+mizapf Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 When Kevin brought up the part about the F18A being actively supported, it struck a chord with me. It's good that the F18A is becoming the de facto standard as it is, because, like it or not, the 9938 is an old chip, and you can't get new ones. Eventually, the last 9938 will fail (albeit, probably not for quite some time!) and after which, there won't be any more. The day my 9938 fails will be the day when my TI (more specifically, Geneve) hardware era will be over. Sad thought. If I'm going to write new software it will certainly support the 9938, but this is a personal preference and has no real connection to the F18A discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Writing it in C would make things easier, but I don't know how practical that will be. The GPU is going to do the update part, so at least that code would be common. The host system part will be responsible for getting the data into VRAM in some predefined chunk size. I think a mega-cart would make the update much easier than a disk-based solution. I almost expect consoles to be easier than computer systems. Most console people don't make their own cartridges, so distribution of that code is a LOT harder. We are a bit weird in the TI community in having such easy access to parts for making cartridges. While it's true only the loader would be in C, that's still easier to port than assembly. I'm not suggesting to write the TI version in C, unless you like evaluating compiler issues - GCC is not fully stable yet. (as a side note, I am not sure I like how the new forum deletes the quote history and gives only the current stuff.... oh well.) For any other combination ("00", "01", "10") I used the two LSbits as-is. That was my mistake. It's not a bug, it's a feature! It's so easy to patch any software that does this, though, I don't really see the big deal. It's a one-byte fix in most programs, and the location of that byte is very easy to find. Ok, I didn't know that. I thought you had implemented some basic 9938 support already in Classic99. My official stance is that I will not support the 9938 in Classic99. The effort required to software support is not worth it to me, and people who want the 9938 can use MESS or Fred Kaal's emulator. Classic99 /had/ some 9938 support back in the DOS days, written by a Mr Meier (hope I spelled that right), but when we fell out of touch I ended up deprecating that code and removing it, because I could not maintain it. The F18A fits in the 250K gate device (which was my target), however I could put a 500K gate FPGA on the board (albeit at double the cost for the FPGA). If you did that I would still change the name, to avoid confusion about what firmware works on which. I should have considered this when I did the layout of the original F18A, but alas I did not. I'm inclined to leave it alone though. As for taking out the counters and RNGs, that does *not* free up any block-RAM. I was simply considering taking them out because there seems to be zero interest in them and it would ease the design which is currently at 99% utilization. We did talk about this in the early days of your design, and your decision was that you didn't need to for the 9918A, and you wanted to squeeze it down onto the 250K chip for cost. What we need next is not 16k more VRAM, but a cheap and easy SAMS adapter with a meg onboard that we can all install. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+InsaneMultitasker Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 The day my 9938 fails will be the day when my TI (more specifically, Geneve) hardware era will be over. Sad thought. Or you -might- be able to wrangle a 9938 from one of the two folks who still repair Myarc equipment 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+InsaneMultitasker Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 I assumed hundreds of programs, since the only thing the 99/4A and Geneve have that used the 9938 is 80-column programs. There must be years of 80-column development out there just waiting! Ironically the Geneve probably helped foster TI-compatible 80-column programs, as programmers wanted to retain compatibility between the two systems. GIF viewers and similar art-related programs use bitmap modes though they require video RAM not available to the 9918. Most native Geneve programs use the 80-column display mode but their output is tied into the OS's video routines. This and other OS-dependencies make most Geneve programs unusable in a TI system. Honestly, I have a tough time coming up with more than twenty 9938/9958 80-column programs. Someone with a TI and 9938/9958 device would be better suited to share (and remember) programs that might work with the F18A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 I'm also sick of PCB-pins and anything I do next will be externally plug-in via an existing interface. ROTFLMAO! I bet! If you want my opinion for an idea.... give me a PM sometime! I have (what I consider) a great idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertLM78 Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Are there known issues with 80-column FunnelWeb and the F18A? In particular, DiskReview? I'll see if I can't reproduce it, but while copying some files I had the screen go garbled on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 I thought 80 column FunnelWeb relied on the 9938's additional VRAM? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkeey Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 The day my 9938 fails will be the day when my TI (more specifically, Geneve) hardware era will be over. Sad thought. I am sure that you can cannibalize one from something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXB Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 With a cheap chip set I suppose someone could make a drop in knock off of the 9918/9938/9958 chips. I am not a hardware guy but chips that small are pretty cheap aren't'nt they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Maybe until then MESS is good enough so that I do not need the real hardware anymore. It's hypothetical, anyway. I wanted to point out something beyond. Gregallenwarner saying "the F18A actively supported ... eventually, the last 9938 will fail" hits me as a Geneve user, as it sounds in my ears like "why bother about the 9938", and this is something I certainly won't agree with. There are still people with a 9938 in a Geneve or on the EVPC (80 column card). The F18A