Thoughts on a game case for classic (pre-NES) carts

[Pixelboy]

I was thinking about Universal Game Cases on my way to work this morning. They're very good for Genesis, Super-NES and N64 carts, but they're not quite adequate for Atari, ColecoVision and Intellivision carts. I know you can just break some plastic bits in the UGC and an Atari cart will fit in there alright, but I'm not a fan of breaking containers irreparably to make stuff fit inside.

 

Let's say someone out there wanted to create a similar UGC, made specifically for pre-NES carts, what would you prefer?

 

1) The smallest case possible, just big enough to house the cart itself.

 

2) A case that's roughly the same size as the existing UGC, so that the manual can be stored inside it.

 

Of course, I expect most people will pick option #2, because keeping the manual together with the cart is a definite plus, but a smaller case is not without advantages: It would take up less storage space, and use at least one-third less plastic so it would be a little less expensive to produce. Also, small is beautiful, and more practical too.

 

As a supporter of the small case option, I picture it to be just tall enough to contain a Xonox double-ender cartridge (for either Atari or ColecoVision). Atari 5200 carts are wider and come in different shapes (BluePrint, Space Shuttle, Star Trek and Q*bert come to mind) so having a one-size-fits-all solution would require some measurement studies to accomodate the largest array of cart types. Intellivision carts could also add to the design challenge.

 

Regardless of the option selected above, I think such a case would have a very large appeal, since there are so many loose Atari/CV/Inty carts out in the wild, and many people would like to protect them. I can also envision other parties stepping in to offer replacement manuals (this would be especially nice for option #1 above, since one could design minimalistic "manual cards" for all games that would fit inside the small casing).

 

What do you guys think? Regarless of the style/dimensions of the case, would you purchase some to store your loose carts?

[uglyclone]

I'm one of many that have already invested into the universal game cases so my vote would be to go a similar size. Placing the manual in with the game is an important feature to me. If you wanted to go smaller I would ask why not just use the clear plastic baggies that some collectors use for their carts already?

Also just wanted to point out that Atari 2600 and 7800 carts fit just fine in the UGC without breaking off any plastic at all.

[onthinice]

I like option 1. I keep my manuals seperate from my older games unless they are in the original box. It would be nice to keep games protected without taking up much more space.

[Pixelboy]

I worked on a basic design for option 1, and it turned out like a mix of option 1 and option 2, meaning that it could be possible to insert the manual in the box along with the cart. See below.

 

Note that the yellow spots are pressure points: The support pieces would be just tight enough that they would hold the cart in place.

 

EDIT: Just want to point out that measurements in the image below are very rough approximations.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Pixelboy

[Protoplasym]

There is a very outgoing and energetic seller on Ebay by the name of Seymoronion

 

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 320958180523

 

Currently he sells Hu Card slips... I have some (will be giving some away at the Portland Retro Gaming Expo) and they'e of awesome quality, they feel as nice or nicer than the original product.

 

 

This man has some SERIOUS plans for custom Game Cases. He has a really nice sounding model, and he eventually plans on building custom cases for 'each' system... AND... his cases are going to have a slot for Manuals... yup, a slot for manuals. The UGC is going to instantly be rendered ancient and useless as soon as Mr. Seymoronion comes out with his custom cases. He doesn't plan on printing inserts or making mauals... he's simply going to make cases, and he hopes to be able to sell them for $a few bucks/each and still turn a profit.

 

That's the route I'm going for:

 

1. NES

2. SNES

3. GB b/w

4. GB c

5. GBA

 

 

I can't wait

[GodzillaIsMyCopilot]

I think that the OP was referring to the fact that an Atari cart will not fit snugly in a UGC without modification. This may end up creating more problems than it fixes - a new format for covers would be a very complex venture, and those already into the UGC thing may not adopt.

 

I like the idea of a case for INTV, CV, and Atari that will fit manuals, but I also like the idea of a smaller case. That said, I think manual storage would set you apart from UGCs.

 

Frankly, in my experience, most folks that collect these systems seem to like their carts loose or CIB - not much middleground. So, you're taking on a market that's relatively small to begin with. Add to that the prospect of a new cover format, and you have an uphill battle on your hands - all without delving into the potential customers that have already cased their games with UGCs, who may be very resistant to change.

 

Bottom line from me: I am all for a new way to case games that works - it's just not going to be an easy idea to realize.

 

Additional, re: Seymoronion: Again, I think that's a great idea, but, without a unified cover format, it's going to be hard to get folks to adopt. The UGC folks over at The Cover Project have been amassing covers for those for the better part of seven years or so... you can't hope to replace that kind of a community overnight. Again, not against the idea - just weary that it may not fly.

