retroillucid Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 MESSAGE TO PROTOTYPE(S) OWNERS! You do realize the amount of prototypes that have been released throughout time, right? How else do you think the world has them to enjoy? I'm sure you've enjoyed some yourself, including Pacman, Matt Patrol, Joust, Fireman, A.E ..etc...... .How did you get to play it? Because people shared it. Sure you don't have to necessarly release the rom (best way to go IMO) and/or making a cartridge/CIB release I personally will never understand the idea of wanting to not preserve a game for all time by spreading it, but rather only wanting to preserve its value to... itself? I know if I ever come across more prototypes, it will be my number one priority to share it one way or another, because look at all the other prototypes out there that have ever been released. I've enjoyed the heck out of the privilege to even being able to play these games that otherwise would have been lost in time if people didn't share. When Smurf Saves the Day, Sword & Sorcerer, Dragon's Lair were found, they were not kept to the owners because they wanted to preserve the games legendary status. They shared it because otherwise the game is no better off than still being lost in time forever. When you keep it to yourself because you want to be exclusive and special(and sure, preserve the games status and value to... itself, whatever that's like.. supposed to be worth?), you're not really doing a favor for the whole community that's probably pulled more favors for you, the average prototype enthusiast, than you'll possibly ever know to acknowledge. When a prototype is shared it's preserved throughout history, and even though more likely than not only the proto itself and not the person that shared it will be remembered, you've at least saved something that could otherwise have been lost to history. What good is a prototype, a piece of history of the hobby you love, to just sit in your closet and being kept to yourself after you've played it and then forget about it? In that case you've pretty much only paid just for the brief while to enjoy it for yourself, then once you're done it just sits there and possibly the media its own will die before you do. That's it, it's gone forever. I understand in the end we all have our own ideals, but as far as general specific stance goes, I don't understand it at all. Next time a prototype or something that interests you comes alone, you should think about what it would be like if the people that released it instead kept it to themselves for the same reasons you may have. You're not really doing anyone any favors. Of course there's the age old argument that you don't owe anyone anything, but I'm seriously doubting you haven't enjoyed some of the things out there that have been released by people that didn't owe you anything either. But they shared anyway. At least with prototypes, there is a group ( CV Brotherhood) that will release EVERY prototypes they found/bough, and that are being very generous, so I would say you're going to yet again get the privilege soon enough to enjoy other games that could have been lost in history forever. So, be patient! A.E & SOS Cat are going to SOON have a rom release! Cheers Prototype Owners! J-F 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckH Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Bravo! I wholeheartedly agree! Chuck ps. Growing up near Montreal...Go Habs. Oh yeah, they aren't playing are they? Eh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted December 4, 2012 Author Share Posted December 4, 2012 Bravo! I wholeheartedly agree! Chuck Thanks, Someone had to do it and talk about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted December 4, 2012 Author Share Posted December 4, 2012 In example... There is many colecovision prototype games that have been rom released... How many CV collectors do you think who would be up to pay top premium dollars for having the REAL prototype itself? .... ALOT OF THEM! Take my word! Prototype are not decreasing in value as long as there is interest in the hobby, wich mean if there is no more interests in the hobby, chances are there will not be any interests in your respective prototype(s$ too And... Releasing prototype roms also play a MAJOR role to raise more interests in the hobby and keep it healthy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamcon Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 MESSAGE TO PROTOTYPE(S) OWNERS! You do realize the amount of prototypes that have been released throughout time, right? How else do you think the world has them to enjoy? I'm sure you've enjoyed some yourself, including Pacman, Matt Patrol, Joust, Fireman, A.E ..etc...... .How did you get to play it? Because people shared it. Sure you don't have to necessarly release the rom (best way to go IMO) and/or making a cartridge/CIB release I personally will never understand the idea of wanting to not preserve a game for all time by spreading it, but rather only wanting to preserve its value to... itself? I know if I ever come across more prototypes, it will be my number one priority to share it one way or another, because look at all the other prototypes out there that have ever been released. I've enjoyed the heck out of the privilege to even being able to play these games that otherwise would have been lost in time if people didn't share. When Smurf Saves the Day, Sword & Sorcerer, Dragon's Lair were found, they were not kept to the owners because they wanted to preserve the games legendary