colonelsnow Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Is there any chance of releasing on update to improve the menu on LCD tvs? The menu is barely readable on my TV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Every LCD reacts different to flickering, so there is no general solution. What is the problem in your case? Also, did you try the TV's option, e.g. disabling picture optimization algorithms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 If your LCD has a "Game Mode" turn it on. That'll disable a lot of the special processing that messes up video games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonelsnow Posted January 27, 2013 Author Share Posted January 27, 2013 Game Mode does not seems to help. The text is very pixelated and fuzzy compared for example to how sharp the numbers in the score on s game like Astroblast appear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Well, the numbers in Astroblast are huge compared to the font Harmony uses. Does your TV maybe have problems with small fonts in Atari 2600 games in general? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) Load up Space Rocks - it uses a non-flickered small font for the menu, and a flickered small font in the easter egg. To access the easter egg: using 2 joysticks, hold down the right joystick's fire button then hit the left joystick's fire button If you can't see the menu well then your TV has a problem resolving small detail. If you see the menu OK but not the easter egg text then your TV doesn't correctly display objects that are flickering at 30 Hz. Besides text, that could lead to problems with other games, such as Space Invaders which flicker all the shots at 30 Hz. Edited January 27, 2013 by SpiceWare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonelsnow Posted January 27, 2013 Author Share Posted January 27, 2013 Load up Space Rocks - it uses a non-flickered small font for the menu, and a flickered small font in the easter egg. To access the easter egg: using 2 joysticks, hold down the right joystick's fire button then hit the left joystick's fire button If you can't see the menu well then your TV has a problem resolving small detail. If you see the menu OK but not the easter egg text then your TV doesn't correctly display objects that are flickering at 30 Hz. Besides text, that could lead to problems with other games, such as Space Invaders which flicker all the shots at 30 Hz. Thanks for that suggestion. The main menu is not clear on Space Rocks. I took my 2600 to a friends house who has a CRT and the result is the same. I guess I either have a bad Harmony or a faulty compisite mod on my 2600 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Most likely the composite mode then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonelsnow Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 Most likely the composite mode then Do any commercially released games come to mind that would have small fonts so I can test an actual cart to rule out the Harmony? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Most, if not all, Activision games use a small font to show Activision at the bottom of the screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonelsnow Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 Most, if not all, Activision games use a small font to show Activision at the bottom of the screen. Thanks. I tried that and the Activision logo is much more clear. There must be something wrong with the Harmony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Then it must be the flicker, which your hardware doesn't like. You could try Stellar Track and check if the text there is badly readably there too. BTW: Can you post a picture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Thanks. I tried that and the Activision logo is much more clear. There must be something wrong with the Harmony. You did try the same Activision game on the Harmony, right? Because I can't conceive of anything that could cause a display issue on Harmony but not the same cart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonelsnow Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) Then it must be the flicker, which your hardware doesn't like. You could try Stellar Track and check if the text there is badly readably there too. BTW: Can you post a picture? Here are two pictures. One is of the menu and one is of Space Rocks. The menu actually looks a little better in this picture than it does on the TV. Maybe I am being unrealistic about how clear the lettering will be? http://img.auctiva.c...642914403_o.jpg http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/5/1/4/3/0/webimg/642914378_o.jpg Edited January 30, 2013 by colonelsnow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I don't think you have a bad cart. What you are seeing is the combination of limitations of a console that was designed in 1977, that was never intended to display 24-column text on screen in the first place. These will look worse on a modern television that doesn't like to display 30 Hz flickering. There's nothing we can do to improve the appearance of the menu - the 2600 is basically already stretched to the limit to get 24 columns on there. As to why the Activision logo looks better - I will say it's high contrast and lack of flickering (it's only a few characters, not 24, so none needed.) So I guess if you're unsatisfied with the menu readability, you can return the cart for a full refund. There's not much else I can do. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonelsnow Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 I don't think you have a bad cart. What you are seeing is the combination of limitations of a console that was designed in 1977, that was never intended to display 24-column text on screen in the first place. These will look worse on a modern television that doesn't like to display 30 Hz flickering. There's nothing we can do to improve the appearance of the menu - the 2600 is basically already stretched to the limit to get 24 columns on there. As to why the Activision logo looks better - I will say it's high contrast and lack of flickering (it's only a few characters, not 24, so none needed.) So I guess if you're unsatisfied with the menu readability, you can return the cart for a full refund. There's not much else I can do. Sorry. I love the cart. I just wanted to make the menu display better if possible. Did you look at the photos that I posted earlier in the thread? Is the menu pretty much how you would expect it to look? I just want to also rule out my 2600 having an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 That's how it looks on my plasma TV. My plasma hates the flickering and I've not been able to get it to display both frames in a more readable manner. It is infinitely more readable on my old commodore 1084 monitor, though, so that's my preferred method of playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 How are you connecting the 2600 to the TV? The method you use can have a big effect on quality of fine details. Top quality is usually had through a video mod with s-video out, but even a video mod with composite is dramatically better for details than an rf box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 http://img.auctiva.c...642914403_o.jpg http://img.auctiva.c...642914378_o.jpg The 2nd picture clearly shows, that your TV doesn't melt together two consecutive frames (like CRT do). So there is no phosphor effect at all. Maybe there is a setting in your TV menu which enables this effect somehow. You should try to play wilth those options. Else I am afraid there is not much we or you can do (besides buying a different TV ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonelsnow Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 The 2nd picture clearly shows, that your TV doesn't melt together two consecutive frames (like CRT do). So there is no phosphor effect at all. Maybe there is a setting in your TV menu which enables this effect somehow. You should try to play wilth those options. Else I am afraid there is not much we or you can do (besides buying a different TV ). The only thing that puzzles me is the picture was nearly identical when I hooked up to a CRT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iesposta Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 The only thing that puzzles me is the picture was nearly identical when I hooked up to a CRT. Do a better composite mod or S-Video mod. I have had great results with the "Transistor and resistors" mod as well as longhorn's and batari's S-video boards in 2600s 7800s and Sega Genesis. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csonicgo Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Hearing this makes me rage inside. this is the worst downside to new TVs, they try to "fix" the signal too much and a lot of detail is lost. NES games will sometimes have sprites with lines through them. it beats all I have ever seen. Did anyone test these tvs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slackerwithin Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I have the same problem. It looks just like his second picture. I output through a composite mod into an 46 inch LED. Most of the games don't look great either. I figured the TV and Atari didn't mesh.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snstay Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Do a better composite mod or S-Video mod. I have had great results with the "Transistor and resistors" mod as well as longhorn's and batari's S-video boards in 2600s 7800s and Sega Genesis. what is this transistor and resistor mod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iesposta Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) Do a better composite mod or S-Video mod. I have had great results with the "Transistor and resistors" mod as well as longhorn's and batari's S-video boards in 2600s 7800s and Sega Genesis. what is this transistor and resistor mod Found it : http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/127926-easier-7800-composite-video-mod/#entry1543881 For composite on 7800. Cost $0. Found all the parts in my scrap box! Edited February 5, 2013 by iesposta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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