is not intended to show 9938 compatibility. But it should be reasonable to include some kind of auto-detection in future code to adapt to either one of the chips as far as similar features are concerned (like 80 cols). This should be possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertLM78 Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 (edited) I thought 80 column FunnelWeb relied on the 9938's additional VRAM? Whoopsie :oops: . I'm sure you're right - I didn't even think about the 9938 . Ah well, I guess I'll just be sticking with 40-col FWeb - which is just fine with me, since I already have that set up for my system . (Not an easy task, considering I have only two SSSD drives) Thanks Tursi! Edited November 17, 2013 by RobertLM78 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertLM78 Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 ...But it should be reasonable to include some kind of auto-detection in future code to adapt to either one of the chips as far as similar features are concerned (like 80 cols). This should be possible. I think that's a great way to move forward. I don't think the 9938 should be forgotten about, seeing as they are still very much out there in the wild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXB Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 (edited) I thought 80 column FunnelWeb relied on the 9938's additional VRAM? Yes it does. FW80 was my main Text Editor for GPL to compile as I could load the entire file with the 128K of RAM in the TIM card. FIRST DRAFT was supposed to be a SAMS version like FunnelWeb but would have had 1Meg of storage. Edited November 17, 2013 by RXB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+InsaneMultitasker Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Maybe until then MESS is good enough so that I do not need the real hardware anymore. It's hypothetical, anyway. I wanted to point out something beyond. Gregallenwarner saying "the F18A actively supported ... eventually, the last 9938 will fail" hits me as a Geneve user, as it sounds in my ears like "why bother about the 9938", and this is something I certainly won't agree with. There are still people with a 9938 in a Geneve or on the EVPC (80 column card). The F18A is not intended to show 9938 compatibility. But it should be reasonable to include some kind of auto-detection in future code to adapt to either one of the chips as far as similar features are concerned (like 80 cols). This should be possible. This reminds me.... I wonder what ever happened to the Geneve 2. Wasn't it supposed to include 9938 compatibility similar to how Matthew is emulating the 9918? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXB Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) Ok I necro this forum as it is a random question on my new F18 and NOW I HAVE NO SOUND FROM TI99/4A No matter what I do where the hell did the sound go? How do you guys get sound out of the TI99/4A now with F18 installed? Also when I plug any sound device outuput into Right side channel it blanks the screen? But Left channel does not???? I love the looks of the F18 output, but damn it I want sound. Edited August 9, 2018 by RXB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jedimatt42 Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 Sound is supposed to just come out of the legacy 4A din connector. That is a mono connection, so not sure what you mean by left side and right side. If I remember correctly, the clock for the sound chip comes from the VDP. So if you have no sound after getting the cabling correct, check the jumpers on the f18A. -M@ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmusr Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 (edited) That is a mono connection, so not sure what you mean by left side and right side. Composite cables usually have two audio connectors (red and white) but both should originate from the same mono source. Edited August 10, 2018 by Asmusr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jedimatt42 Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 But TI av cables in the US usually come in one of two varieties. 1) a 5 pin to 2x RCA, where one RCA is video and one is audio. 2) an Atari av cable, with 3 RCA. Still only one is audio. Rich, you should get a multimeter out, map the RCA connectors to the 5 pin din, and consult the pinouts that are probably on mainbyte or ti-tech-pages. -M@ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXB Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 Composite cables usually have two audio connectors (red and white) but both should originate from the same mono source. Yea when I hooked up the F18 to my VGA LCD it worked great but nothing I did could produce sound so I assumed (nothing in documentation mentioned this) that I needed old DIN cable for sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXB Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 See this is the result of hardware guys just assume you are a hardware guy. Like I hand you a Truck Part and you just know what it is and where it goes on the Truck and how to troubleshoot or fix it, and have the specialized tools to do that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmusr Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 OK, so you have the DIN/composite cable connected but still no sound? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXB Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 Sound is supposed to just come out of the legacy 4A din connector. That is a mono connection, so not sure what you mean by left side and right side. If I remember correctly, the clock for the sound chip comes from the VDP. So if you have no sound after getting the cabling correct, check the jumpers on the f18A. -M@ Thank you! Ok so I need to tear apart the Console and look at the jumpers, so what do I do if they are the right settings? The console worked fine before the F18 and had sound, what changed other than the F18? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXB Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 OK, so you have the DIN/composite cable connected but still no sound? Yea nothing at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXB Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 Let me tear it apart and look, have to go to doctor now so have to do it when I get back. LOL will rant when I get back. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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