status. They shared it because otherwise the game is no better off than still being lost in time forever. When you keep it to yourself because you want to be exclusive and special(and sure, preserve the games status and value to... itself, whatever that's like.. supposed to be worth?), you're not really doing a favor for the whole community that's probably pulled more favors for you, the average prototype enthusiast, than you'll possibly ever know to acknowledge. When a prototype is shared it's preserved throughout history, and even though more likely than not only the proto itself and not the person that shared it will be remembered, you've at least saved something that could otherwise have been lost to history. What good is a prototype, a piece of history of the hobby you love, to just sit in your closet and being kept to yourself after you've played it and then forget about it? In that case you've pretty much only paid just for the brief while to enjoy it for yourself, then once you're done it just sits there and possibly the media its own will die before you do. That's it, it's gone forever. I understand in the end we all have our own ideals, but as far as general specific stance goes, I don't understand it at all. Next time a prototype or something that interests you comes alone, you should think about what it would be like if the people that released it instead kept it to themselves for the same reasons you may have. You're not really doing anyone any favors. Of course there's the age old argument that you don't owe anyone anything, but I'm seriously doubting you haven't enjoyed some of the things out there that have been released by people that didn't owe you anything either. But they shared anyway. At least with prototypes, there is a group ( CV Brotherhood) that will release EVERY prototypes they found/bough, and that are being very generous, so I would say you're going to yet again get the privilege soon enough to enjoy other games that could have been lost in history forever. So, be patient! A.E & SOS Cat are going to SOON have a rom release! Cheers Prototype Owners! J-F JF, nobody could have said it better. AND made a convincing and sane argument to share any prototype, lost, unrelease, ets stuff from Coleco and other mankers. BRAVO, my hero !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColecoDan Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 What else is out there that people haven't shared though, other than He-Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted December 4, 2012 Author Share Posted December 4, 2012 JF, nobody could have said it better. AND made a convincing and sane argument to share any prototype, lost, unrelease, ets stuff from Coleco and other mankers. BRAVO, my hero !! I'm just kind of getting jealous of all other community that share or sell copy of their prototype games! This IS NOT happening much in the CV community! Thumbs up to those who already did! Those are the heros! The most argument I heard was, We will have problem with copyright etc.. You know what? BULLSHIT! Just leak the damn rom by accident and make the whole community HAPPY!!!!!!!!!!!! Anyway, Take my word, the ColecoVision Brotherhood was created in that perspective And members of it, are always PLEASED to help acquiring rare stuff to preserve and SHARE to all fans Sure, you can't share a piece of hardware, but people can always show pics or scans of the piece itself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted December 4, 2012 Author Share Posted December 4, 2012 What else is out there that people haven't shared though, other than He-Man i would say there is about 25 unreleased games that we could play if .................. To name only a few He Man Cabbage Patch Kids Workout Pole Position Wizard of Wor Tac / Scan And the list goes! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 And just to push the thing, ...just.. A little far There is members HERE, on AtariAge who OWN Colecovision prototype game(s) I know some of them, but I will not obviously reveal their names Please, guys release the roms, or contact me for arrangement, the CV Brotherhood will work something out with you and I'm sure everyone will be happy with the results 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coleco_master Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: J-F, you are SOOOO right!!!!!!!!! :) :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIAD Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Well said J-F! This is exactly the credo I have lived by since back in the 80's when I worked for and then took over N.I.A.D. (ColecoVision & ADAM users group). We were in an advantageous position of having direct contact to Coleco personal which lead to many successes such as the "unofficial" release of quite a number of unreleased software titles and cartridge prototype such as: - Super SubRoc - Troll's Tale - The Best of Electronic Arts - SmartBASIC v2.0 - Jeopardy - ColecoVision Final Test - ADAM Diagnostic - etc., etc. I have to tip my hat to all the hard work that was put in by NIAD's founder, Lyle Marschand, in finally getting these and other titles released. Many others over the years spent considerable time and money to secure ColecoVision prototypes and unreleased games and shared them with the community as well, such as: - MASH - The Yolks on You - Fall Guy - Escape from the MindMaster - TeleGames (yes, they did a lot of good for the ColecoVision and ADAM owners) - Sean Kelly and C.G.E. - etc., etc. etc. And in recent years there have been a couple GREAT finds