end models may still have VGA, HDMI, S-Video, Component and Composite video inputs, but my 2014 Samsung has only HDMI and a combo Composite/Component input suite. My older Westinghouse from 2007 has every input you can think of, but that thing weighs a ton and the display is nary so bright as the LED display on my Samsung! Final answer: the biggest benefit to me is the single-cable audio and video output that HDMI so elegantly offers! Ahhh Sooo, the single combined audio & video does make sense considering what you say about the lack of connections on later models too. I'll keep it in mind because someday, if my present monitor fails on my F18A equipped TI-99/4A I just may need one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phattyboombatty Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Well I'll be darned... :)I don't understand how this could be possible, since flicker is usually a software-driven feature, especially on the ColecoVision... Aha! My understanding is that the 4-sprite per scanline "feature" is a limitation of the TMS9918A vdp. Because the F18A replaces that, voila! No flicker. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariBrian Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 So have you tried playing Pac-Man collection since it has flicker ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phattyboombatty Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 So when your system is all wired up, I assume there is an audio cable connected between the CV and the VGA-to-HDMI Adapter and then the HDMI cable carries both audio and video to the TV? This is exactly true. I ordered a super short "shorty" 1/8" phono adapter to tie the CV's audio out (tapped off of C88 I want to say), to the Hammerhead's audio-in port. Audio is mixed within the adapter, and thus outputs both streams through the HDMI port. What's is that mini-port on the side of the VGA-to-HDMI Adapter? Guess I need to Google that adapter. A very observant inquiry, and one that puts a dent in my argument for the "single cable output" solution! That is a mini-USB port that is used purely for power. The Hammerhead requires external power to boost its HDMI output. I ordered a super long mini-USB to USB-A cable on Amazon. I ran this cable from my HDTV (it has a handy USB port) to the mini-USB port on the Hammerhead. I've also powered it with a simple iPhone USB "cube" and a standard 3-foot USB-A to mini USB cord. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phattyboombatty Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 So have you tried playing Pac-Man collection since it has flicker ? Oh yes! Plays great! Flicker is completely eliminated from any game! Per matthew180's website: * All 32 sprites can be displayed on the same scan line. The 4-sprite maximum on a horizontal line limitation was removed. The maximum number of displayable sprites is also controlled by a new VDP register and can be programmatically set between 1 and 31 (31 is the *number* of the sprite that is the maximum, and sprites are number 0 to 31 for a total of 32). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ten-four Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I am more and more convinced that the VGA out is a must have. The image will appear clean, centered and sprite flicker disappears, what more could you want from an old ColecoVision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+5-11under Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Well I'll be darned... I don't understand how this could be possible, since flicker is usually a software-driven feature, especially on the ColecoVision... If you re-order the sprites (changing them completely) rather than temporarily deleting them (for one frame), then they should all show up. Hopefully this will make sense for 5 sprites (A-E)... Will flicker: frame 1: ABCD frame 2: ABCE Won't flicker: frame 1: ABCDE frame 2: ABCED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew180 Posted February 14, 2015 Author Share Posted February 14, 2015 Thanks everyone for the appreciation and advocacy for the F18A! About the sprite flicker. The F18A can display all 32 sprites at the same time on the same line. However, some software uses a technique typically called "sprite rotation" when the programmer would alter which sprites were displayed during a frame. Typically the rotation is done on an every-other-frame basis, so a sprite's visibility would be limited to 30 times per second instead of 60 times per second. This allowed the programmer to display a different set of four sprites every other frame to prevent them from being totally invisible. Any software that uses such techniques may exhibit perceived flicker and is completely a function of the software, not the F18A. If software tells the F18A not to display a sprite, it won't. Most of the time software did not try such rotation and in those cases all the programmed sprites will be visible and will not flicker. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Here's a video of Tapper with the F18A. Compared to the flicker fest with the original VDP, you can see how much better the game is with the F18A. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Here's another ADAM with the F18A and RCA jack for audio. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIAD Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Here's another ADAM with the F18A and RCA jack for audio. ADAM with F18A and RCA audio.jpg Now that's one sexy looking ADAM Memory Console and to not have to look at sprite flickering anymore must be incredible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I have a question concerning the adapter pictured below... I've never seen a TV or monitor with an HDMI port that did not also have a VGA port too. I'm guessing they must (or did in the past) as there had to be a reason to make this device in the first place. If not, what other benefits would it give the end user? This adapter has worked great for me. The new Samsung I got for my old consoles did not have a VGA port so this was a must. It does have pc mode for the hdmi input and it looks even better in this mode. My Adam and dreamcast look beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phattyboombatty Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 At long last, I got my chance to crack open my ADAM and do this mod (had done it on my ColecoVision before)! All I can say is that it's amazing! Clarity through the VGA cable on my old Westinghouse 42" fpd is super crisp! Pics to come, and another great surprise… it's a "Super ADAM", which plays all my SGM games with no AY sound! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPR Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 ^ That's awesome! Looking forward to the pics. I really wish there was a solution to make the F18A easier for people to install because I think if there was a drop-in mod for it, or if it just didn't require as much technical know-how, more people would buy it. It simply give the ColecoVision and ADAM a jump years ahead! It hard for me to go back and look at a CV without it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phattyboombatty Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Thanks TPR! For a techie dude like me, it was mostly an issue of A) finding the time/space to carefully remove the screws, and B) taking the time to carefully desolder the existing VDP for its preservation/non-damage of the logic board. I managed to keep all the original legs intact except for two; same for the solder pads. I wound up removing the unused pins on my socket, which made the process more go more efficiently. I plan on modding the case a bit differently for the VGA out port. That's next! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Show them pics phatty! I'm curios how you did the VGA plug. Here's mine....... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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