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What would you expect from a new ColecoVision console?

  

80 members have voted

  1. 1. What would you expect from a new ColecoVision console?

    • I would like it to be just the same as the original ColecoVision, albeit with better A/V outputs
      18
    • I would like it to include some minor improvements over the original, closer to NES/SMS capabilities
      16
    • I would like it to be a major improvement, closer to 16-bits capabilities
      17
    • Same as the original ColecoVision but with the SGM functionality added to it
      29
  2. 2. How much would you be willing to pay for a new ColecoVision?

    • 100 bucks maximum
      15
    • $150 maximum
      31
    • $200 maximum
      19
    • Money isn't a problem
      15
  3. 3. Would you be happy with a new ColecoVision board that works as a replacement board for existing CVs if that helps to reduce the final price?

    • Yes, I would be happy with that
      38
    • No, I prefer a brand new case even if that means paying a bit more
      42
  4. 4. In case you voted for an improved CV, which features would you like to see added? (remember that each feature adds to price, so choose wisely)

    • Improved graphics
      51
    • Improved sound
      46
    • Be capable of improving existing games, like keep high scores, tune color palette, cheats, etc
      40
    • Be able to run games from a SD card
      46
    • Being able to connect a keyboard for computer capabilities
      13
    • Be able to play over the Internet
      20
  5. 5. In case you voted for a new case, how would you like it to look?

    • Like the original
      52
    • Something totally new
      28
  6. 6. In case you voted for an improved ColecoVision, which kind of games would you like to see released for it?

    • Arcade ports from the golden age (1979-1983)
      61
    • Arcade ports from the late 80s (1984-1989)
      58
    • 100% original games
      50
    • Popular games from other post-crash systems, like Castlevania, Zelda, etc
      39
    • Sequels for ColecoVision games
      49
    • Improved versions of classic games from pre-crash systems, like River Raid, Enduro, Yar's Revenge, etc
      42


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You know, if you're considering going that far with graphic capabilities, then perhaps you should consider the possibility of creating a new console that's not really a ColecoVision. It could be backward compatible with all CV carts, and CV fans could buy it for that purpose, but it wouldn't carry the name "ColecoVision" at all. Then you'd be free to include any special feature you want in the hardware, and if anyone says "This isn't a ColecoVision", you could simply respond "Nope, but you can still play all your CV carts on it." From that point on, you can have more modern controllers that use connectors other than DB9 (USB perhaps?), have separate connectors for external keypads (this would be transparent to all legacy CV games) and if anyone wants to develop software that pushes this new hardware to its limits, they'll be free to try.

 

I kind of agree with Pixelboy.

 

Just thinking out loud here but, why not make a MSX2 video game machine that can play CV games. You could call it the Super ColecoVision. Have the port compatible with CV carts and sell and adaptor to use MSX carts. Or how about a computer add-on that turns it into a full MSX2 computer and call it the Super ADAM. I'm just saying. If you are going big, go BIG!

Edited by pboland

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I'm sure many of you have already seen this:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1chipMSX

 

Maybe there's a way to make it compatible with the CV?

 

Yes, I have a couple. It is possible, though we wouldn't be able to use CV cartridges, as the slots are for MSX cartridge only.

Creating a CV that runs MSX is a lot more difficult and expensive than a MSX that runs CV, as the latter is a subset of the former, and we would need a keyboard. as not everything will run with just a joystick. In fact almost everything uses the keyboard for something, even if just for pause.

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Yes, I have a couple. It is possible, though we wouldn't be able to use CV cartridges, as the slots are for MSX cartridge only.

Creating a CV that runs MSX is a lot more difficult and expensive than a MSX that runs CV, as the latter is a subset of the former, and we would need a keyboard. as not everything will run with just a joystick. In fact almost everything uses the keyboard for something, even if just for pause.

 

Man! Wish I have one of those 1chip MSX !

Last time I saw one on ebay, it went for alot of $$$

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Man! Wish I have one of those 1chip MSX !

Last time I saw one on ebay, it went for alot of $$$

 

Honestly, for the money you're better served by a MSX TurboR.

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I would like that it has the F18A for getting a good picture quality. It also sports a lot of enhancements that aren't used at this time.

Edited by retroclouds

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I think an improved CV should have at least some compatibility with another console or computer. Otherwise there'll likely only be a few games that could take advantage of it. Add MSX, SG-1000, computer BASIC, or SMS, and it would open up a larger amount of usefulness.

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Yes, I have a couple. It is possible, though we wouldn't be able to use CV cartridges, as the slots are for MSX cartridge only.

 

Well, I'm not saying use that as is. I only meant to put that up as an example that a MSX on chip is out there. At least in some form and it may be easier to start with that than to start from scratch.