such as ColecoNut's acquisition of Fireman and then the eventual release of the game in CIB form and your own acquisition of the Caterpillar S.O.S. cartridge that again will be shared with the community as a CIB release and then an eventual rom release. I have even had my recent successes with the acquisition of numerous CV & ADAM warez like A.E. (which I handed off to you to make a CIB release and then a rom release when sold out), Go-No-Go by Nuvatec and ADAM Tape/Disk verification by Coleco... all of which I made available here on AtariAge for the benefit of all. But there is so much more that is out there that can really generate a lot of great buzz about the CV & ADAM Community, not only unreleased/prototype cart and software warez, but printed literature such as catalogs (see my recent posts on here about the KidVid Voice Module, CPK: Workout, Dukes of Hazzard and Destructor that were shared with me by another longtime Coleco fan and collector), ads, flyers and on, and on. In the end, all this great stuff that NEEDS to be made available along with all the tremendous work current day programmers and Homebrew Publishers are releasing will only add to the continued viability of these systems. While the list of unreleased/prototype warez has dwindled considerably over the years, there are still a good number out there in various forms of completion that need to be preserved in mass before they are lost forever via bit-rot, disinterest, accident, death or what have you. Even if those that may own such items will not release the game for distribution, it still is very important to document everything properly with pictures and video which in the end is another means to use to increase the value of your prized possession(s). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 Jim I know that you contributed alot in the past and so you do and I'm truly gratefull with all you have done and are still doing! Thanks! And long live to the Brotherhood! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIAD Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 As I tell my wife every night... it's better to give than to receive! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RelliK111 Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 (edited) Well said JF and I hope that will spark some people to share some of those prototypes! Like you said you can only gain by sharing! You never lose anything! Edited December 5, 2012 by RelliK111 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youki Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Objectivly on a strict business point of view, i think having a prototype where the rom never get released is better. Like having prototype of released game is less interresting. But as i don't care about Business, if i had a prototype (except my own game prototype that i hope to complete one day...) i will make in sort to release rom. So i agree with J-F : Free prototype Roms!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColecoDan Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Actually these people have already done themselves a disservice because since they didn't release them and I had no idea all these things existed, If they would try to sell it, I would think they are fake and wouldn't pay for them. If they were smart they would at least acknowledge their existence and put pictures up so people can see they exist and know that they are out there. Hopefully they actually have drafted a will as well so that when they die their kids don't just throw it out as old junk and then we lose it forever. If you are keeping it for monetary reasons with the recent explosion of money for things this is probably the best time to sell it. Otherwise you are just taking a chance that another one isn't found and they release it and then your item is not worth as much anymore. I would sell now if that was the only reason you were keeping it. If you are just keeping it because you are happy being the only one that has it and you won't share then your an A$$ and you might as well leave the community because you are a worthless human being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+nanochess Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 A pretty difficult topic. If I were a collector I would be very worried to lose of sight a valuable prototype, and by valuable sometimes we're not talking of money but some emotional value. Next point, some collectors (as I've read before in Atariage) doesn't want to release even ROM files because they think his prototype loses value or they paid a very high price so they don't want everybody else to enjoy it for free. Another point, other collectors (also seen in Atariage) would like to release ROM files but they don't want to see it commercially distributed, and though here in Atariage people is very educated, we have seen the ebay surge of not-so-good people that marks everything as "rare" Anyway my proposal is that collectors should take good quality pictures for the history's benefit and get equipment to dump ROM on their own, as the ROM continously oxydizes and would be a shame (even for the collector) to lose something unique. Maybe sometimes even the collector wants to remain anonymous, so I suggest to send pictures to NYAD just to tell that in effect the prototype exists, and maybe in some time, the collector would like to share the ROM under his terms, maybe even selling the dump and keeping the original prototype, I'm sure everybody here would contribute some money in order to release ROM for community benefit. Certainly I would put some money to contribute to pay for the ROM of Wizard of Wor or He Man. