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New homebrew called "Rocketeer"

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Still waiting for my refund.

I was one of the first who supported Rocketeer, paid quickly, showed the ROM on meetings.

 

It seems, as one of the first who paid for both games, I will be one of the last who get's his money back (if at all).

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Can I also have a refund.

On Jan 16 you advised "refunds for all" and I would appreciate mine as soon as possible.

Edited by Utopia
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Currently, I have refunded around 70% of cart sales. As I have said numerous times in this thread there is no point asking for a refund because everybody will be getting a refund, NO EXCEPTION.

Bitching and moaning about the time taken to get your refund will not get you refunded any quicker because there are people in my lists to be processed before you.

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I got a refund -- begrudgingly, even though I fought and bitched and moan not to get one. So I guess "NO EXCEPTION" is right. :)

 

-dZ.

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I'll start this post out by saying that I am brand new to this forum. I described in another post that I am an Intellivision kid who sold off his system and games when I got older and has just recently rekindled my interest and love for this wonderful piece of my childhood. I have absolutely no stake in this situation outlined in the contents of this thread. I have no allegiance to anyone who contributed their thoughts to this thread. I'm just a guy who is new to the forums and has been reading all of the various topics like crazy trying t soak up information on the console that I grew up with. I've read all 73 pages of this thread (sheezus, what a wild ride!). So, I decided to put my thoughts and opinions down in writing because... this is the internet and that's what people do. :) I expect there will be people that agree with me and and others that won't... and that's ok. What a boring worls this would be if we all had the same thoughts and opinions. I'm not trying to stir up any controversy but I have thoughts, like all of you... it's Saturday afternoon and it's 90 degrees outside and I've got nothing better to do... so here goes nothing.

 

After reading through this entire thread as well as checking out other threads (most notably, the Hover Bovver thread and the Hive Multi-cart thread), I see a pattern established by GroovyBee. I believe that the facts of the matter that cannot be disputed are that he has started many a project for the Intellivision but has completed very few (I believe that he has 2 completed projects if I recall correctly... only 1 of which is a truly completed game... in the span of at least 6 years (could be longer but I'm not entirely sure)). That's all well and good. Very few people here are doing Intellivision programming full-time. Everyone has lives outside of this forum and outside of any projects that they may be working on. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that any project undertaken here could take a good deal of time to complete. It's also reasonable to assume that any given project may never see the light of day in the form of a completed piece off work.

 

However, in doing this, he has established what one could certainly call a pattern of "incompleteness". There are several, high-profile (I'll call them that because there are specific threads dedicated to each of them here on the forum) examples.

- Rocketeer was announced 5 years ago and ultimately canceled.

- The Hive Multi-cart was announced 5 years ago and there has been no update from him since April 2017.

- His involvement in Hover Bovver has been detailed in a couple of different threads causing great controversy.

 

I outline these to establish the pattern that anyone who has been involved in GroovyBee's journey in the realm of Intellivision programming should have seen and that pattern should have led a reasonable person to expect that his projects may never see the light of day. It's fine to get excited about the prospect of these projects. Let's face it, Rocketeer and the Hive Multi-cart both looked awesome and had/have great potential to be enjoyable additions to the system that we all love. But, there is nothing to show that they will ever be completed.

 

Having said that, and back to speaking specifically about this thread, GroovyBee decided to ask for pre-orders and, in doing so, take people's money. With that came the promise of a delivered and complete product at some point in the future. I also don't think it unreasonable to expect that anyone who sent him money was entitled to periodic status updates that they shouldn't have had to ask for. The onus is on the person who accepted payment for services/goods to provide his customers with updates. It had been shown time and again that GroovyBee would disappears for weeks or even months at a time from these forums, leaving his customers to wonder about the status of their investment. Again, no one reasonably assumes that everyone on this forum will visit it every day or even every week. Everyone here has lives that take them places they may not expect and puts restrictions on them that take them away from doing things like browsing the internet and posting on forums. Totally understandable. But, to go completely absent for large gaps of time when you have taken money from people who are expecting something from you simply isn't fair or reasonable.

