Dropcheck Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 A long time ago in a galaxy far far away..... Wait a minute, I have to clear the flashback out of my head. Now lets start again. Several months ago flashjazzcat approached me about creating a board that would in effect convert a US NTSC 1200XL to a PAL version. One of the sticking points in previous attempts had been the fact that the 1200XL didn't have a PAL version. It was strictly a NTSC machine and as such did not have the additional circuitry to use a PAL GTIA chip properly. Somewhere in the distant past flashjazzcat had come up with a schematic to overcome that shortcoming. He believes Beetle may have originally designed it, but is not sure. Attempts to contact Beetle and confirm have been unsuccessful. After much going back and forth and engaging Candle, flashjazzcat and tf_hh in troubleshooting, testing and veryifing I believe I have created a board that will allow a PAL GTIA to be installed and work. Now the caveat..... Major mods will need to be done to a stock 1200XL before my little device even comes into play. Although these mods are not hard, they are not for the fainthearted. They are: Mod motherboard for 800XL OS/MMU/Basic per http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/105148-new-twist-on-a-very-good-1200xl-upgrade/page__p__1274137?do=findComment&comment=1274137 Connect pin 14 of XL MMU to +5V per tf_hh Replace Y1 with CO16112 or equivilent frequency divider circuit for persons with VBXE Replace NTSC ANTIC with PAL ANTIC chip Remove NTSC GTIA chip from socket Then my little board: Plug PAL GTIA into 1200XL PAL GTIA adapter board Plug adapter board into GTIA socket on motherboard A tested prototype is done and I am ready to offer a limited run of the board. Initially I am limiting it to a total of 20 boards to keep the project manageble. I need to sell and have paid orders for at least 10 completed boards to make the run. The rest can be populated or not as you wish. I will source Y1 for you and include 1 per completed board you order if you wish. Of course once this run is done if there is enough demand I will go again. As I did with my Ultimate 1mb MMU adapter board I will post a webpage with orders and status. The order window will stay open for two weeks. PM me for payment info and shipping costs to your location. Time line once order window closes: Order Board and parts and recieve it: about 3 weeks Board assembly: about 2 weeks Shipping: ? Total Time: about 4-5 weeks + shipping time I will offer the board in two versions. Populated (with Y1 crsytal if requested) $25.00 Bareboard (will come with part #s) $10.00 Shipping costs will depend on method and location. Below is the picture of the prototype. The production board will look very much the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Hello Dropcheck Does this include cutting any traces? If not, put me down for one. Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle_jedi Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Put me down for two populated with shipping to Seattle, WA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I don't suppose I'm particularly interested in making a 1200XL PAL (I don't have a 1200XL yet, but I want one), but I just want to complement you on your skill and ingenuity. I'm sure I couldn't understand all that it actually entails, but from a layman's perspective, it's still impressive! Maybe if this goes well, in the future you could come up with something to go the other way, on the Atari 800 (NTSC-to-PAL)? Down the road when Incognito is to be installed, I'd die for a PAL Atari 800. It's kind of a pipe dream of mine to run all the awesome Euro-demos on a completely stock-looking beige 800. It seems that "real" PAL 800 is quite rare, but the old beige NTSC beasts are everywhere. I sure hope you stick around and keep making Atari stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle_jedi Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Maybe if this goes well, in the future you could come up with something to go the other way, on the Atari 800 (NTSC-to-PAL)? Wouldn't you just need to swap the personality card for the PAL version and the OS card for the CXL801P? Best Electronics has the CA06113 board for $15. With Incognito I think you don't need the OS card right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spookt Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 PM sent for 1 populated board. Apologies but I seem to have managed to send 2 copies of the same PM. Please ignore one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 To clarify, Beetle didn't design the original schematic. I believe Wolfram Fischer modded Beetle's machine (memory's a bit flaky on that, though: it's been a while). Sorry for not passing that information on, Lenore. This is a really excellent little board, and I can say that if the 1200XL is already SuperVideo modded, the PAL circuitry improves the video output yet further. The upgrade also lives happily alongside VBXE, should you wish to have PAL Y/C output alongside the RGB output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I would like to order 3 of them. with all the parts installed. Thanks! Marius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 why only go for 20 boards? I think a lot of people are truly interested in this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted September 24, 2012 Author Share Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) why only go for 20 boards? I think a lot of people are truly interested in this... I wanted to keep the board numbers small and manageable. I think we've all had enough drama with some recent pre order offers. I'm fully open to doing a follow on run once this one is done and shipped. Remember PM me for pymt and shipping costs. Edited September 24, 2012 by Dropcheck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted September 24, 2012 Author Share Posted September 24, 2012 Hello Dropcheck Does this include cutting any traces? If not, put me down for one. Sincerely Mathy Other than the caveat mentioned, it is plug and play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Hello Lenore I read it, but at the moment, my brain doesn't want to cooperate. Desoldering is no problem, but cutting traces isn't my thing. So there's no cutting traces? Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted September 24, 2012 Author Share Posted September 24, 2012 Hello Lenore I read it, but at the moment, my brain doesn't want to cooperate. Desoldering is no problem, but cutting traces isn't my thing. So there's no cutting traces? Sincerely Mathy As far as I know no cutting traces. Some soldering and desoldering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) Hello Lenore Then please put me down for one, fully populated. BTW this might be a stupid question, but why do we need to convert to "800XL"? Sincerely Mathy Edited September 24, 2012 by Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted September 24, 2012 Author Share Posted September 24, 2012 Hello Lenore Then please put me down for one, fully populated. BTW this might be a stupid question, but why do we need to convert to "800XL"? Sincerely Mathy I'll let tf_hh explain in the same words he gave me. Last... I´m not really sure, because I only test it once, but I think to remember right, that the original 1200 operating system doesn´t detect PAL hardware and program always NTSC related values to GTIA and POKEY. This causes some problems. Some games will have failured Player/Missile collision detection and SIO transfer on higher speeds with the german highspeed products (Turbo 1050 by Engl or Speedy 1050 by Compy-Shop) will not work on higher speeds than POKEY divisor 10 (the Happy Warp Speed). This will cause in the fact, that serial transmission speed relates to the system´s ground clock and as you all know there are differences in NTSC and PAL computers. So it´s a must to change to the 800 XL operating system. I always do a second modification to the 1200 and so one of the old two operating system sockets will be the "new" operating system slot for holding a 27128 eprom, the other was for a 8K basic-ROM to prevent the need of using a cartridge. Also you´ve to change the MMU to an XL-type one. Just connect pin 18 of the MMU to Pin 11 of the PIA to get full 800 XL compatibility with onboard BASIC enable/disable. Ah, check pin 14 on the MMU. It must be connected to +5 volts, because this is the MPD signal from PBI - but the 1200 XL hasn´t any. If left floating this input, spurious errors in BASIC and other languages they use the MathPack ($D800-$DFFF) will appear. tf_hh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) Hello Lenore Thanks for the/tf_hh's explanation. Since the 1200XL doesn't have a PBI bus (unless you put one in yourself), would it be possible to use the XEGS OS? Heck, maybe I could just use the latest version of the XE (not XEGS) OS. Sorry, just thinking out load via my keyboard. Sincerely Mathy PS the XEGS MMU differs from the XL/XE MMU. Edited September 24, 2012 by Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted September 24, 2012 Author Share Posted September 24, 2012 Hello Lenore Thanks for the/tf_hh's explanation. Since the 1200XL doesn't have a PBI bus (unless you put one in yourself), would it be possible to use the XEGS OS? Heck, maybe I could just use the latest version of the XE (not XEGS) OS. Sorry, just thinking out load via my keyboard. Sincerely Mathy PS the XEGS MMU differs from the XL/XE MMU. Maybe tf_hh can weigh in here, but I think it could work. I think any OS after and including the XL has coding for PAL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Hello Lenore They were. I've got a 600XL, two 800XL's, one 65XE (European version), one 800XE (same as the 65XE, but with a different name. Atari Marketing....), one 130XE and two XEGS's, all PAL machines. The only non-PAL machine is the 1200XL. Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Guitarman Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Count me in for one as I have a couple of boxes full of PAL software I'd love to try out!! PMing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Hello Lenore Then please put me down for one, fully populated. Make that "fully populated, including Y1". Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+tf_hh Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Hi, Thanks for the/tf_hh's explanation. Since the 1200XL doesn't have a PBI bus (unless you put one in yourself), would it be possible to use the XEGS OS? Heck, maybe I could just use the latest version of the XE (not XEGS) OS. This is of course also possible. Jurgen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted September 25, 2012 Author Share Posted September 25, 2012 Hi, This is how the order list currently stands. I'll update as needed. The url will remain the same for this run. Remember I need at least 10 completed boards ordered and paid for to start the run. If we miss that mark any monies recieved will be refunded. http://www.dropchecks.com/1200XLpymt.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 XEGS OS still has all the PBI stuff, no point in using it really, it wouldn't give any advantage over the 800XL OS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Hello Rybags The XEGS OS might still have the PBI stuff, but the XEGS MMU doesn't have a pin for MPD. So I guess it's better to use the last version of the XE OS (and the XL/XE MMU). Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Hello Lenore This is how the order list currently stands. I'm not on it. Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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