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblenkle Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I'm pretty die-hard in my belief that prototypes should be shared with everyone (at least in rom format). To not do so is selfish. For me it's all about playing new games. I would never want to be the only person in possession of that game. What fun is that??? The real value in a protoype is having the actual cartridge or board the game came from...so the idea it would lose it's value if the rom was released isn't valid. A true collector would want the real thing...not just the rom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckH Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 It was mentioned that there is a Pole Position prototype out there with someone. I've never heard of that before. Is that for real? We could sure use some more racing games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted December 6, 2012 Author Share Posted December 6, 2012 It was mentioned that there is a Pole Position prototype out there with someone. I've never heard of that before. Is that for real? We could sure use some more racing games. Yeah, someone have Pole Position proto in his possession Hope to ever see that one release someday.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIAD Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I've really been giving this whole subject matter considerable thought since you first started this thread and the best that I can descibe my personal feelings about this is.... For items that I have in my possession like the Prototype Hand Controller, all the In-House CV & ADAM Utilities, Video Hustler prototype, etc., etc., I don't feel that I own them, per say even though I do, so much as I have them in my possession and therefore a responsibility to all the other great CV & ADAM collectors and fans to share as much information, pictures and even dumps as possible so that everyone can benefit from my good fortune of acquiring them. The community deserves to be able to experience in one way shape or form all this great stuff like the original programmers and developers had originally intended. It is our job and responsibility to carry on what they had originally set out to do some 30 odd years ago, if not, it's sure is a crying shame that detracts from all the great work these people were able to accomplish. I also think that in the case of making rom dumps available of prototype and unreleased games does not in any way, shape or form diminish the value of the original. For example, if ColecoNut were to put up for auction the Fireman cart that he owns, I know there is no way that I would pass up on the opportunity to acquire it even though I own the Homebrew CIB release. Another great example are all the AtariSoft reproductions of prototype games that were made by C.G.E. and numerous others... let the original proto show up for auction and sit back and enjoy the bidding war that will insue to acquire them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 Well said Jim! As for me, I also collect Coleco toys form their debut till the brankruptcy just to be able to give all of them to futur museum Sharing hardware itself is almost impossible unless you simply post pictures of the unit (wich is already super nice) and/or dump usefull informations on chips But I would not hesitate to give my CV Purple Boxed Prototype System to a serious museum It can sounds kind of weird, but what If I die tomorow? Will my wife will sell my things on ebay? Will she give all those things to my son? Or just trow them at salvation army? My place could also take in fire We just never know! And that is why I think those things must be gave to a museum Ok, the museum can also take on fire.... But at least alot of exposure in a video game museum All prototypes are really fun to collect and you are also proud of having it But people have to preserve those! Even if you dump a cartridge if you are the only one to own the rom it serve nothing Preserving = Sharing Sharing = Preserving One need the other to be effective Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 I will also add.... Its a huge responsability to own prototype(s) IMO Because, if you care, I mean, IF YOU REALLY CARE about preserving memories of a game system and its games YOU HAVE to make sure to dump the prototype rom(s) in the case of a software , and seriously think, at least at some point of your life to make sure those hadware(s) would go into a serious Video Games Museum I don't care about the value of prototype(s)...and just how could you put a value on those? ... For me its all about lovin ColecoVision and just do my part to preserve most things as possible so they will not be forgotten forever 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIAD Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) Edited December 7, 2012 by NIAD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblenkle Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 If I died tomorrow, my wife would be calling someone to rent a big dumpster to throw all my computer...ummm...what's the word she uses???...ummmm...oh yes, "crap"...away.... It can sounds kind of weird, but what If I die tomorow? Will my wife will sell my things on ebay? Will she give all those things to my son? Or just trow them at salvation army? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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