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YOU DECIDE....the integrity of the HSC

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You learn fast! You're writing how we speak.

You only lose in Portuguese learning skill to RT...

 

Seu chamado Google Translate

 

Its called Google Translate

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As far as I am concerned I will be submitting videos of my scores..most will be in .inf format which is made by MESS and you will need MESS to view them. Reason being is .inf files are small and do not require alot of steps.

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I plan on adding 'INF' support to Stella at some point; in fact there's already a preliminary implementation there, but it isn't quite working perfectly yet. Of course, I want to do this so that you guys will be using Stella for the HSC :)

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I plan on adding 'INF' support to Stella at some point; in fact there's already a preliminary implementation there, but it isn't quite working perfectly yet. Of course, I want to do this so that you guys will be using Stella for the HSC :)

 

Awesome! I certainly plan to keep using Stella, which works brilliantly.

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I plan on adding 'INF' support to Stella at some point; in fact there's already a preliminary implementation there, but it isn't quite working perfectly yet. Of course, I want to do this so that you guys will be using Stella for the HSC :)

Funny but this is the first time I have noticed the Stella Maintainer is from Newfoundland. Cool. One more thing in our hands; soon we'll own the world. :)

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Funny but this is the first time I have noticed the Stella Maintainer is from Newfoundland. Cool. One more thing in our hands; soon we'll own the world. :)

I've noticed it before and I thought you knew each other.

Now I'm seeing you have 500,000 people. I thought NF was a smaller island.

 

Not sure if you'll own the world but you already have beautifull places there.

I'm checking this site: http://www.newfoundlandlabrador.com/AboutThisPlace/Geography

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Not sure if you'll own the world but you already have beautifull places there.

I'm checking this site: http://www.newfoundl...Place/Geography

You should click the multimedia link at the top there. You'll schedule a vacation here by the time you're done. :)

 

Back on topic, does Stella play 7800 games? I always thought it was just for 2600 ones. Also, does it support the 360 computer controller like Prosystem does, because that's make or break for me.

Edited by Atarifever
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Back on topic, does Stella play 7800 games? I always thought it was just for 2600 ones. Also, does it support the 360 computer controller like Prosystem does, because that's make or break for me.

 

Sorry, I wasn't clear on that. Stella is 2600 only; I meant that it can be used for the HSC for 2600 games.

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You should click the multimedia link at the top there. You'll schedule a vacation here by the time you're done. :)

 

Back on topic, does Stella play 7800 games? I always thought it was just for 2600 ones. Also, does it support the 360 computer controller like Prosystem does, because that's make or break for me.

 

Atarifever, I know EMU7800 can also be used to play Atari 2600 games. See the EMU7800 control panel (the color format is NTSC on both machines).

 

post-24681-0-95618500-1359586775_thumb.png

Edited by oyamafamily

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Back on topic, does Stella play 7800 games? I always thought it was just for 2600 ones. Also, does it support the 360 computer controller like Prosystem does, because that's make or break for me.

 

Stella picks up whatever controller is listed in Game Controllers...assuming you are using Windows XP..Start/Control Panel/Game Controllers

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Funny but this is the first time I have noticed the Stella Maintainer is from Newfoundland. Cool. One more thing in our hands; soon we'll own the world. :)

 

Heh, now that you bring it up this is the first time I've noticed anyone here was from the island as well. Granted I left the for the mainland years ago. ;)

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Interesting topic. What if somehow emulators had a feature that posted the settings used, was hack proof, and could be verified with other people's emulators? For an example, the emulator posts the screen shot and within the image it has encrypted information that shows all settings like if save states were used. People could copy the screen shot, have their emulators scan the image, and then the emulators would tell them what settings were used. Something like that would make it unnecessary to record videos. It would be as simple as posting a screen shot that has the evidence within it that cheating didn't take place. Is that possible?

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Interesting topic. What if somehow emulators had a feature that posted the settings used, was hack proof, and could be verified with other people's emulators? For an example, the emulator posts the screen shot and within the image it has encrypted information that shows all settings like if save states were used. People could copy the screen shot, have their emulators scan the image, and then the emulators would tell them what settings were used. Something like that would make it unnecessary to record videos. It would be as simple as posting a screen shot that has the evidence within it that cheating didn't take place. Is that possible?

