Lynx to VGA

[candle]

time will tell, prototypes are being made

[candle]

scanlines enabled:

 

and disabled:

[GadgetUK]

@Candle

 

Let's put it like this: a homebrew sells aboout 100 - 150 copies on the Lynx. I would guess that as many people would be interested in a screen mod too if it's 50$ or so, not 150.

 

the peoople activein this forum are not 1:1 everyone interested in stuff like this, there's always more lurkers interested that never post.

 

 

I doubt it will be quite as cheap as $50. Probably nearer $100.

Edited April 5, 2013 by GadgetUK

[GadgetUK]

scanlines enabled:

 

and disabled:

 

OMG, no running ghost lines like there is on the old LCD =O That game is one of the worst for showing up the ghost lines on the old LCDs.

[kogden]

Wow.... nice Slime World shots! I'd definitely buy it. Either the docking station version or simpler screen replacement. The old-school passive screen can get rough on the eyeballs after a while.

 

Is that screen LED or CCFL backlit?

[candle]

LED

[108 Stars]

 

 

 

I doubt it will be quite as cheap as $50. Probably nearer $100.

 

I just used the numbers from candles examples.

 

people there got used to prices in rage of 50-150$, but here $50 might be too much to ask for

 

I don't mind it being somewhat more than 50$, it was just the lower end candle mentioned. And for that price people will easily buy it since they pay almost as much for homebrews. Naturally the lower the price, the more people will buy, just saying that there should be no issue getting enough interested people to order.

 

@candle

How would those scanlines be handled? Would there be a switch to turn them on and off at will or would people have to decide on scanlines or not before ordering or before doing the mod?

[mckafka99]

the peoople activein this forum are not 1:1 everyone interested in stuff like this, there's always more lurkers interested that never post.

 

I'm a lurker here while I ty to understand the options but if I understand there may be an easy option/mod to replace/improve the Lynx display, I'm in.

[+swlovinist]

Whatever the final decision on version, I am in. The screen looks soooo much better!

[Der Luchs]

Same here

[Uzumaki]

If you think it's amazing, wait till you play it on a 90" LCD screen!!!

 

Kidding aside, I plan to un-portable-ize one of my Lynx by adding a regular controller port and using regular controller. I'm looking through arduino and SNES. I originally wanted NES controller but Lynx has 2 fire buttons + 2 option buttons + pause button and I'd be 1 button short on a NES controller. SNES added 4 more buttons, and I could make A+B for regular buttons, X+Y for options, and start for pause button. Other buttons would be unused.

[Der Luchs]

But the SNES Controller fits better in the hand

[108 Stars]

I am not a big fan of SNES controllers. I used them a lot in the day, but they are not very ergonomic, Sega solved that better since they were the first ones who tried to give the controllers a shape that is not flat. The SNES pad also suffers from having L- and R- buttons that wear our easily, I couldn't count how many of the shoulder buttons suffered from extensive Street-Fighter-II-sessions in my youth.

I personally think the shape of the 3-button Genesis pads is the best from the era; there are 3rd party pads in that shape that have 6 buttons, those are my 16-bit non plus ultra.

Or you could use a PlayStation controller; it uses basically the SNES layout, but with better built quality and improved ergonomic design thanks to the grip horns.

 

But that aside, I have played Lynx on TV via my Xbox; and imo, the games really take a hit from the big screen. 160x102 is just ultra-low res, it's even less than the original GameBoy had. As pretty as Lynx games look on a small screen, they look like crap on the big screen. In my case it was even more annoying because beside the huge pixels I had huge black bars on the top and bottom, thanks to my TV being 4:3 and the Lynx being widescreen. At least that should be better with modern TVs though.

 

Anyway, just saying: Think it through before you consolize a Lynx in a way that you can't use it as handheld anymore if that was your idea. The result might disappoint you. Candle's plans are sound of course, with the TV-out only being optional. I'd like that feature myself because it was kind of strange last year at e-Jagfest, talking about my Lynx games in front of a small crowd, and not being able to show them at the same time due to the small LCD screen. The TV-out would help a lot for such presentations.

 

I've got a couple of candidate Lynx 2's ready here and pretty much every game released.

I am also still in. Love to give this a try. Got around 5 candidate Lynx ready for open heart surgery.

 

Where do you guys get so many Lynxes? Seriously, I hope you someone will share one for very cheap whenthe time comes, I only have a single Lynx 1 unit, and they are usually 50 Euros up a piece, so they are not exactly ultra cheap these days.

Edited April 8, 2013 by 108 Stars

[Atariboy]

The SNES pad also suffers from having L- and R- buttons that wear our easily, I couldn't count how many of the shoulder buttons suffered from extensive Street-Fighter-II-sessions in my youth.

