Possible alternative to RetroBrite ...

[SlowCoder]

... using 40 vol hair developer?

 

I decided to give this a shot at the recommendation of another AA member. I have a badly yellowed SNES console. The case is slightly cracked, probably due to brittling. No big deal if the whole experiment goes south.

 

I am planning to submerge the top of the console in clear liquid 40vol developer. I decided not to go with the equivalent cream, because I'd keep having to reapply it periodically, and I thought liquid might minimize the blooming (unequal discoloration). I will keep the cover submerged for 2 hours in the sun, rotating the container every 15 minutes. Temperature outside is about 75f, at about 1:00pm. Mostly sunny, a few moving clouds.

 

Product I'm using:

I bought four 32oz bottles for the experiment. Each bottle cost me $5, a total cost of $20+tax.

 

Here's the console before the experiment starts:

As you can see, the console is quite yellowed, with the top and bottom covers matching in discoloration. Other parts of the covers can be seen, apparently unaffected by the UV over the years.

 

Here's the console submerged in the developer. Though I tried to use an appropriately sized pan, I still had to use all 128oz of the developer to fully submerge the cover.

 

Will post more later ...

[nukeshed]

Watching with interest; my father in law runs a beauty supply chain.

[SlowCoder]

After 30 minutes, the cover has formed bubbles. Not surprising with peroxide. On one hand, I'm concerned the bubbles could contribute to "polka dots". On the other hand, I'm tempted to see what these "polka dots" might look like once the experiment is completed. They are more or less equally distributed across the top.

 

Any thoughts? Wipe away, or allow to stay?

 

[+RevEng]

If these are oxygen bubbles, which they likely are, they represent parts of the case that won't be in contact with the solution.

 

I'd say remove them every hour or two... that's easy enough for others to follow if your experiment is a success.

[SlowCoder]

It's been an hour. Time to see if there's any progress.

 

 

The top (shown on bottom) is a bit lighter than the bottom (shown on top ). There does appear to be progress made. Back into the developer it goes ...

 

Note: You may have noticed that I was not wearing gloves in the last pic. I have pretty hearty hands, but this stuff does seem to find any cuts and scratches, even the ones you didn't know you had! Also, my hand is a bit tingly, not an entirely comfortable feeling, kind of like when blood flow is restored to a previously "asleep" appendage. Don't take my example. I highly recommend that you wear gloves.

[desiv]

I'm not sure how much this is an alternative to retrobrite, as that is basically the same thing.

From what I can tell by googling, that product is about 12% H2O2, and no OxyClean as a catalyst.

The retrobrite page recommends 10%-15%, so that seems like a perfect choice if the 12% googled number if accurate.

 

I'd watch out for what the Retrobrite people describe as a "bloom" if you leave it in too long.

 

Nice looking results so far...

 

desiv

[SlowCoder]

Here are the results after 2 hours soaking in the 40 vol developer ...

 

Viewing the top vs. the bottom, there is a definite improvement. Comparing the top vs. the plastic strip, I can see that I have quite a distance to go before I have achieved my goal. I'd say there was about a 40% improvement.

 

I could continue to soak the top in the developer, but I've run out of sun. So, I'm about to go out looking for a UV lamp for some overnight soaking.

[Retro Rogue]

I'm not sure how much this is an alternative to retrobrite, as that is basically the same thing.

From what I can tell by googling, that product is about 12% H2O2, and no OxyClean as a catalyst.

The retrobrite page recommends 10%-15%, so that seems like a perfect choice if the 12% googled number if accurate.

 

I'd watch out for what the Retrobrite people describe as a "bloom" if you leave it in too long.

 

Nice looking results so far...

 

desiv

 

You are correct, there is no difference. That's one of the ingredients already, I use the Sally's 30 vol. The beauty supply chains around here wouldn't sell the 40 unless I had a beauticians license.

[desiv]

You are correct, there is no difference. That's one of the ingredients already, I use the Sally's 30 vol. The beauty supply chains around here wouldn't sell the 40 unless I had a beauticians license.

If teh interwebs didn't lie to me (they would never do that), then 40 vol is about 12%, 20 vol is about 6%, so 30 vol should be around 9% or so??

I'm guessing that would still be fine, but might take just a bit longer...

 

I haven't tried myself yet, but my Apple IIc (and it's monitor) is SCREAMING for it..

 

desiv

[SlowCoder]

I'm not sure how much this is an alternative to retrobrite, as that is basically the same thing.

From what I can tell by googling, that product is about 12% H2O2, and no OxyClean as a catalyst.

The retrobrite page recommends 10%-15%, so that seems like a perfect choice if the 12% googled number if accurate.

 

I'd watch out for what the Retrobrite people describe as a "bloom" if you leave it in too long.

 

Nice looking results so far...

 

desiv

Not much different, except no mixing and all the other stuff. I try to keep my projects as simple and cost-effective as possible.

[Retro Rogue]

 

Not much different, except no mixing and all the other stuff. I try to keep my projects as simple and cost-effective as possible.

 

All the other stuff is what creates the full process. People tried just peroxide alone already, that was documented in the retrobrite thread as well. It works like a bleach but doesn't do the full process and risks the blooming and brittling.

