Light Guns and 100 HZ CRT tvs

[F4LL3N]

Hi all,

 

I've been told that the light guns do not work (NES etc) on refresh rates of 100 HZ (CRT). I have a 28" Trinitron TV which could possibly be 100 HZ but my PS1 and PS2 guns work fine, possibly because they also use a video cable from the gun?

 

I'm asking if light guns on things like the NES really do have a problem with 100 HZ TVs as I'd like to get a larger CRT but they all pretty much have a refresh rate of 100 HZ. I don't have a NES so can't test but I'm planning on getting one for duck hunt hence asking =)

 

Many thanks for all your help.

 

F4LL3N

[goldenegg]

What I've found to have a bigger impact on the older light guns is flat vs curved displays. I've never had good experience with NES or SMS guns and flat displays. They can work, but are extremely inconsistent.

 

Light guns for the SNES and later seem to work decently on flat displays.

[F4LL3N]

That helps but the bigger crt TVs (say 42 ") seem to be flat rather than curved unless someone can recommend a particular tv? I'm looking for 42 or 46 preferably.

[goldenegg]

Ah, so you're looking at rear projection displays. Those tend to be pretty hit or miss as to whether they work with older light guns. I used to have a 40" Toshiba, which worked perfectly with light guns. My friend's 40" Panasonic wouldn't work with them at all.

 

My only advise here is to try before you buy.

[0078265317]

I had a toshiba 32" flat back in the 90s. Worked fine with duck hunt.

[twoquickcapri]

I have a Sony HD CRT (36XS-955) 120 Hz TV and light gun games don"t work on it. I've tried it with a NES, Genesis, Saturn, and PS1 none of them work.

[Tempest]

I have a Sony HD CRT (36XS-955) 120 Hz TV and light gun games don"t work on it. I've tried it with a NES, Genesis, Saturn, and PS1 none of them work.

I have the same TV and the same issue.

[0078265317]

You can play duck hunt on an hdtv with a d-interlcaer.

 

 

[0078265317]

Or there is this.

 

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?152840-Add-Scanlines-to-HDTVs-with-New-Device

[Greg2600]

You can play duck hunt on an hdtv with a d-interlcaer.

No, not really. That guy was playing on a CRT HDTV, which like others have said, some of those work, some don't. All that guy did was use an upscaler in the second video, but the truth is his TV would have worked without it most likely. You will NEVER be able to play with original hardware on LCD or Plasma HDTV's.

 

 

Or there is this.

 

http://www.digitpres...with-New-Device

As I said in that DP thread, adding scanlines does nothing.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Greg2600

[0078265317]

As I said in that DP thread, adding scanlines does nothing.

 

But the gun is reflecting off of the scan lines insn't it. Isn't that how it works.

[Greg2600]

There are various methods. However, in general you are right, the guns receive light to a photo diode. What differs is the screen drawing method. However, it's all based on timing of the refresh of the screen. Newer sets are just too far different, they won't work. Scanline generators don't help that.

[+wood_jl]

This thread makes a std-def (cheap or free) CRT television look like something special!

[Greg2600]

This thread makes a std-def (cheap or free) CRT television look like something special!

No doubt, if you still have the room for one. I have light guns and games for SMS, NES, Genesis, PS1, PS2, and Dreamcast, so I don't want to lose the functionality.

[0078265317]

This proves the crt can be flat.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3tBk-LYyzo

Edited February 21, 2013 by 0078265317

[gorfcadet]

Hmm.. so if the theory from that vid is sound, Duck Hunt and others could be hacked to work on an an lcd by extending the time or frames the screen goes black to register a hit? Hmm.

[Schizophretard]

Hmm.. so if the theory from that vid is sound, Duck Hunt and others could be hacked to work on an an lcd by extending the time or frames the screen goes black to register a hit? Hmm.

 

Not exactly. Every model of LCD has a different amount of lag. You would have to have a hack for every model to make sure the exact frame is on screen that the NES thinks is on screen.

[Tr3vor]

I'm guessing that a light gun would work on a 120hz CRT. Since the signal output from most consoles is 60hz, the tv would probably scan the same image twice, so it should theoretically work, unless there is some kind of picture processing going on.

 

I have a flatscreen Sony Trinitron TV and all my lightguns (Zapper and Super Scope) work on it.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Tr3vor

[gorfcadet]

 

 

Not exactly. Every model of LCD has a different amount of lag. You would have to have a hack for every model to make sure the exact frame is on screen that the NES thinks is on screen.

 

But what if the hack instead of trying to replicate the delay for one specific tv, extended the delay and blackout to be more compatible with a larger range of tvs? The screen blackout would be longer and more noticable but the game would be playable.

[Seob]

I'm guessing that a light gun would work on a 120hz CRT. Since the signal output from most consoles is 60hz, the tv would probably scan the same image twice, so it should theoretically work, unless there is some kind of picture processing going on.

 

I have a flatscreen Sony Trinitron TV and all my lightguns (Zapper and Super Scope) work on it.

I recently played a lightgun game on my psx with a namco gun. It worked with my 100Mhz tv, but when i wanted to play a 2 player game, we couldn't get the second namco controller to work. I live in PAL region so 100Hz is double the frequenty of the old 50Hz standard.

Just get a CD-i with a peacekeeper gun and you can play on whatever display you wish.

[F4LL3N]

I'm looking at a Sony rear projection 41" CRT at the mo. apparently the refresh rate is 50 and 60hz. I think it's flat rather than curved. Ive got no way of testing it so I'll just try it and report my findings here. The model is KP41DS1U.

[0078265317]

Or maybe this, he modified the zapper with a lazer. So that might work on lcd right.

 

[0078265317]

OK, I figured out how to do it. You can use darwiin remote as a mouse on mac and then nestopia to play duckhunt. And then configure darwiin to left click as the mouse so you can shoot the ducks. But the pointer is speratic at best. Unless there is a program to keep the window open in full screen and stay on top always. Afloat does not work. Anybody know of one?

[Schizophretard]

But what if the hack instead of trying to replicate the delay for one specific tv, extended the delay and blackout to be more compatible with a larger range of tvs? The screen blackout would be longer and more noticable but the game would be playable.

 

I don't know. It's not just the black out and the white rectangles. It's the ducks. The NES has to think the rectangles and the ducks are located where you see them. If it is somehow hacked to work on all TVs it would still be behaving differently on each TV. It would be like your aim is a little off and off in a way that you would have to compensate for it on each TV you try. It seems like a lot of hassle to try to make a hack that may partially work when a CRT isn't a hassle at all and works flawlessly.

[Schizophretard]

Or maybe this, he modified the zapper with a lazer. So that might work on lcd right.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rdA2QZhsCs

 

No, because as far as the NES is concerned what you see on an HDTV is in the past.