Edited September 7, 2012 by GodzillaIsMyCopilot

[Pixelboy]

There is a very outgoing and energetic seller on Ebay by the name of Seymoronion

 

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 320958180523

 

Currently he sells Hu Card slips... I have some (will be giving some away at the Portland Retro Gaming Expo) and they'e of awesome quality, they feel as nice or nicer than the original product.

 

 

This man has some SERIOUS plans for custom Game Cases. He has a really nice sounding model, and he eventually plans on building custom cases for 'each' system... AND... his cases are going to have a slot for Manuals... yup, a slot for manuals. The UGC is going to instantly be rendered ancient and useless as soon as Mr. Seymoronion comes out with his custom cases. He doesn't plan on printing inserts or making mauals... he's simply going to make cases, and he hopes to be able to sell them for $a few bucks/each and still turn a profit.

 

That's the route I'm going for:

 

1. NES

2. SNES

3. GB b/w

4. GB c

5. GBA

 

 

I can't wait

 

That's quite interesting. So where did you hear that this guy was planning to make custom cases for each system? Does that include Atari, ColecoVision and Intellivision? I'd like to have a chat with the guy, but I'd like to know a bit more first...

 

EDIT: Never mind, I found this: http://www.seymoronion.com

Edited September 7, 2012 by Pixelboy

[Pixelboy]

Additional, re: Seymoronion: Again, I think that's a great idea, but, without a unified cover format, it's going to be hard to get folks to adopt. The UGC folks over at The Cover Project have been amassing covers for those for the better part of seven years or so... you can't hope to replace that kind of a community overnight. Again, not against the idea - just weary that it may not fly.

 

From what I've seen on seymoronion.com, his cases will use the covers from The Cover Project.

[UberArcade]

I would actually prefer new homebrew games being released using plastic cases if they were readily available like this instead of original style cardboard boxes. The boxes are usually so delicate that you can't really store the game in there if you plan to play it. The printing and cutting is also expensive. So you have this nice looking box that you have to store somewhere else and never use. A plastic case like a Genesis one can be used for years and still look pretty new.

[GodzillaIsMyCopilot]

 

From what I've seen on seymoronion.com, his cases will use the covers from The Cover Project.

I stand corrected. His prices are reasonable, but are higher than UGCs (not by much, but, $0.15 higher per UGCs, and that includes the shipping price - don't know what he'll charge). In any case (no pun intended), I think it's a great idea - pre-fitted cases. I'll be sure to check them out when they are available.

[high voltage]

I'm still using Telegames UK boxes or HES AUS boxes for my VCS games as long as I find them.

[Protoplasym]

From what I've seen on seymoronion.com, his cases will use the covers from The Cover Project.

I stand corrected. His prices are reasonable, but are higher than UGCs (not by much, but, $0.15 higher per UGCs, and that includes the shipping price - don't know what he'll charge). In any case (no pun intended), I think it's a great idea - pre-fitted cases. I'll be sure to check them out when they are available.

 

? From what I know, he hasn't posted prices yet.

 

http://www.seymoronion.com/

 

I clicked on 'game cases and sleeves' and I don't see any prices for the custom Cases I was referring to.

[GodzillaIsMyCopilot]

http://www.seymoronion.com/Custom_Game_Cases/Nintendo.html

[Protoplasym]

http://www.seymoroni...s/Nintendo.html

 

Cool, I figured you saw something that I missed

 

 

Are you saying the UGC cases are a smidge cheaper than the prices he has posted in that link? If so, I would say why compare the two considering the UGC cases 'have to be modded' per system use, and they have no room for Manuals. Seymors' Cases are going to be system specific with room for the manuals. The UGC cases are useless *(edit, well not useless but a labor of love I guess you could call it, lol )* imho, because they have to be internally modded for each system (for each and every case), and there's no room for a manual. The UGC doesn't suit the purpose of replacing a case on two fronts: 1. Doesn't support systems natively and has to be modded 2. No room for Manuals.

 

Edited September 7, 2012 by Protoplasym

[GodzillaIsMyCopilot]

http://www.seymoroni...s/Nintendo.html

 

Cool, I figured you saw something that I missed

 

 

Are you saying the UGC cases are a smidge cheaper than the prices he has posted in that link? If so, I would say why compare the two considering the UGC cases 'have to be modded' per system use, and they have no room for Manuals. Seymors' Cases are going to be system specific with room for the manuals. The UGC cases are useless imho, because they have to be internally modded for each system (for each and every case), and there's no room for a manual. The UGC doesn't suit the purpose of replacing a case on two fronts: 1. Doesn't support systems natively and has to be modded 2. No room for Manuals.