 

Creating a CV that runs MSX is a lot more difficult and expensive than a MSX that runs CV, as the latter is a subset of the former, and we would need a keyboard. as not everything will run with just a joystick. In fact almost everything uses the keyboard for something, even if just for pause.

 

But, if you are using the MSX on a chip to start with to make a CV, CV games don't need a keyboard. Remember, its a CV first then an MSX computer. Making it a full MSX computer would be an "upgrade". On that same point you could put a expansion port on the console (like the SMS has) that would accept the computer "module" that allows MSX carts, keyboard and mouse for "extra" functionality.

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Had a very promising talk with Matthew (creator of the F18A). Also requested quotes for TMS9128s, V9958s and V9990s, so let's see.

 

53% of voters don't want any new feature (beyond perhaps the SGM), 47% want improved graphics and sound. Very inconclusive... I thought we would be more polarized here.

The percentage is a bit higher when I ask about improved features, 60% voted for better graphics. SD cards, better sound and improving existing games also proved popular. Casing doesn't seem conclusive either...

$150 and below seems to be the sweet spot in terms of price, so we need to take that into consideration.

 

Some suggested MSX compatibility and even computer modules. I assume you guys are actually interested on MSX compatibility and not necessarily on computer functionality, correct? MSX compatibility, especially if we are talking about MSX2 and up here, would be very complicated. 70% of all MSX2 software is floppy based, so we would need a floppy drive. We would need a lot of extra ICs that are hard to find those days, like the real time clock chip, PPI, memory mapper, FM chip, etc.

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I've been giving this further thought and absorbing all the comments and suggestions. It seems a number of people would like it to be compatible with other systems...yeah, well that would be nice, but then at what point does it quit being a ColecoVision and it becomes something else? I'm a CV fan and wouldn't buy a hybrid monster.

 

You've got to ask yourself....what would have Coleco done with a CV2? I could see improved graphics and sound for new games, while still being backward compatible with the old games. More memory for bigger and better games. I think anything beyond that and you start losing what ColecoVision is all about.

 

 

 

 

Had a very promising talk with Matthew (creator of the F18A). Also requested quotes for TMS9128s, V9958s and V9990s, so let's see.

 

53% of voters don't want any new feature (beyond perhaps the SGM), 47% want improved graphics and sound. Very inconclusive... I thought we would be more polarized here.

The percentage is a bit higher when I ask about improved features, 60% voted for better graphics. SD cards, better sound and improving existing games also proved popular. Casing doesn't seem conclusive either...

$150 and below seems to be the sweet spot in terms of price, so we need to take that into consideration.

 

Some suggested MSX compatibility and even computer modules. I assume you guys are actually interested on MSX compatibility and not necessarily on computer functionality, correct? MSX compatibility, especially if we are talking about MSX2 and up here, would be very complicated. 70% of all MSX2 software is floppy based, so we would need a floppy drive. We would need a lot of extra ICs that are hard to find those days, like the real time clock chip, PPI, memory mapper, FM chip, etc.

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I believe that MSX/SMS compatibility is not a good idea. I prefer certainly to see ports of selected games from all platforms instead of "embedding"/"limitation to" an MSX/SMS inside a Colecovision.

 

As jblenke says, I prefer enhancement in video/sound/memory along backward compatibility.

 

Video/sound can get enhancements to ease development of future games or ports from other platforms.

 

Just my 2 cents. :)

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If not MSX or ADAM support I'd still favor one system that targets multiple similar platforms and an SD card slot. I wouldn't mind owning the ultimate ADAM though. Couldn't you use a USB connection to minimize the part count?

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My dream console concerning colecovision, would be a colecovision with a 6502 instead of a Z80 and SID sound chip!!! :)

 

More seriously , just the same hardware , smaller , with modern video output.

 

Ideally something with a built'in screen . You know something you can play as handheld but also plug on the TV.

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Some suggested MSX compatibility and even computer modules. I assume you guys are actually interested on MSX compatibility and not necessarily on computer functionality, correct? MSX compatibility, especially if we are talking about MSX2 and up here, would be very complicated. 70% of all MSX2 software is floppy based, so we would need a floppy drive. We would need a lot of extra ICs that are hard to find those days, like the real time clock chip, PPI, memory mapper, FM chip, etc.

 

I wasn't trying to get MSX compatibility per se, I was trying to come up with a quicker and easier way for you to achieve your goal of a new CV. The side benefit is the ability to have MSX compatibility. And no a floppy dive is not necessary if you have SD card support. I'm looking at this as a new and updated CV (CV2). Not just a remake of the CV. At the same time I was also looking at the project as a continuing revenue stream of sorts for you. By building in expansion you open up the door for more possibilities.