 

With all of that outlined, I think it boils down to 2 main reasons why people became upset.

 

1) Continued lack of acknowledgement that he has handled this situation in a manner that is not in line with that of a reasonable person.

GroovyBee's replies on this thread as well as other threads show someone who simply doesn't believe that he has done anything wrong. His stance was simply, "if you don't want to wait, you can request refund". While that's all well and good, it's simply bad customer service. It's been 5 1/2 months since he announced that he was cancelling Rocketeer and issuing refunds and the refunding process is still not complete and his most recent post was one of aggravation with his customers because they wanted to know where their refund is. I simply don't get the annoyance he is showing at people that he owes money. It would be reasonable to assume that his annoyance along with the extremely long amount of time it is taking to complete the refund process for all of his customers means that he doesn't have the funds readily available to be done with all of this. That would be perfectly acceptable and would account for the long period of time if he would simply come out and admit what is going on versus taking a defiant stance. People will forgive a lot when they feel like they know something and they feel like someone has admitted to doing something they shouldn't have. I feel confident that if GroovyBee had taken this approach the tone of this thread would have been much different.

 

2) Lack of any remorse for putting people who trusted him in a position where they had to question his motives.

Throughout this thread, GroovyBee would take extended periods of time away without posting any status update for his customers. To think that this wouldn't rub anyone who paid money the wrong way isn't reasonable. Again, I know life gets in the way. But, as soon as he decided to take money for work that was not yet complete he had a responsibility to keep his customers informed. When he would come back with updates there was never a sense that he felt badly about putting people out and when they began to voice displeasure he took the "if you don't like it you can request a refund" stance versus trying to empathize with the people who trusted him with their money and offering compassion in his responses for the situation that he had created. It's only natural that people could begin to question his motives.

 

The same holds true in the Hive Multi-cart thread. It was over a year since GroovyBee had replied to that thread and then he appeared in May with a post that was just a laughing emoji. That doesn't seem like a way to endear yourself to a group of people that have remained excited about your work even with overwhelming evidence that support the theory that the work will never get completed/released.

 

Again, the same holds true in the Hover Bovver debacle. We don't know all of the details behind this story, so I won't post my personal opinion on the matter. But, suffice it to say, what has been exposed does not make GroovyBee show in the best light.

 

Long story, short... GroovyBee appears, from everything that I've read and seen, to be a very talented programmer with a ton of potential. He also seems to have what appears to be a challenge with focus. There are years worth of evidence on this forum to support that statement. I hope that GroovyBee can find a way to both hone his talents, find peace in his personal life to allow him time to do more of what he appears to be so good at.. Also, I hope that he finds the ability to be more empathetic to the people that want so badly to support him.

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blaidan: That was a very thoughtful summary that I happen to agree with. I joined here in 2014 and quickly reached the same conclusions that you did.

 

Welcome to the Intellivision party, BTW!

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blaidan: That was a very thoughtful summary that I happen to agree with. I joined here in 2014 and quickly reached the same conclusions that you did.

 

Welcome to the Intellivision party, BTW!

 

Thanks, mthompson. I truly do hope that GroovyBee can find the focus and time to finish some of the projects that he has started. There's so much promise there. I just wonder if that bridge may already have been burned for some people. People can be forgiving. They just need a decent reason to be.

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I'll start this post out by saying that I am brand new to this forum. I described in another post that I am an Intellivision kid who sold off his system and games when I got older and has just recently rekindled my interest and love for this wonderful piece of my childhood. I have absolutely no stake in this situation outlined in the contents of this thread. I have no allegiance to anyone who contributed their thoughts to this thread. I'm just a guy who is new to the forums and has been reading all of the various topics like crazy trying t soak up information on the console that I grew up with. I've read all 73 pages of this thread (sheezus, what a wild ride!). So, I decided to put my thoughts and opinions down in writing because... this is the internet and that's what people do. :) I expect there will be people that agree with me and and others that won't... and that's ok. What a boring worls this would be if we all had the same thoughts and opinions. I'm not trying to stir up any controversy but I have thoughts, like all of you... it's Saturday afternoon and it's 90 degrees outside and I've got nothing better to do... so here goes nothing.