 

You're making some pretty broad strokes there.

1. N64, Genesis, and SNES games fit in UGCs naitively - they were designed for those systems
   
2. Depending on the system, manuals easily fit - the only ones that don't are too long for the case (Atari being the best example) - depth has never been an issue. What this also means is that his cases have to, in some way, be larger than UGCs, even if it's just to house the manual externally - at least in height.
   

Yes, he is selling cases that are designed for different formats, and that's by no means a bad thing. Yes he charges slightly more - by about 25% (based on the fact that a case housing 100 UGCs costs $60USD shipped). Not a huge deal to me, but others may disagree. Not my call to make.

 

Even his cases need to be modified for certain things (game genies, etc.). There's no way to make a case system that will be able to account for every variant without a huge cost overhead.

 

There's a good chance that these are of high quality - of that, I have no doubt whatsoever. In fact, I hope so. I liek the idea. A LOT.

 

Could these replace UGCs, long term? Yes. Will they? Only time will tell. In the meantime, many people will continue to use UGCs.

[Protoplasym]

http://www.seymoroni...s/Nintendo.html

 

Cool, I figured you saw something that I missed

 

 

Are you saying the UGC cases are a smidge cheaper than the prices he has posted in that link? If so, I would say why compare the two considering the UGC cases 'have to be modded' per system use, and they have no room for Manuals. Seymors' Cases are going to be system specific with room for the manuals. The UGC cases are useless imho, because they have to be internally modded for each system (for each and every case), and there's no room for a manual. The UGC doesn't suit the purpose of replacing a case on two fronts: 1. Doesn't support systems natively and has to be modded 2. No room for Manuals.

 

You're making some pretty broad strokes there.

1. N64, Genesis, and SNES games fit in UGCs naitively - they were designed for those systems
    
   
2. Depending on the system, manuals easily fit - the only ones that don't are too long for the case (Atari being the best example) - depth has never been an issue. What this also means is that his cases have to, in some way, be larger than UGCs, even if it's just to house the manual externally - at least in height.
   

Yes, he is selling cases that are designed for different formats, and that's by no means a bad thing. Yes he charges slightly more - by about 25% (based on the fact that a case housing 100 UGCs costs $60USD shipped). Not a huge deal to me, but others may disagree. Not my call to make.

 

Even his cases need to be modified for certain things (game genies, etc.). There's no way to make a case system that will be able to account for every variant without a huge cost overhead.

 

There's a good chance that these are of high quality - of that, I have no doubt whatsoever. In fact, I hope so. I liek the idea. A LOT.

 

Could these replace UGCs, long term? Yes. Will they? Only time will tell. In the meantime, many people will continue to use UGCs.

 

1. Really? I thought they had to be modded for each respective system?

 

Que? According to your #s there, that's $1.60/case... his price was $0.75/case from the link you posted. Am I missing something here? That makes the UGC cases 'much' more expensive.

 

I don't own any game genies... can you name another example perhaps?

 

I'm content with myself for 'waiting'... because I knew a better and cheaper solution would most likely come along from an independent entrepanuer at some point. I feel bad for those who have invested a lot of time and money in the UGC method, if they in fact see the newer model as better, and wish to make the 'switch' that is.

 

 

Personally, if I had everything cased up with UGC cases already... I wouldn't mess with anything else and I'd be content... but seeing as how I always wait for things to surface, I'm happy that I waited and saved my money for the latest solution.

 

 

 

*edit*

 

2. They do? From what I've seen, they simply sit on top of the cart... they're not in a 'slot' like an official case would have. Because I'm anal retentive about everything, I wouldn't consider simply placing/stuffing the manual in the case constitutes it "fitting" in the case. I think it will look much sharper and more official with an actual place for the manual to be inserted inside a proper slot on the opening side of the case... but that's just me being a nitpicky fooker

Edited September 7, 2012 by Protoplasym

[GodzillaIsMyCopilot]

1. Really? I thought they had to be modded for each respective system?

Really. Look it up, or just trust me - I get these all the time (obviously).

 

Que? According to your #s there, that's $1.60/case... his price was $0.75/case from the link you posted. Am I missing something here? That makes the UGC cases 'much' more expensive.

$60 = 60.00 divided by 100 = 0.60 = $0.60. That is less than $0.75, and I don't know if his price includes shipping or not.

 

I don't own any game genies... can you name another example perhaps?

I'm not going to paste every example, as there are a few. It's not like he's neglecting a huge part of the market with the mods that would be necessary - I was just pointing out that even his cases would need modding in some instances.