 

I'm sure what ever you end up doing will be awesome. Good luck.

 

You've got to ask yourself....what would have Coleco done with a CV2?

 

Yes you do and it most likely would have been very similar to a Sega Master System (spec wise).

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Had a very promising talk with Matthew (creator of the F18A). Also requested quotes for TMS9128s, V9958s and V9990s, so let's see.

 

53% of voters don't want any new feature (beyond perhaps the SGM), 47% want improved graphics and sound. Very inconclusive... I thought we would be more polarized here.

The percentage is a bit higher when I ask about improved features, 60% voted for better graphics. SD cards, better sound and improving existing games also proved popular. Casing doesn't seem conclusive either...

$150 and below seems to be the sweet spot in terms of price, so we need to take that into consideration.

 

I have to say it's really not clear to me what you were expecting when you started this thread. You effectively asked a small bunch of people with very little technical expertise (and also no sense of how expensive it is to create new hardware) what they wanted to have in a new CV. It was perfectly predictable that the discussions were going to go all over the place, with no clear consensus on any particular topic except the end price of the hardware!

 

 

Some suggested MSX compatibility and even computer modules. I assume you guys are actually interested on MSX compatibility and not necessarily on computer functionality, correct? MSX compatibility, especially if we are talking about MSX2 and up here, would be very complicated. 70% of all MSX2 software is floppy based, so we would need a floppy drive. We would need a lot of extra ICs that are hard to find those days, like the real time clock chip, PPI, memory mapper, FM chip, etc.

 

If there's one thing that this thread should demonstrate to you, it's that you should just look at the F18A (assuming you can get a good supply of this chip at a good price) and the bunch of YM2151 chips you already have, and see what you can do with them. Believe me, just getting a new prototype CV board to work properly with just those two components will be enough of a challenge for you. And once you've got it working, you'll be so fed up with tinkering with it that you won't care about people's expectations, you'll just go with what you developed. And once you release the specs of this new prototype online, people will probably be very happy, as long as compatibility with all existing CV carts is preserved.

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Well, actually I was expecting some consensus, but since we didn't get it, I will assume a middle ground solution should make the most people happy.

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I kind of agree with Pixelboy...I'm no technical wiz...just do what you want to do and it will turn out fine...if you ask 100 different people you are going to get 100 different opinions...

 

Well, actually I was expecting some consensus, but since we didn't get it, I will assume a middle ground solution should make the most people happy.

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I'm hoping for a droping PCB and front panel sticker for an existing ColecoVision shell. Updated video out would be great and a smaller power supply would be better.

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Got quotes from all sides. By far the least expensive option is the V9958, even cheaper than the TMS9128. The V9990 and F18A are about the same price, far more expensive. I could make the V9990 as a plug-in expansion of the V9958, I can include provision for that on the PCB. The other problem is that the F18A only outputs VGA, which makes it complicate to get anything else. V9958/9990 outputs RGB, which makes it easy to get at least Composite and Svideo. In fact I know of a RGB encoder that can give us component too.

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Got quotes from all sides. By far the least expensive option is the V9958, even cheaper than the TMS9128. The V9990 and F18A are about the same price, far more expensive. I could make the V9990 as a plug-in expansion of the V9958, I can include provision for that on the PCB.

 

Sounds like a good plan to me. :)

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If there's one thing that this thread should demonstrate to you, it's that you should just look at the F18A (assuming you can get a good supply of this chip at a good price) and the bunch of YM2151 chips you already have, and see what you can do with them. Believe me, just getting a new prototype CV board to work properly with just those two components will be enough of a challenge for you. And once you've got it working, you'll be so fed up with tinkering with it that you won't care about people's expectations, you'll just go with what you developed. And once you release the specs of this new prototype online, people will probably be very happy, as long as compatibility with all existing CV carts is preserved.

 

Yes. This is the right choice here. I was going pie-in-the-sky with my wishes. But, a brand-new Coleco would be AMAZING even with original specs. The closest comparison would be the long gone one chip MSX or a Flashback with cart mod. New old consoles need to be available but for some reason aren't. We're not just talking about preservation: people are STILL making new software for these platforms.

 

As the hardware guys work this out I keep hoping development tools will also gain ground. PixelBoy! Quick! Hack together something from existing C compilers and BCX!

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Ok, I think I am coming with a plan. V9958 for video, YM2151 for sound (in addition to SN76489AN for backward compatibility). A Z80 at 5.35MHz or 7.14MHz (selectable by software). Now, it would be cool if I could come with a scheme to DMA data to the VRAM. That would be especially useful for sprite manipulation. Also gonna need a Interrupt Controller for all the new sources of IRQ in the system. In terms of memory management, 32KB should be good enough so no need to create any new memory mapper.

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