 

is it possible.. yes... the probability of it happening.. unlikley

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is it possible.. yes... the probability of it happening.. unlikley

 

The main purpose of an emulator is to emulate the functions of the original hardware. Save states and so forth are extras. It makes the emulator more like an emulation of a modified console that doesn't exist. I think that is the main issue here. People are competing on original hardware against people with modified consoles with suspicions that the modifications are being used. Doing something like I purpose would even the playing field and more accurately emulate the experience of an in person high score competition. If it is more accurately emulating the experience then it seems somewhat likely that something like this would be added. Accurate emulation is the goal of emulator maintainers. A more authentic screen shot is more accurate emulation. If they add in CRT effects then why would it be unlikely to add more authentic screen shots? It seems needed. Competing against a person using emulation is like competing against an athlete that owns steroids but promises not to use them. If the steroids are taken out of the competition people can stop being suspicious and just have fun. It's a better solution and seems more likely than people with emulators recording their games. Unless the people with original hardware are recording their games too it would be unfair. It would be more fair and simple to just have both post authentic screen shots.

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The main purpose of an emulator is to emulate the functions of the original hardware. Save states and so forth are extras. It makes the emulator more like an emulation of a modified console that doesn't exist. I think that is the main issue here. People are competing on original hardware against people with modified consoles with suspicions that the modifications are being used. Doing something like I purpose would even the playing field and more accurately emulate the experience of an in person high score competition. If it is more accurately emulating the experience then it seems somewhat likely that something like this would be added. Accurate emulation is the goal of emulator maintainers. A more authentic screen shot is more accurate emulation. If they add in CRT effects then why would it be unlikely to add more authentic screen shots? It seems needed. Competing against a person using emulation is like competing against an athlete that owns steroids but promises not to use them. If the steroids are taken out of the competition people can stop being suspicious and just have fun. It's a better solution and seems more likely than people with emulators recording their games. Unless the people with original hardware are recording their games too it would be unfair. It would be more fair and simple to just have both post authentic screen shots.

 

I know what you mean and you bring good ideas. But I see two problems here.

1) An emulator stands between the target hardware and the host machine.

If you make an emulator to run in a full fledge computer, it's hard to throw out all features and possibilities from the machine/OS which runs the program.

For instance, in a Windows machine I can access and change values stored in variables by accessing their memory address with a program... :P And I'm not a hacker at all...

2) I don't see a free software program, as Stella, dropping features to stop users doing what they want to do... Let's say free software programs are a mix of legal and philosophical principles and giving the user the power to do what he wants is the highest principle. If features that don't belong to the target hardware are dropped from stella, I see a fork briging back to stella all its awesome features like debugging, save states etc.

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In as much as I understand the point Schizophretard is making...please let us step back and look at something here.

 

I started this thread because of one person who posted a score of a 7800 game that was impossible to achieve given the parameters set forth by the moderator. This HSC and all the other HSC's are based on the honor system..that system was abused by this individual and he was called on it...the moderator of the 7800 HSC needed to take action but was not able to at the time because of real life situations and we all can empathize with that.

 

Through many conversations and time passing I feel that we all have come to an agreement that concerns that individual alone. I will not go into the details of that decision here because it is not my place to say...that is up to the moderator of the 7800 HSC to make that announcement.

 

It is of my opinion that everyone currently involved with HSC's of any Atari console and/or 8 bit computer is abiding by the honor system and it is that system of which I was attempting to preserve without the need of turning this into Twin Galaxies. (no I am not patting myself on the back here)

 

Yes there are those out there that cheat at games and it is unfortunate to those who play by the rules...but there will always be cheaters....does not matter what game...console...computer...they are out there and no matter what measures are taken to alleviate cheating they will find ways around it. Like someone else said in another post..if someone needs to cheat in this HSC which does not have any prizes or cash rewards for being on top then they have issues outside this HSC. A true statement when one thinks about it.

 

Also cheaters do not care about consequences...because if they did care.. they wouldn't cheat in the first place and there would be no need for threads like this.