 

Thankfully I never had issues with the shoulder buttons. But I don't remember them being heavily used very often either. Perhaps with fighters like the game you referenced, a genre I ignored, they could wear out easily since the Super Nintendo gamepad only had 4 face buttons which I assume necessitated regularly assigning commands to the two shoulder buttons for most of the fighting games on the system (Which is why 6 buttons were so common for arcade sticks from that era onwards even though the 4 button standard on gamepads has largely continued).

 

What has required replacement on my original Super Nintendo gamepad after twenty years of use was the start/select buttons. Start in particular seemed to not work right after just a couple of years of use (Select was used much more rarely). But the rest is holding up well after all of these years.

 

But that aside, I have played Lynx on TV via my Xbox; and imo, the games really take a hit from the big screen. 160x102 is just ultra-low res, it's even less than the original GameBoy had. As pretty as Lynx games look on a small screen, they look like crap on the big screen. In my case it was even more annoying because beside the huge pixels I had huge black bars on the top and bottom, thanks to my TV being 4:3 and the Lynx being widescreen. At least that should be better with modern TVs though.

 

I'm pretty sure that the aspect ratio of the Lynx is just about halfway between 4:3 and 16:9. So I don't think there will be a prime choice between the two for maximizing screen area.

 

Most handheld games look best on the small screen. Even most classic console games look better on small screens as long as there's adequate resolution available. So at least from my vantage point, what you said won't be an issue for me since I expect it. And the other advantages outweight it in the area of comfort.

 

And on an appropriately size tv screen and sitting at a normal viewing distance, it should help matters out a bit from a picture quality standpoint. The distance I sit from my tv's causes the picture to not be much different in size to my eyes than my handhelds are since the screen on those is obviously much closer to everyone's eyes than the screen of a much larger television will be when you're sitting back on a couch or recliner in your living room or gaming room.

 

I could make A+B for regular buttons, X+Y for options, and start for pause button. Other buttons would be unused.

 

I hope that's not what this will modification will map them to. Y & B would be more comfortable I think for the two action buttons. They're the buttons developers usually mapped their two most used functions to on the Super Nintendo. Nintendo even provided the option on the Super Game Boy rather than just leaving the gamer stuck using A & B on the SuperNes gamepad so the button lettering matched with the Game Boy's two buttons.

 

And most developers continue to do similarly with all the 4 face button controllers spawned from the Super Nintendo design since then. Unless it's something like a racing game or FPS where the triggers on modern gamepads will handle the primary functions, the most two common buttons to use are the Y & B positions if it were a 4 button Nintendo gamepad (Or the Sony and Microsoft equivalents with their differently desiginated buttons).

Edited April 8, 2013 by Atariboy

[Uzumaki]

I am not a big fan of SNES controllers. I used them a lot in the day, but they are not very ergonomic, Sega solved that better since they were the first ones who tried to give the controllers a shape that is not flat. The SNES pad also suffers from having L- and R- buttons that wear our easily, I couldn't count how many of the shoulder buttons suffered from extensive Street-Fighter-II-sessions in my youth.

I personally think the shape of the 3-button Genesis pads is the best from the era; there are 3rd party pads in that shape that have 6 buttons, those are my 16-bit non plus ultra.

Or you could use a PlayStation controller; it uses basically the SNES layout, but with better built quality and improved ergonomic design thanks to the grip horns.

 

PSX/PS2 controllers uses 3.3v while Lynx is all 5v, I'd need to add level shifter to deal with difference in voltage and that's even more work on top of arduino-zing controller port to Lynx controller + TV out mod. Most other controllers are 5v native and won't need anything extra to work.

 

PSX (original digital version) was my first choice but I went to SNES when I saw what PSX required. Some 3rd party controller may work fine over-colted to 5v but official Sony may not last long. I'll look into Sega Genesis controller (will have to be 6 buttons version as Lynx has 5 total: A+B, 2 options and pause).

 

But that aside, I have played Lynx on TV via my Xbox; and imo, the games really take a hit from the big screen. 160x102 is just ultra-low res, it's even less than the original GameBoy had. As pretty as Lynx games look on a small screen, they look like crap on the big screen. In my case it was even more annoying because beside the huge pixels I had huge black bars on the top and bottom, thanks to my TV being 4:3 and the Lynx being widescreen. At least that should be better with modern TVs though.

 

Did the XBox offer scanline generator to simulate old Lynx screen? The TV out mod board supposed to have option for scanlines which should look more natural and look OK on larger TVs. My main TV is 32" and I usually sit around 8-10 feet away so it shouldn't be real blocky.

 

Anyway, just saying: Think it through before you consolize a Lynx in a way that you can't use it as handheld anymore if that was your idea. The result might disappoint you. Candle's plans are sound of course, with the TV-out only being optional. I'd like that feature myself because it was kind of strange last year at e-Jagfest, talking about my Lynx games in front of a small crowd, and not being able to show them at the same time due to the small LCD screen. The TV-out would help a lot for such presentations.