 

I think it will look much sharper and more official with an actual place for the manual to be inserted inside a proper slot on the opening side of the case... but that's just me being a nitpicky fooker

Yes, you are being a bit nitpicky, as is your right. In UGCs, NES manuals, for example, fit very neatly under the cartridge. As you say, this is a matter of preference.

 

I'm going to say this point blank, because it hasn't seemed to sink in: I'm not saying that one is better than the other - I am simply pointing out what differences I see, and the market challenges he will face. If the price point can come down a bit, I think there's an extremely high chance for competition, particularly considering his cases use UGC-sized artwork. The manual slot alone won't sell the cases over UGCs - only build quality and a competitve price point will do that. If he keeps up what he's doing, hopefully people will eventually notice.

 

Ultimately, you've made it clear you're buying his cases, and I've made it clear that I'm sticking with UGCs until something proven to be better as a long term solution presents itself.

 

With that, I am retiring my participation in this thread, because A) it's been hijacked, and B) I run the distinct danger of talking in circles -I've made my point.

 

EDIT: for grammar purposes only.

Edited September 7, 2012 by GodzillaIsMyCopilot

[Protoplasym]

1. Really? I thought they had to be modded for each respective system?

Really. Look it up, or just trust me - I get these all the time (obviously).

 

Que? According to your #s there, that's $1.60/case... his price was $0.75/case from the link you posted. Am I missing something here? That makes the UGC cases 'much' more expensive.

$60 = 60.00 divided by 100 = 0.60 = $0.60. That is less than $0.75, and I don't know if his price includes shipping or not.

 

I don't own any game genies... can you name another example perhaps?

I'm not going to paste every example, as there are a few. It's not like he's neglecting a huge part of the market with the mods that would be necessary - I was just pointing out that even his cases would need modding in some instances.

 

I think it will look much sharper and more official with an actual place for the manual to be inserted inside a proper slot on the opening side of the case... but that's just me being a nitpicky fooker

Yes, you are being a bit nitpicky, as is your right. In UGCs, NES manuals, for example, fit very neatly under the cartridge. As you say, this is a matter of preference.

 

I'm going to say this point blank, because it hasn't seemed to sink in: I'm not saying that one is better than the other - I am simply pointing out what differences I see, and the market challenges he will face. If the price point can come down a bit, I think there's an extremely high chance for competition, particularly considering his cases use UGC-sized artwork. The manual slot alone won't sell the cases over UGCs - only build quality and a competitve price point will do that. If he keeps up what he's doing, hopefully people will eventually notice.

 

Ultimately, you've made it clear you're buying his cases, and I've made it clear that I'm sticking with UGCs until something proven to be better as a long term solution presents itself.

 

With that, I am retiring my participation in this thread, because A) it's been hijacked, and B) I run the distinct danger of talking in circles -I've made my point.

 

EDIT: for grammar purposes only.

 

*edit* Christ, my dyslexia is reversing everything today... pardon my idiocy with regard to not being able to do simple math.... how embarrasing.

 

 

Oh, ok... I hear you on that.

 

Definitely, I need an actual slot for my maual... I want it to be as offical as possible.

 

 

I don't think we hijacked anything, the thread is about custom game cases... and we're discussing just that.

I enjoyed the discussion! have a good one

Edited September 7, 2012 by Protoplasym

[SeymorOnion]

Hey, guys.

 

I just got an e-mail about my Atari 2600/7600 Cases, and a link to this thread.

I was asked, "Will your future Atari 2600/7800 game cases be able to contain ColecoVision cartridges and manuals as well?"

 

The Short Answer:

I don't know, but It would be great if they would!

 

The long Answer:

The good news is that they're still in development, so alterations to the design are possible.

I don't have any ColecoVision Carts or Manuals on hand, nor do I know the dimensions of them.

If you guys can provide dimension info, and suggest some titles I could buy, so I can test them with the Case during the Prototyping Process, that'd be great.

If the manuals wind up being bigger than standard 2600/7800 Manuals, that's ok, because I could design a special case just for them, if need be.

 

The pricing on my website for the yet-to-be-released Game Cases are ballpark figures; they're not set in stone.

I understand that I am going to be competing directly with UGCs, as well as Nintendo-Brand DS Cases, and am trying to either price-match them, or at least get as close as I can to their prices.

 

Shipping is not included in the ballpark pricing. I'm not sure that I could do that and be fair; as I ship worldwide, and there's a big price diffrence for shipping stuff overseas.

However, I am taking that into account with my Shipping Boxes, because some countries have weird rules and restrictions on overall package size, so everyone can get the best bang for the buck.

