Composite Video Mod Quality?

[pimpmaul69]

I don't know....I'm pretty sure I see Ghosts Also, what is ghosting?

you forgot to put a smiley the first time. and ghosting is double vision. like the 2 free ghosts show.

 

Lol! Jason is on fire and Pimpmaul is back!

didnt catch it cause he forgot to add a smiley. and im here for now. life has been a beeotch.

[pimpmaul69]

Ok, here are the pictures I promised. I noticed two things when I was taking pictures:

 

1. Bright red appears to be purplish (notice the smoke from the cig in Commando or the boarder in Worm Whomper)

2. Yellow isn't a bright as it should be (it's sort of yellow/brown). You can see this in Burgertime and in Commando.

3. No mater what I do I can't get the colors quite right in Dig Dug. I think this is the Red/Purple issue.

 

I was able to get the colors more or less correct using a different monitor. My 1702 is in better shape than my 1084 apparently. They still don't match the emulator 100%, but they're much much closer (no more red is purple, yellow is brownish thing).

the color you arent producing correctly is pink. adjusting that pot should fix it. maybe not though. in the intv 1 different board versions produced different color palettes.

 

[Tempest]

Ill have to try adjusting that pot (maybe it got bumped when I was putting in the mod). What's a good game to adjust color on?

 

You're saying that the Intelli 1 has slightly different colors than the 2 or 3?

 

Any ghosting in those shots are from my camera.

[Tempest]

Ok I found the pot, but no matter what I do some color is going to be wrongish it appears. I've gotten it pretty darn close though. I think some of the problem is that the monitors I'm using aren't going to be 100% and colors do vary between models.

[Tempest]

I ended up going back to the 1084 as it doesn't show the scanlines as bad and doesn't have the ghosting that that 1702 does (there *is* minor ghosting, but only if you turn the contrast and brightness way way up). I got the colors pretty close, and I'm happy with it.

[yell0w_lantern]

So this is pretty good then?

Is it different from the circuit on Beeslife?

[Tempest]

So this is pretty good then?

Is it different from the circuit on Beeslife?

I think it's great. Then again the Intellivision 1 had great RF out too. I did this mod mainly so I didn't have to keep an old TV around.

 

No sure if it's a different circuit or not.

[+intvsteve]

I think it's great. Then again the Intellivision 1 had great RF out too. I did this mod mainly so I didn't have to keep an old TV around.

 

No sure if it's a different circuit or not.

Wow, I thought most TVs still had a coax input... how quickly things change! I just got a pretty nice TV in 2010!

[yell0w_lantern]

Okay, I built Solarfox's cicuit but have yet to install it. http://www.solarfox.triluminary.net/hwh_intvav_p4.php

I'm nervous I won't solder the shielding back to the ground pins on the cart slot correctly.

I'd also rather leave the RF circuit in although I've seen at least one person recommend against that. Can I leave it if I use shielded cables?

[pimpmaul69]

you have to leave the rf unit in unless you build a shunt mod. does not work at all without the rf unit

[yell0w_lantern]

you have to leave the rf unit in unless you build a shunt mod. does not work at all without the rf unit

I'm not sure what a shunt mod is.

[bikeguychicago]

I'm not sure what a shunt mod is.

I know what shunt-ing is thanks to my son's obsession with Thomas the Tank Engine...

[yell0w_lantern]

No! Intellivision Thread Syndrome is starting! Soon people will start writing random and unrelated things about bacon and Bea Arthur.

[pimpmaul69]

No! Intellivision Thread Syndrome is starting! Soon people will start writing random and unrelated things about bacon and Bea Arthur.

i have I.T.S. turrets. BACON! BEA ARTHUR! WHERE THE HELL IS INTELLIVISION DUDE!

[wileyc]

Use the SolarFox circuit, remove the RF modulator completely, add the shunt circuit that supplies +5VDC to the video amp, and you're good to go. Quality is as good as, if not superior to, that through an RF modulator.

 

SolarFox mod can be found here: http://solarfox.triluminary.net/hwh_intvav_p1.php

 

Shunt circuit can be found down near the end of the thread here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/212715-intellivision-2609-composite-video-and-rf-box-removal/

 

(quick edit to explain why removing RF modulator is a good idea)

 

The modulator doesn't expect anything to be tapping the signal from its input, so it's not really protecting the input against modulation artifacts. Why would it, when it's the only path to output? Add a composite modification in, though, and you'll see ghosting (which is really signal being reflected back into the input) and an interesting pulse around the 3.5MHz mark when looked at through an oscilloscope.

 

The nontechnical explanation: the RF modulator adds crap to the signal. It ain't needed if you feed +5VDC to the composite circuit, so why keep it if it's causing problems?

Edited November 18, 2013 by wileyc

[Bill Loguidice]

If anyone is offering a mod service for the SolarFox/Shunt mod for Intellivision consoles, I'm buying. I don't trust myself with a mod like that.

[pimpmaul69]

Just so people know, not all intellivisions have ghosting. It is a board version problem. I know of at least 2 boards that dont have the problem. One of them cannot be system changer modded. (at least doing it with the design online as it does not have the 2 resistors you have to remove)

[wileyc]

If anyone is offering a mod service for the SolarFox/Shunt mod for Intellivision consoles, I'm buying. I don't trust myself with a mod like that.

 

No disrespect intended, but this is an attitude that I just don't get.

