Retron 4 (console for snes\nes\genny etc)

[Atariboy]

Sorry, but I'm confident that they're dumping cartridges out of a practical need for their hardware. There's no risk in accurately reproducing patent expired hardware close enough where accessories compatible with the real deal can also work on the clone. Something like the Super Retro Trio which is compatible with at least some multicarts is at zero risk of litigation since the patent protection is expired for the hardware that they're modeling.

 

And I think even direct rom loading capabilities is very unlikely to be an issue and is easily debatable at the very least. Otherwise products like MP3 players would be illegal, some big publisher would've sued AtGames by now, Legacy Engineering wouldn't of wasted their time including the feature on that Atari Flashback portable that never was green-lit for production, etc.

 

It's a convenient way to spin it though for Hyperkin where multicarts are concerned. Sort of reminds me of that now dead Japanese game company that utilized a natural disaster a few years ago to give a positive spin to cancelling a very troubled project at a time when they didn't realize the gig was up and that they didn't have to worry what their customers would think since they were essentially leaving the business anyways.

 

Instead of being honest that they don't work as a byproduct of how their system operates, it leaves folks thinking that Hyperkin's hands were tied here and diminishes the criticism they may of received as people tested their expensive multicarts.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Atariboy

[jferio]

Sorry, but I'm confident that they're dumping cartridges out of a practical need for their hardware. There's no risk in accurately reproducing patent expired hardware close enough where accessories compatible with the real deal can also work on the clone. Something like the Super Retro Trio which is compatible with at least some multicarts is at zero risk of litigation since the patent protection is expired for the hardware that they're modeling.

 

And I think even direct rom loading capabilities is very unlikely to be an issue and is easily debatable at the very least. Otherwise products like MP3 players would be illegal, some big publisher would've sued AtGames by now, Legacy Engineering wouldn't of wasted their time including the feature on that Atari Flashback portable that never was green-lit for production, etc.

 

It's a convenient way to spin it though for Hyperkin where multicarts are concerned. Sort of reminds me of that now dead Japanese game company that utilized a natural disaster a few years ago to give a positive spin to cancelling a very troubled project at a time when they didn't realize the gig was up and that they didn't have to worry what their customers would think since they were essentially leaving the business anyways.

 

Instead of being honest that they don't work as a byproduct of how their system operates, it leaves folks thinking that Hyperkin's hands were tied here and diminishes the criticism they may of received as people tested their expensive multicarts.

 

Yeah, I think you've made up your mind about this. Let me sum up your view: "They don't want multicarts to work because they don't want to be potentially responsible if someone's $130 SD multicart blows up in their system. They're just using 'copyright legality' as a smokescreen."

 

And yes, while loading files onto a device is arguably legal, I can, again, see the whole "How can we completely avoid being sued" having the answer of "don't allow it at all, regardless." If only because making backup copies of your own media isn't quite as cut and dried with games as it is with music, at least as Nintendo implies. The odds of BEING sued are so low as to be nonexistant (easier to go after ROM sites, really), but when asked about avoidance, lawyers don't necessarily think with what we consider a "normal" risk assessment method (read: paranoid).

 

Now, yes, it's definitely a thing where the architecture of the system doesn't allow carts like the Everdrive to work. I don't think that was necessarily as conscious as the ROM file issue, actually, but definitely a result of the way they decided to build the system in the first place.

 

I am keeping something of an eye on things out there, because I'm curious as to when (not if) someone cracks the software open to allow it to be used as a proper ROM dumper and/or run actual ROM files on it. The question will be whether it can eventually be done using a modified form of their software, or if one basically has to load a more basic version of Android and deal with several different interfaces for apps. We probably won't modify ours for a while, though, we have a softmodded Wii for running ROM files.

[Rex Dart]

Has anybody tested any of the SNES Kirby games (Dreamland 3, Super Star) on the new Retron? They were always tricky to emulate at full speed on anything other than a full PC.

[Atariboy]

Yeah, I think you've made up your mind about this. Let me sum up your view: "They don't want multicarts to work because they don't want to be potentially responsible if someone's $130 SD multicart blows up in their system. They're just using 'copyright legality' as a smokescreen."

No, that's not what I said. What I said is that they don't care one way or another about multicarts and made zero design decisions with them in mind one way or another. But because the direction they did go down isn't compatible with how multicarts work, it's easier to spin the reason why in the manner they've done to deflect criticism than to explain the details that unfortunately don't mesh with how our multicarts operate.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Atariboy

[jferio]

Has anybody tested any of the SNES Kirby games (Dreamland 3, Super Star) on the new Retron? They were always tricky to emulate at full speed on anything other than a full PC.

 

We just did here. No noticeable slowdown.

[jferio]

No, that's not what I said. What I said is that they don't care one way or another about multicarts and made zero design decisions with them in mind one way or another. But because the direction they did go down isn't compatible with how multicarts work, it's easier to spin the reason why in the manner they've done to deflect criticism than to explain the details that unfortunately don't mesh with how our multicarts operate.

 

Well, on the other hand, that wasn't why I was arguing about copyright. Copyright is merely the reason they don't want to allow ROM file loading via SD card. SD card in the system's own built in slot. This is the point I thought we were discussing earlier. And regarding that, the ATGames Sega Genesis was mentioned for allowing load from SD. As I recall, that system was actually licensed by Sega as an "official" product, so it does get to follow different rules. The Retron 5 isn't licensed by anybody, so they have to take a much more careful path.