[SlowCoder]

All the other stuff is what creates the full process. People tried just peroxide alone already, that was documented in the retrobrite thread as well. It works like a bleach but doesn't do the full process and risks the blooming and brittling.

I understand. This isn't straight peroxide though. And it's an experiment to see what happens. If it doesn't work out, consider it my contribution to the furtherment of knowledge in what NOT to do.

 

From what I've read, the blooming and brittling is risked by using any of the Retrobrite recipes.

Other than the use of the OxyClean as a catalyst, all the other things seem to do is make it a gel. I was not interested in using a gel. I wanted to completely submerge my console, the logic being that it would be more evenly covered.

Edited November 4, 2012 by SlowCoder

[Retro Rogue]

From what I've read, the blooming and brittling is risked by using any of the Retrobrite recipes.

 

More so if you're just bleaching. The whole idea with the OxyClean is to force the bonding process.

 

Other than the use of the OxyClean as a catalyst, all the other things seem to do is make it a gel. I was not interested in using a gel. I wanted to completely submerge my console, the logic being that it would be more evenly covered.

 

Which you can do with the console you're testing with. You can't do it with other great/white colored consoles or consoles with print labeling. It will fade those colors and fade the printing/labeling.

 

 

I haven't tried myself yet, but my Apple IIc (and it's monitor) is SCREAMING for it..

 

I've done it on my Apple III, and a white Bally Computer. Worked great. I used a strong UV lightbulb for mine though (UV light from a pet shop used for lizard tanks - bought an "under the counter" fluorescent kit for $10 and swaped thed UV light in to it). I made a tin foil cage for mine as well, basically propping the light up over the unit and then putting tin foil down over the whole thing to create reflection of the UV at all angles.

 

[icemanxp300]

I read about the retobrite awhile ago, just overall it doesn't seem like a financially viable process. Maybe on some rare consoles I'm not sure but overall I find it a better solution to sell and buy a minty one lol.

 

I understand the experiment thing but can you at least save the solution and keep re-using it?

[Retro Rogue]

I read about the retobrite awhile ago, just overall it doesn't seem like a financially viable process. Maybe on some rare consoles I'm not sure but overall I find it a better solution to sell and buy a minty one lol.

 

How? They're all common household products.

 

I understand the experiment thing but can you at least save the solution and keep re-using it?

 

You can with retrobrite as well. Just don't mix in the oxy catalyst. I make up a good amount of both to save, and then mix together smaller amounts of the two together as needed.

[icemanxp300]

Well he just dropped $20 for enough solution lol. Using household products how much is that? What exactly is used and how much do you need. As far as adding the catalyst that pretty much makes the solution done after use right?

 

Idk a grey snes only sells for like $10 more than a yellowed. Doesn't seem worth the time and $$? Unless I'm missing something.

[desiv]

Depends on the console I suppose..

 

A clean Apple IIc is going to cost more than $20 or so....

 

So in my case, it'll probably be worth it..

Also, you spend that money, and you can do more than one case.

 

So, it gets more financially feasible the more you can do.. (I'm sure it loses its effectiveness over time, but I'm not sure how long that is...)

 

So, it all depends..

But he did say he was using the NES as a test, so I think he has greater plans than just that one console..

 

desiv

Edited November 4, 2012 by desiv

[icemanxp300]

So, it all depends..

But he did say he was using the NES as a test, so I think he has greater plans than just that one console..

 

desiv

 

Well that was part of my question, I would assume in his case he could resuse the 40 stuff, but this retrobrite once you add the oxy to it I don't think it can be reused again; can it? If so how long would it last?

 

With the 40 stuff if he can use it for other projects how long before it stops being very effective?

[SlowCoder]

Hopefully this will explain what I'm doing ...

 

Well he just dropped $20 for enough solution lol. Using household products how much is that? What exactly is used and how much do you need. As far as adding the catalyst that pretty much makes the solution done after use right?

 

Idk a grey snes only sells for like $10 more than a yellowed. Doesn't seem worth the time and $$? Unless I'm missing something.

Just to clarify, the SNES I'm using for this is a test. The value of the SNES is inconsequential. Yes, it's costing me a little to do the test, but it's worth it to me to get it right. I have my Coleco ADAM from childhood, and I'm also rebuilding

. I want to get the process right, so I don't destroy these 2 personally valuable items. While I'm not particularly keen on wasting a console, I'm willing to destroy a dirt-common SNES case to accomplish this.

 

In the mean-time, I'm posting my procedure and findings here for people to read and critique, so we all can learn more about the process.

 

 

Well that was part of my question, I would assume in his case he could resuse the 40 stuff, but this retrobrite once you add the oxy to it I don't think it can be reused again; can it? If so how long would it last?

 

With the 40 stuff if he can use it for other projects how long before it stops being very effective?

I'm hoping it will hold out long enough to finish at least this SNES. I'm thinking about going ahead and adding some OxyClean to see if it helps the process. I'm also considering switching to gel to see if I get any better results.

[AtariBrian]

I thought I read one time about using cream peroxide developer or something then putting it in the sunlight for an hour.

[Greg2600]

SlowCoder, did you complete the experiment?