 

The SolarFox circuit is a fantastically easy project to build. One transistor, a couple of resistors, a couple of caps, and the shunt addition is a diode and a variable resistor. Easy to put onto a perf board, easy to troubleshoot with a multimeter, and easy to remove if it goes wrong.

 

Just about the only way to screw it up is to burn down the house while answering the phone while the soldering iron is hot. I'm reminded of the Simpsons bit where Homer is making cornflakes and manages to set the bowl on fire.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that this hobby (retrogaming on original hardware with current display technology) pretty much requires a willingness to learn how the hardware works. It's not like gear made today, which is pretty much impossible to rework without an M3M station. This gear is forgiving of mistakes, easy to work on, and Allah willing you might learn something about how it works beyond "cables go here, push button, then Og plays game until Og gets bored".

 

It's the electronic equivalent of getting an air-cooled VW. You're going to have to either develop the skills to maintain it yourself (dealing with crappy Chinese "OEM" parts, working around gasohol issues, and eventually doing a full case-split engine rebuild when the Brazilian cam followers pit out) or paying through the nose for one of the ever-fewer people with the know-how to do it for you.

 

Just my two yen. (And if anyone knows an ACVW parts dealer that will ship Type-III parts to Japan for less than the cost of the part itself, please let me know )

[wileyc]

Just so people know, not all intellivisions have ghosting. It is a board version problem. I know of at least 2 boards that dont have the problem. One of them cannot be system changer modded. (at least doing it with the design online as it does not have the 2 resistors you have to remove)

 

As far as I can tell it's actually an RF modulator problem, although it could be worked around by filtering on the mainboard. Mine doesn't filter it. I could see it on the 'scope when I was trying the various mods, and it went away when I put in the shunt circuit.

 

Ghosting is caused by slight signal feedback from the modulator onto the composite feed connection. The A/V modification picks that up, amplifies it, and that's what you see on the screen.

 

Remove the modulator and the problem goes away.

[Bill Loguidice]

 

No disrespect intended, but this is an attitude that I just don't get.

 

The SolarFox circuit is a fantastically easy project to build. One transistor, a couple of resistors, a couple of caps, and the shunt addition is a diode and a variable resistor. Easy to put onto a perf board, easy to troubleshoot with a multimeter, and easy to remove if it goes wrong.

 

Just about the only way to screw it up is to burn down the house while answering the phone while the soldering iron is hot. I'm reminded of the Simpsons bit where Homer is making cornflakes and manages to set the bowl on fire.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that this hobby (retrogaming on original hardware with current display technology) pretty much requires a willingness to learn how the hardware works. It's not like gear made today, which is pretty much impossible to rework without an M3M station. This gear is forgiving of mistakes, easy to work on, and Allah willing you might learn something about how it works beyond "cables go here, push button, then Og plays game until Og gets bored".

 

It's the electronic equivalent of getting an air-cooled VW. You're going to have to either develop the skills to maintain it yourself (dealing with crappy Chinese "OEM" parts, working around gasohol issues, and eventually doing a full case-split engine rebuild when the Brazilian cam followers pit out) or paying through the nose for one of the ever-fewer people with the know-how to do it for you.

 

Just my two yen. (And if anyone knows an ACVW parts dealer that will ship Type-III parts to Japan for less than the cost of the part itself, please let me know )

 

I haven't gotten around to teaching myself basic electronic skills, so the "attitude" is perfectly understandable. I don't know if I ever will get around to it, so the offer stands. The will is there, just not the time.

[wileyc]

 

I haven't gotten around to teaching myself basic electronic skills, so the "attitude" is perfectly understandable. I don't know if I ever will get around to it, so the offer stands. The will is there, just not the time.

 

Well, if that's how it is, I'll do the modification for you. The cost will be freight to and from Tokyo, plus parts (which will be roughly double that of your local Radio Shack -- can provide BOM ahead of time if needed), plus about USD$10.00 for the IPA I'll be drinking while performing the modification, plus a guarantee that it works on my crappy 29" Orion.

 

Really, you'd be better off doing it yourself. It's not hard, and "will" plus thirty minutes plus a trip to Radio Shack is all it takes.

[Bill Loguidice]

I appreciate the offer, but I'm probably better off getting the service from someone in the US to save a little on shipping costs. A properly pre-modded console would be an option too, though I've rarely seen any for sale.

[Greg2600]

I too would be interested in a US-based mod to composite, as like Bill, I am a disaster with electronics modding.

[pimpmaul69]

I too would be interested in a US-based mod to composite, as like Bill, I am a disaster with electronics modding.

i have been doing them in these here united states for a while now.... here is a pic (again) of a system i modded with a composite video mod, system changer mod and led mod.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2013 by pimpmaul69

[pimpmaul69]

 

As far as I can tell it's actually an RF modulator problem, although it could be worked around by filtering on the mainboard. Mine doesn't filter it. I could see it on the 'scope when I was trying the various mods, and it went away when I put in the shunt circuit.

 

Ghosting is caused by slight signal feedback from the modulator onto the composite feed connection. The A/V modification picks that up, amplifies it, and that's what you see on the screen.

 

Remove the modulator and the problem goes away.

i believe it to be a problem with the board and how it handles the rf unit. and yes removing the rf fixes it. i tried 3 new rf units on one system, all of them had ghosting. put one of them in another system and it had no ghosting. it could be just me but i have had ghosting on only one board version

Edited November 19, 2013 by pimpmaul69