I'm also working on adding FedEx as a third shipping option, for those of you who don't like the USPS or UPS.

The Overseas Shipping Option that offers the best bang for the buck is usually USPS, because as ya'll know, they don't charge any Brokerage Fees (unlike FedEx, DHL or UPS).

 

The majority of my Game Cases will be compatible with The Cover Inserts posted at The Cover Project.

Those that aren't will hopefully be supported by new inserts, made by the talented artists at TCP.

I will bribe some of them with Free Cases, if I have to.

 

As for the Quality of my Game Cases, I think it would be best for other people to give their own hands-on impressions of them (once they become available).

I will say that they are all going to be American Made, most likely in Texas.

I'm not opposed to getting them made in another state if I have to, but it would make it a lot easier for me,

if I can have them all made at one of several local places, that I have my eye on,

because then I could easily have a face-to-face w/them, if they screw up.

[GodzillaIsMyCopilot]

The Short Answer:

 

Unless I'm mistaken, any Coleco-manufactured Atari game is a goo facsimile for a CV cart.

 

As for the rest, I am definitely rooting for you, as a fellow case vendor.

[Pixelboy]

I don't have any ColecoVision Carts or Manuals on hand, nor do I know the dimensions of them.

If you guys can provide dimension info, and suggest some titles I could buy, so I can test them with the Case during the Prototyping Process, that'd be great.

 

The dimensions of "standard" Coleco carts is: 3.25 inches wide, 3.8125 inches high, and 0.75 inch thick. Of course, third-party publishers had their own cart formats. That's the beauty of the design which I posted in post #4 above: It can accomodate most any fancy physical cartridge formats.

 

I have some loose CV carts here which I could donate. I have no manuals to donate though.

 

 

If the manuals wind up being bigger than standard 2600/7800 Manuals, that's ok, because I could design a special case just for them, if need be.

 

Standard Coleco manuals are 6.3125 x 4.093 inches, but you see all kinds of funky manual formats, especially from third-parties.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Pixelboy

[raskar42]

i need something for my coco carts

[SeymorOnion]

Here is how I'd probably do it:

I haven't factored in the exact dimensions of the carts and manuals yet; it needs some tweaking.

I also need to make sure that the Cart Locking Tabs will not come into contact with any of the Cart's Labels.

 

Thanks for the offer of loaning me some carts for the prototyping phase.

I'll be sure to let ya know when would be a good time to send em.

I wanna wait until I'm working with the Prototypers before ya send them, so they won't have to spend a lot of time in my possession.

 

The 5200 Carts will work with my Jaguar Cart Cases, so I didn't include that one in the above example.

Edited September 8, 2012 by SeymorOnion

[Pixelboy]

Here is how I'd probably do it:

I haven't factored in the exact dimensions of the carts and manuals yet; it needs some tweaking.

 

Hmmm... Interesting. I'm not sure all Intellivision carts would fit in your model though. The Inty carts made by Coleco (Donkey Kong, Venture, etc.) are slightly longer, if I remember correctly. It's something you'd need to look into before finalizing the design.

 

Thanks for the offer of loaning me some carts for the prototyping phase.

I'll be sure to let ya know when would be a good time to send em.

I wanna wait until I'm working with the Prototypers before ya send them, so they won't have to spend a lot of time in my possession.

 

Bah, you could keep them. The carts I will be donating are common (Lady Bug and Turbo).

[SeymorOnion]

Here is how I'd probably do it:

I haven't factored in the exact dimensions of the carts and manuals yet; it needs some tweaking.

 

Hmmm... Interesting. I'm not sure all Intellivision carts would fit in your model though. The Inty carts made by Coleco (Donkey Kong, Venture, etc.) are slightly longer, if I remember correctly. It's something you'd need to look into before finalizing the design.

 

Thanks for the offer of loaning me some carts for the prototyping phase.

I'll be sure to let ya know when would be a good time to send em.

I wanna wait until I'm working with the Prototypers before ya send them, so they won't have to spend a lot of time in my possession.

 

Bah, you could keep them. The carts I will be donating are common (Lady Bug and Turbo).

Cool; I appreciate it. You can use the return addy on the shipping label, if you still have it, or I can PM ya my addy.

 

How many different games came on Xonox-type carts? I could make a seprate case for those, or combine it with the Jaguar&5200 Case.

 

That would let me orient the Inty Carts vertically, and move the cart locking tabs to the sides of the carts.

I could then make the Cups at the ends of the 2600/7800 and inty Carts a bit deeper, to allow for a greater variation in Cart Height.

I'll also add some gaps in the cups, so they'll be more flexable, and won't snap off, or scuff up the carts. (This'll require some testing).