 

emulators are great software programs..and they afford those who do not have the finances to bankroll a collection of a any given console and carts. But let me also say this...I was at one time a console owner...many consoles in fact with boxes and boxes of carts..disks..Hu cards. I really understand real hardware users point of view. What happened to my collection..well truthfully it was a decision of mine at the time...family or video games..I chose my family and gave away all of my collections to less fortunate people who had nothing. anyway all my children are grown and out of the house..now I have time for this hobby again..but I chose to do it through emulation.

 

Does that make me a bad person? I hope not. Does that mean I use all the features of the emulator? no I do not.. nor do I care to...I start the emulator...chose a game.. load it..set my controller up (because you have to do it) and play the game..that's it.

 

Yes I know that the features are there and yes I do know how to use them...I chose not to...and I believe that all the other emulator users out there do the same thing.

 

anyway I am getting long winded here...suffice to say I do not feel we need to go to such extremes to validate scores...let common sense do that for us.

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I know what you mean and you bring good ideas. But I see two problems here.

1) An emulator stands between the target hardware and the host machine.

If you make an emulator to run in a full fledge computer, it's hard to throw out all features and possibilities from the machine/OS which runs the program.

For instance, in a Windows machine I can access and change values stored in variables by accessing their memory address with a program... :P And I'm not a hacker at all...

2) I don't see a free software program, as Stella, dropping features to stop users doing what they want to do... Let's say free software programs are a mix of legal and philosophical principles and giving the user the power to do what he wants is the highest principle. If features that don't belong to the target hardware are dropped from stella, I see a fork briging back to stella all its awesome features like debugging, save states etc.

 

I'm not necessarily saying to drop features. I'm just saying to make the emulator post what features were used.

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What was it about the score in question that made it an impossibility?

 

I forget exactly, but I seem to recall it was something like the game mechanics made it literally impossible to progress without cheating. Kind of like the first RC Pro-Am for the NES, the computer cars are set to literally beat you without question after a certain point. Also, he admitted in private discussions to using cheats to "practice" and was incredibly well-versed on how they can be applied to basically every game. So versed it's clear he knew how to use them, and has been using them, probably almost every time.

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Newfies?? I thought they all left their boats and live in Alberta where they have full time jobs..Too bad that the nicest places in the world have nothing $$$$$ to offer.. Here in the flatland plenty of jobs but boring scenery.. I can see 50km in any direction..

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Uh-oh......it looks like Canada and Brazil are taking over AtariAge. Commander, it's time to invade!

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Newfies?? I thought they all left their boats and live in Alberta where they have full time jobs..Too bad that the nicest places in the world have nothing $$$$$ to offer.. Here in the flatland plenty of jobs but boring scenery.. I can see 50km in any direction..

Wait, where's that time machine? You sir are quite far out of date: We are a "have" province. We pay INTO equalization. Somewhere, some guy from Ontario is drawing a cheque soemhow partially funded by someone here. :) Most years since 2007 we've led Atlantic Canada in GDP growth, and are set to be top three in Canada again this year (I believe one year since 2007 we were first or second).

 

 

Many of us have moved to Alberta for work, but that's because people here like money. The biggest money is there, so they go up on turnaround jobs and send the money home. My little town here grew by 1000 people since 2006. The market in any major service centre here is really hot (and hasn't dropped off at any point during the recession in the rest of the world; my house is up 60% since 2008).

 

To a lot of people travelling far away for work likely sounds odd. However, few people ever worked here. They worked on the ocean and were often gone 10 or 11 months of the year. Being gone "3 weeks on 3 weeks off" to Alberta is easy compared to that. Real real easy. So was building New York. People from here go away and come back all the time. For once, not nearly as many have to, as there is real money here. Lots of it. And it looks like 3 more fields off Labrador now. And for those who do work away, it's quick trips full of A LOT of money.

 

EDIT: Just checked. Expected to be first in GDP growth in Canada this year. (4.5%) Seriously, where have you been while it's become the oil hub of the East coast? I thought everyone already knew this in the rest of Canada. Why do you think Danny Williams was being so cocky all the time?

Edited by Atarifever

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Oh sorry. We never had a recession here either and are a have province as well. I live in Sask. and dont think east is part of Canada as Que. is full of whiney(insert swear here) people.

Just when I visit my bro in Calgary his neighbours are all newfies... And you have to give them credit to go for the money. People in Ontario ask for handouts and sit on welfare while we import people from all over the world to work.

Edited by Jinks

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