 

After reading through this entire thread as well as checking out other threads (most notably, the Hover Bovver thread and the Hive Multi-cart thread), I see a pattern established by GroovyBee. I believe that the facts of the matter that cannot be disputed are that he has started many a project for the Intellivision but has completed very few (I believe that he has 2 completed projects if I recall correctly... only 1 of which is a truly completed game... in the span of at least 6 years (could be longer but I'm not entirely sure)). That's all well and good. Very few people here are doing Intellivision programming full-time. Everyone has lives outside of this forum and outside of any projects that they may be working on. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that any project undertaken here could take a good deal of time to complete. It's also reasonable to assume that any given project may never see the light of day in the form of a completed piece off work.

 

However, in doing this, he has established what one could certainly call a pattern of "incompleteness". There are several, high-profile (I'll call them that because there are specific threads dedicated to each of them here on the forum) examples.

- Rocketeer was announced 5 years ago and ultimately canceled.

- The Hive Multi-cart was announced 5 years ago and there has been no update from him since April 2017.

- His involvement in Hover Bovver has been detailed in a couple of different threads causing great controversy.

 

I outline these to establish the pattern that anyone who has been involved in GroovyBee's journey in the realm of Intellivision programming should have seen and that pattern should have led a reasonable person to expect that his projects may never see the light of day. It's fine to get excited about the prospect of these projects. Let's face it, Rocketeer and the Hive Multi-cart both looked awesome and had/have great potential to be enjoyable additions to the system that we all love. But, there is nothing to show that they will ever be completed.

 

Having said that, and back to speaking specifically about this thread, GroovyBee decided to ask for pre-orders and, in doing so, take people's money. With that came the promise of a delivered and complete product at some point in the future. I also don't think it unreasonable to expect that anyone who sent him money was entitled to periodic status updates that they shouldn't have had to ask for. The onus is on the person who accepted payment for services/goods to provide his customers with updates. It had been shown time and again that GroovyBee would disappears for weeks or even months at a time from these forums, leaving his customers to wonder about the status of their investment. Again, no one reasonably assumes that everyone on this forum will visit it every day or even every week. Everyone here has lives that take them places they may not expect and puts restrictions on them that take them away from doing things like browsing the internet and posting on forums. Totally understandable. But, to go completely absent for large gaps of time when you have taken money from people who are expecting something from you simply isn't fair or reasonable.

 

With all of that outlined, I think it boils down to 2 main reasons why people became upset.

 

1) Continued lack of acknowledgement that he has handled this situation in a manner that is not in line with that of a reasonable person.

GroovyBee's replies on this thread as well as other threads show someone who simply doesn't believe that he has done anything wrong. His stance was simply, "if you don't want to wait, you can request refund". While that's all well and good, it's simply bad customer service. It's been 5 1/2 months since he announced that he was cancelling Rocketeer and issuing refunds and the refunding process is still not complete and his most recent post was one of aggravation with his customers because they wanted to know where their refund is. I simply don't get the annoyance he is showing at people that he owes money. It would be reasonable to assume that his annoyance along with the extremely long amount of time it is taking to complete the refund process for all of his customers means that he doesn't have the funds readily available to be done with all of this. That would be perfectly acceptable and would account for the long period of time if he would simply come out and admit what is going on versus taking a defiant stance. People will forgive a lot when they feel like they know something and they feel like someone has admitted to doing something they shouldn't have. I feel confident that if GroovyBee had taken this approach the tone of this thread would have been much different.

 

2) Lack of any remorse for putting people who trusted him in a position where they had to question his motives.

Throughout this thread, GroovyBee would take extended periods of time away without posting any status update for his customers. To think that this wouldn't rub anyone who paid money the wrong way isn't reasonable. Again, I know life gets in the way. But, as soon as he decided to take money for work that was not yet complete he had a responsibility to keep his customers informed. When he would come back with updates there was never a sense that he felt badly about putting people out and when they began to voice displeasure he took the "if you don't like it you can request a refund" stance versus trying to empathize with the people who trusted him with their money and offering compassion in his responses for the situation that he had created. It's only natural that people could begin to question his motives.

