agradeneu Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 On 8/19/2021 at 6:08 AM, JagChris said: I just stumbled upon watching those videos earlier today. That is really impressive that that man took the Jag Doom source code converted it over to a system it wasn't built for. And he keeps re-working it so it's already out performing the Jag version. It looks like all the frames of animation for the Jag 3D monsters are in along with transparencies. Amazing what you guys did in about six months. it even looks like he released a couple builds for the community to enjoy. I'll have to turn Kega Fusion on and follow this with great interest. The original 32X was based on the Jag version so I heard. https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Atari_Jaguar So question is why ID downgraded the original version so much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 Sega did the 32X conversion. I'm guessing rushed out for Christmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, JagChris said: Sega did the 32X conversion. I'm guessing rushed out for Christmas. Sega was the publisher. Both ports were handled by ID. Mostly by Carmack himself. The 32X port is based on the Jaguar port. https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Sega_32X Hence it was always Jag doom running on 32X Edited August 20, 2021 by agradeneu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 Hmm ok I corresponded with a programmer who claims he worked for Sega and helped convert it but could have been a chain pull. Either way I'm guessing Christmas rush. It's a shame all around quite frankly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 Just now, JagChris said: Hmm ok I corresponded with a programmer who claims he worked for Sega and helped convert it but could have been a chain pull. Either way I'm guessing Christmas rush. It's a shame all around quite frankly. Carmack was working for Sega. Anyway, 32X was a downgraded version of Jaguar Doom to begin with. Its great to see what optimization can do for the 32X. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 Unfortunately both were downgraded far more than they should have been. I think the N64 and PSX are the only ones that got decent effort put into them. Do you have a 32X? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 13 hours ago, ataritiger said: Chilly can you pm me rom to play on my everdrive? What revision is build so far? Chilly, you are the man. I think one of jag open source you had was checkered flag, yes im sure you could make steering wayyy better than current steer fix rom for jag...thx for checking it out in future. Many might disagree, but I like graphics on checkered flag better than svp genesis vr < but that has great gameplay however 32x vrd is better than any of them with great steering plus grest graphics but if you fix checkered flag way better than "current fix" it might be just be behind 32x vrd! BTW, You sent me like 10 source codes wayyy back in day but I can't do anything with them, maybe somebody else ? can help you. Btw I told yall chilly willy was real deal ! I rather would like to see some 32x games ported to the Jaguar but that would require some serious work and there are licensing issues. For Checkered Flag, I doubt its a quick fix, its not only about addressing the bad controls, the AI would need some major improvements as well. Allegedly, all the game logic is running on the 68K. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, JagChris said: Unfortunately both were downgraded far more than they should have been. I think the N64 and PSX are the only ones that got decent effort put into them. Do you have a 32X? No. ? Yeah probably, but I think the Jaguar version was great considering the time and budget limitations. Unlike other versions, Carmack himself handled the ports and they are much better than the Saturn or 3DO. The PS1 is way superior to the Jaguar, it hardly sweats running Doom. The fun fact is that all those console ports derived from the Jaguar source code of Doom. Edited August 20, 2021 by agradeneu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sporadic Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 47 minutes ago, agradeneu said: For Checkered Flag, I doubt its a quick fix, its not only about addressing the bad controls, the AI would need some major improvements as well. Allegedly, all the game logic is running on the 68K. If working from the only released Checkered Flag source code, there's other things to fix too. Such as the missing horizons (although CJ helped extract those and they are in the programming thread, I think), all the random missing 3D hills/mountains (seems like the coords for the Normals are messed up), the rain overlay killing performance (unlike the final release). When having a mess around months ago, I did change the chase camera to more directly follow the car instead of lerping (and taking ages to track the turn speed). That did seem to help a bit in my opinion. Without gaining any performance, it's always going to be painful to drive. Taking the AI and collision routines out (and various other things) didn't really help performance. I even removed most scenery from a track so it had less to draw. It needs a deeper dive to find out where it's losing frames. It's one of those games I really want to like so at some point I'll probably keep poking at it, even just out of curiosity. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostdragon Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 1 hour ago, JagChris said: Hmm ok I corresponded with a programmer who claims he worked for Sega and helped convert it but could have been a chain pull. Either way I'm guessing Christmas rush. It's a shame all around quite frankly. That's always been my impression, Sega simply needed this out in time for the essential Xmas market, so it was rushed. Sega had rum luck with Doom, both the 32X and Saturn ports far below what they could of been. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 Such a popular game I'm surprised they didn't do a gold edition or something a little later for most of these systems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostdragon Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 5 hours ago, agradeneu said: For Checkered Flag, I doubt its a quick fix, its not only about addressing the bad controls, the AI would need some major improvements as well. Allegedly, all the game logic is running on the 68K. No. ? Yeah probably, but I think the Jaguar version was great considering the time and budget limitations. Unlike other versions, Carmack himself handled the ports and they are much better than the Saturn or 3DO. The PS1 is way superior to the Jaguar, it hardly sweats running Doom. The fun fact is that all those console ports derived from the Jaguar source code of Doom. Well Whittaker ran all the A. I routines on AVP on the 68000, so it wouldn't surprise me at all C. F used it as well, it wasn't until they started on Projects like Hammerhead/Skyhammer and Legions Of The Undead that the teams at Rebellion really appeared to be familiar with the hardware, to the point it was being used at it's best. C. F was the coders first commercial title apparently. Yep Doom didn't get the Playstation sweating, it took something like Hammerhead converting Quake II to really push the hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirlynxalot Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 (edited) Regarding Doom 32x, I've seen this quote in a couple places suggesting that Carmack was physically at Sega of America's office personally working on porting Doom to the 32x. The 32x came out just before Christmas and there are prototype builds of Doom 32x on the net from September-October 1994, so I wouldn't be surprised if Carmack just had like 6-8 weeks to work on porting the game to very unusual hardware he wasn't used to, and the lack of refinement was just due to rushing it out before Christmas without spending the extra time to refine it more. Quote In an interview about the 32X for Retro Gamer, Scot Bayless (a senior producer at SEGA of America) had the following to say about the game's development and the 32X itself: "I spent weeks working with Id Software’s John Carmack, who literally camped out at the Sega of America building in Redwood City trying to get Doom ported. That guy worked his ass off and he still had to cut a third of the levels to get it done in time. What amazes me now is that with all that going on, nobody at Sega was willing to say "Wait a minute, what are we doing? Why don’t we just stop?" Sega should have killed the 32X in the spring of 1994, but we didn’t. We stormed the hill, and when we got to the top we realized it was the wrong damn hill." Edited August 20, 2021 by sirlynxalot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostdragon Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Since we are talking 32X Doom ? 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostdragon Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 On 8/20/2021 at 10:54 PM, sirlynxalot said: Regarding Doom 32x, I've seen this quote in a couple places suggesting that Carmack was physically at Sega of America's office personally working on porting Doom to the 32x. The 32x came out just before Christmas and there are prototype builds of Doom 32x on the net from September-October 1994, so I wouldn't be surprised if Carmack just had like 6-8 weeks to work on porting the game to very unusual hardware he wasn't used to, and the lack of refinement was just due to rushing it out before Christmas without spending the extra time to refine it more. Reported as being done by id in this magazine at the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostdragon Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 On 8/20/2021 at 11:35 AM, JagChris said: Hmm ok I corresponded with a programmer who claims he worked for Sega and helped convert it but could have been a chain pull. Either way I'm guessing Christmas rush. It's a shame all around quite frankly. Official UK SEGA Magazine claimed Id didn't have time to do the 32X version, so it was licensed to Sega Of America who'd be carrying out the conversion themselves. Jay Wilbur used as a source for the claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 31 minutes ago, Lostdragon said: Official UK SEGA Magazine claimed Id didn't have time to do the 32X version, so it was licensed to Sega Of America who'd be carrying out the conversion themselves. Jay Wilbur used as a source for the claim. I think John Carmack himself told that he ported Doom to the 32X at Sega HQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirlynxalot Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 Seems like a sega programmer and Carmack were both working together at sega HQ on the conversion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostdragon Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 6 hours ago, sirlynxalot said: Seems like a sega programmer and Carmack were both working together at sega HQ on the conversion. That's make sense, Carmack overseeing and assisting the Sega team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots.genoa Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 And working at the publisher's HQ is not unheard of. PC Engine ports were often developed by subcontractors at Hudson for instance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostdragon Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 Official UK Sega Magazine itself confused over who was coding 32X Doom it seems.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 On 8/20/2021 at 3:38 AM, agradeneu said: Carmack was working for Sega. Anyway, 32X was a downgraded version of Jaguar Doom to begin with. Its great to see what optimization can do for the 32X. How about split screen? It's no longer a downgraded version. It's running away with it... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 14 hours ago, JagChris said: How about split screen? It's no longer a downgraded version. It's running away with it... Nice, what is the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+cubanismo Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 1 hour ago, agradeneu said: Nice, what is the problem? The problem is I have a Jaguar, not a 32x ? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 1 hour ago, cubanismo said: The problem is I have a Jaguar, not a 32x ? Well, its basically the Jag version with split screen. So what you are missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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