 

I have a few Lynx so one becoming consolized won't be an issue. I'd have the LCD mod in another Lynx without using controller hack for on the road gaming with option to hook it up to a TV. Still portable with wow-omfg-great LCD display and standard video out ports (maybe Genesis style multi-out for composite+RGB?)

 

I never had issues with the shoulder buttons. But I don't remember them being heavily used very often either. Perhaps with fighters, a genre I ignored, they could wear out easily since the Super Nintendo gamepad only had 4 face buttons which I assume necessitated assigning commands to the two shoulder buttons.

 

What has required replacement on my original Super Nintendo gamepad after twenty years of use was the start/select buttons. Start in particular seemed to not work right after just a couple of years of use. But the rest is holding up well after all of these years.

 

 

 

I hope that's not what this will modification will map them to. Y & B would be more comfortable I think for the two action buttons. They're the buttons developers usually mapped their two most used functions to on the Super Nintendo. Nintendo even provided the option on the Super Game Boy rather than just leaving the gamer stuck using A & B on the SuperNes gamepad so the button lettering matched with the Game Boy's two buttons.

 

And most developers continue to do similarly with all the 4 face button controllers spawned from the Super Nintendo design since then (Unless it's something like a racing game or FPS where the triggers on modern gamepads will handle the primary functions).

 

It wouldn't be hard to change what button does what in arduino code before compiling and loading to the chip. I choose A+B because it's what I usually use as both A+B is roughly the same distance for my thumb while Y+B means my thumb would have to travel further to reach Y button. My thumb makes enough popping noise as it is so I'll keep A+B but I'll leave the info on how to make it Y+B for Lynx A+B if anyone wants to follow me.

 

I've compiled a test, used NES plug (I had spare plug from a dead NES) and tested it with a NES controller to LED display, it works. Did you know, Arkanoid controller can be tested with arduino as well? One change in wiring, and you could use it to watch LED? If it stuttered, dirty put syndrome. If it's out of sequence at either end of paddle range, it needs adjustment.

 

I need to find SNES plug, going to visit an used game shop for a cheap multi-tap to steal connectors.

 

EDIT: minor corrections

Edited April 8, 2013 by Uzumaki

[Atariboy]

Aren't the buttons the same exact distance apart for any neighboring pairs of buttons?

 

I suppose everyones hands are different, but with my thumb, I don't have to move it all to fully operate Y & B simultaneously where as it's uncomfortable to do similarly with A & B. So I hope if it's not something adjustable with Candle's project that he perhaps takes a small sample size here to gauge what people like.

 

Or does what suits his own hands best. I think everyone here will be satisified with whatever design he creates that he finds fulfills his own goals for his project.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Atariboy

[Uzumaki]

Candle's not the one doing controller mod. I am, it is separate from his work.

 

I think the issue of A, B, X, and Y button may also depend on how the controller is labeled, in addition to people holding it differently. Mine (USA, both original Nintendo and cheap Retro clone controller) has B on bottom, A on right side, Y on left side, and X on top. When I hold my SNES controller, my right thumb usually rests between A and B.

[Atariboy]

That's the typical ABXY button layout that Nintendo has utilized on all of their four button devices (The Super Nintendo, Wii and Wii U gamepads, and on the DS and 3DS).

 

My right thumb when I hold a Super Nintendo controller is naturally at rest in-line with the Y & B buttons. It's uncomfortable to contort it towards the upper right corner so I can simultaneously use A & B.

 

Good luck with your project.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Atariboy

[Atariman]

Not sure if I missed the boat in helping test prototypes, but I'd help however I can. I can afford a $70 programmer and imagine I could use it pretty effectively considering I use a couple Microchip ones every day at work and have one of the Atmel JTAG ones within eyesight as I type this at home. (I have a little time in the evenings to check out Lynx games and can likely sucker my wife into helping, too)

[candle]

i'ts too late to jump on this boad, it's already afloat

i should have something to show in two weeks time

[Guitari]

i should have something to show in two weeks time

 

[jvas]

I'll definitely buy one !!!

[woolfman]

I am definitely in for a copy of the combined "Lynx/TV-out".

 

Would be great to have a version that is as simple to install as possible, so that damaging the unit is (hopefully) unlikely....

[+slx]

I'm very interested in the screen upgrade but less so in the video out/joysticks. Thanks candle!

[Uzumaki]

Maybe there needs to be a poll on the front somewhere for everyone to see? I do know the prototype version with new LCD and video out is under $90 total, the production version may be cheaper. A poll would get an idea how many people are interested and how many of LCD only version or full version is desired.