 

The same holds true in the Hive Multi-cart thread. It was over a year since GroovyBee had replied to that thread and then he appeared in May with a post that was just a laughing emoji. That doesn't seem like a way to endear yourself to a group of people that have remained excited about your work even with overwhelming evidence that support the theory that the work will never get completed/released.

 

Again, the same holds true in the Hover Bovver debacle. We don't know all of the details behind this story, so I won't post my personal opinion on the matter. But, suffice it to say, what has been exposed does not make GroovyBee show in the best light.

 

Long story, short... GroovyBee appears, from everything that I've read and seen, to be a very talented programmer with a ton of potential. He also seems to have what appears to be a challenge with focus. There are years worth of evidence on this forum to support that statement. I hope that GroovyBee can find a way to both hone his talents, find peace in his personal life to allow him time to do more of what he appears to be so good at.. Also, I hope that he finds the ability to be more empathetic to the people that want so badly to support him.

That's actually a decent summary. Congrats for reading all 73 pages of this rollercoaster ride. You're now an official member of the Intellivision Brotherhood :D

 

Also, welcome!

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Oh no! It's HoverHivecketeerGate all over again!!! :o

 

I'm curious to know, what precisely were you expecting to achieve with that post? You say you do not want to stir anything, but that's precisely what happens when you make such statements and incite animosity.

 

Great, so you get a few pats on the back from those who agree with you. Congratulations, you win one Internet today. :roll:

 

-dZ.

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I've actually been waiting for your reply. As I read through the various threads there was no bigger Groovy-apologist than you. I can't quite wrap my head around why you decided to take up the torch for him. It's pretty clear that he acted inappropriately if you apply the standard of a "reasonable person". Just as you dont understand my motive for my post (and I stated it pretty clearly... i have an opinion on the topic and what better use of the internet is there than to post one's opinion), i am having trouble understanding yours. Is it that you simply like to take up for someone you feel is being wrongly oppressed even in the face of repeated offenses to people that trusted him with something of value to them... in this case, money? If so, then, once again in my opinion, you're just encouraging and rewarding bad behavior. I honestly dont see how any reasonable person could read through the various threads in this site where GroovyBee is the subject and honestly believe that he isn't in the wrong.

 

Maybe you simply dont like drudgung up old wounds. But to me, a new member, it isn't old. It's all new to me and I have the same right as you or anyone else to express my opinion on a topic that I find interesting.

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i have an opinion on the topic and what better use of the internet is there than to post one's opinion),

 

Great, we now have another one of those... Why stop here at the Rocketeer thread? Go ahead and dig all the other drama threads in the Intellivision forum (God knows there are plenty) and tell the Internet more of your opinion. I'm sure the peanut gallery will be right there with you patting you on the back and egging you on. Isn't that what it's all about?

 

Go on. :roll:

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/873/260/a5b.png

 

-dZ.

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There's no need to take pot shots at me ("another one of those") or anyone that might agree with me ("the peanut gallery") by name-calling. I do find the irony in your attachment comical though. It seems clear that you're not interested in having a reasonable discussion or vetting out another person's perspective so let's just agree to disagree and move on.

 

Btw... in the interest of compartmentalizing our clear differences, your Christmas Carol game is awesome!

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Two quotes from Blaidan:

 

“I'm not trying to stir up any controversy but I have thoughts, like all of you...“

 

Versus:

 

“I honestly dont see how any reasonable person could read through the various threads in this site where GroovyBee is the subject and honestly believe that he isn't in the wrong.”

 

————-

 

You are succeeding at your agenda of stirring it up.

 

By your statement, anyone who is on “the side” of Groovybee is ‘unreasonable’. (“Don’t see how any reasonable person”) And you have judged him to be in the wrong.

 

Blaidan is a sub par troll. The intv forums deserves top notch trolls. Is there not good internet trolls any more????

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A Stealth troll. A type of Internet troll who tries to annoy a message board or chat room as much as possible while staying on the brink of suspension or banning from the site administration. Usual methods include saying, or eluding to, things they know will piss a group of people off but without actually breaking any outright rules rules of the board. A lot of times these people will go out of their way to let it be known.....many, many times, to the people that what they say is "their opinion". Knowing 9 out of 10 ignorant moderators wont moderate any ACTUAL trolls as long as they include the letters "IMO" half a dozen times in their post.

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Two quotes from Blaidan:

 

“I'm not trying to stir up any controversy but I have thoughts, like all of you...“

 

Versus:

 

“I honestly dont see how any reasonable person could read through the various threads in this site where GroovyBee is the subject and honestly believe that he isn't in the wrong.”

 

————-

 

You are succeeding at your agenda of stirring it up.

 

By your statement, anyone who is on “the side” of Groovybee is ‘unreasonable’. (“Don’t see how any reasonable person”) And you have judged him to be in the wrong.

 

Blaidan is a sub par troll. The intv forums deserves top notch trolls. Is there not good internet trolls any more????

 

I'm a troll because I read the threads, formulated an opinion based on the content of the posts therein and posted my opinion on this site? Under that definition wouldn't everyone here be considered a troll? I stated very clearly that I came to the site after rekindling my interest in the Intellivision and started reading everything I could. Upon doing so, I found the repeated appearance of Groovy's name something that interested me so I posted my thoughts on it. Just as everyone else on this site has done and will continue to do in perpetuum. Yes, I believe that Groovy has acted unreasonably and I have a difficult time seeing how his apologists can forgive the behavior that's been exhibited. If posting that opinion makes me a troll in your eyes then so be it. I didn't realize that admission to the club here meant falling in line and being a good little poster whereby everyone agrees with everything ever written. I'll keep that in mind when I decide to express my individuality here going forward.

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A Stealth troll. A type of Internet troll who tries to annoy a message board or chat room as much as possible while staying on the brink of suspension or banning from the site administration. Usual methods include saying, or eluding to, things they know will piss a group of people off but without actually breaking any outright rules rules of the board. A lot of times these people will go out of their way to let it be known.....many, many times, to the people that what they say is "their opinion". Knowing 9 out of 10 ignorant moderators wont moderate any ACTUAL trolls as long as they include the letters "IMO" half a dozen times in their post.

 

Wow, Rev. You can obviously feel free to do with my account what you will. But, it feels kinda sad that someone can't have a discussion about something they have an opinion on without the people that disagree with that opinion immediately going the route of labeling them a troll. That's really something I'd have expected to experience when I was the age where I first started enjoying the Intellivision. Not now as a 49 year old man. I expect to have reasonable discussion whereby everyone is granted the opportunity to express their thoughts and then be able to have dicussion around those thoughts. We all don't need to agree but the discussion can be civil. That's my expectation of people in my age bracket. Perhaps I just expect too much from people in my old age.

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I'm a troll because I read the threads, formulated an opinion based on the content of the posts therein and posted my opinion on this site? Under that definition wouldn't everyone here be considered a troll? I stated very clearly that I came to the site after rekindling my interest in the Intellivision and started reading everything I could. Upon doing so, I found the repeated appearance of Groovy's name something that interested me so I posted my thoughts on it. Just as everyone else on this site has done and will continue to do in perpetuum. Yes, I believe that Groovy has acted unreasonably and I have a difficult time seeing how his apologists can forgive the behavior that's been exhibited. If posting that opinion makes me a troll in your eyes then so be it. I didn't realize that admission to the club here meant falling in line and being a good little poster whereby everyone agrees with everything ever written. I'll keep that in mind when I decide to express my individuality here going forward.

 

Blaidan:

“I'm not trying to stir up any controversy“

 

Try harder......

 

 

 

 

———-

 

I don’t recall apologizing for him.

 

I don’t agree with everything ANYONE says.

 

Who are the apologizers? You read the whole thread. Go ahead and list them by name.

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