 

Regarding older style multicarts, we've seen that it has trouble with bankswitching schemes if it doesn't know WHAT those schemes are. Newer style multicarts, like the Everdrive, would probably be a lot more difficult, and would certainly relate to how isolated the loading system is. And shall I assume that your beef is specific to design decisions that specifically affect the Everdrive?

[elbarto1]

Kirby superstar does not work on my unit.

[jferio]

Also, we did something a little crazy, just to test it. We plugged a Famicom adapter into the NES slot, a Famicom game into that, and let it rip. It played the cart just fine, complete with recognizing it. But it did display that the NES part was active.

 

Not really surprised it worked, but always worth trying out.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Kirby superstar does not work on my unit.

What a coincidence. KSS runs fine on my Super Retro Trio.

[goldenegg]

What a coincidence. KSS runs fine on my Super Retro Trio.

 

What up with the constant trolling? I'm starting to understand why people on other forums have been upset with you.

[elbarto1]

I got a new black R5 today, oddly enough Kirby Super Star works on this one.

 

Both consoles had the newest 1.31 firmware.

 

???

[Atariboy]

I got a new black R5 today, oddly enough Kirby Super Star works on this one.

 

Both consoles had the newest 1.31 firmware.

 

???

How hard did you try to get it going? It might've not been making good contact the first time. That's the only thing that makes sense that I can think of given identical software.

[elbarto1]

I tried 3 times. Unknown cart every time. Wouldn't load.

 

I'm sure you're right but it's strange.

Other users report working/non working as well on other forums.

[jferio]

We were fine on the first try here with the Kirby games.

 

And yes, we've had some carts take 2-3 inserts to actually "read" correctly. No, we don't blow on them between insertions, that's generally not a good idea anyway.

 

Regarding "UNKNOWN CART" and still being playable, I suspect it's just dirty carts not being read 100% correctly. One can probably wind up with minor single-bit errors in non-vital areas, enough to throw off the identification via checksum, but not enough to fatally break the game.

 

We did see some black Retrons in the wild today when we were out trading some DVDs for other stuff. Mild temptation to buy one at $140 and "flip" it online for $240, but we came to our senses pretty quickly.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

We did see some black Retrons in the wild today when we were out trading some DVDs for other stuff. Mild temptation to buy one at $140 and "flip" it online for $240, but we came to our senses pretty quickly.

Kudos to you. There's enough scalpers out there already.

[cimerians]

Ok I just realized some genny games are a bit stiff removing on my machine. (All of my other slots are perfect)

 

My solution:

Hold slightly down on the left side of the console with your left hand then pull the game out from the left side up first. Don't pull the game out from the middle. They eject real easy that way for me. Also clean your carts. Especially if you bought a stash from a fleamarket and they have just been sittting in your collection.

[dashv]

http://www.amazon.com/Deoxit-connector-cleaner-enhancer-protector/dp/B00J1KU5PU/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1403423023&sr=8-16&keywords=deoxit

 

Best way to clean, lubricate, and restore your cart pins.

 

I brought a pretty iffy copy of Renegade (nes) back from the dead with it:

Edited June 22, 2014 by dashv

[elbarto1]

Another good review, although the reviewers didn't care for it because they're purists. I agree, but I own (most of) the real consoles already.

 

Game Sack - The Hyperkin Retron 5:

[Kulp]

I love my RetroN 5.
no real issues other than a few incompatibility issues... and talking with the Retron Tech guy on facebook has proved to be very successful, he's fixed several issues I've had already and he's currently working on the rest of them for future updates.
(btw the next update fixes sonic& knuckles with sonic 2 & any other game as well, makes master system controllers usable and fixes mostly all the issues with the cheat codes. among a few other small things)

[dashv]

Another good review, although the reviewers didn't care for it because they're purists. I agree, but I own (most of) the real consoles already.

Game Sack - The Hyperkin Retron 5:

They presented the review very well. But the compatibility information is now very out of date.

 

In fact once the current private release goes public a majority of their incompatibility information is going to be invalid.

 

It doesn't really make sense to cite specific titles in a video since the firmware is constantly being improved. In the video description or a google doc seems the most flexible way.

 

I also don't buy that they are purists. They say they are, but then they state the reason they won't buy one is because it doesn't support flash carts or play ROMs.

 

All flash carts do some form of special chip emulation on their fpgas. So many roms played off a flash cart I would say aren't really pure.

 

I own all the real consoles hooked into a CRT and play from the real carts. That's pure. It is a different experience than the Retron 5 (which I also own hooked into a 55inch LED tv). But each has it's place.

 

One is exactly how I played it as a kid.

 

The other is how I can play it now after decades of progress.

 

Funny thing is, I never realized I am part purist until just now.

Edited June 23, 2014 by dashv

[elbarto1]

Well said dashv.

 

I think anyone that still owns carts and original hardware is part purist.

 

The R5 falls into a weird dimension x hybrid of purist and modern which I find great but I can see why someone wouldn't be interested.

 

I really wish the R5 had ROM support because there are a lot of games I either can't find, can't afford or just want to try out. But I'm sure the console will eventually be opened up to ROMs by someone more skilled than I.

 

In other news, I had another (yearly) regret from selling my copy of earthbound about 7 years ago.

 

Back then prices were less (around $80-100) and I figured, "I'll just play the ROM". Every so often I remember that ignorant move and wish I kept it. Still going for $160+ on eBay.

 

Saw a big boxed copy at a local retailer last week. Damn I want that game back in my collection.

[Atariboy]

That it does FM sound on SMS games just might make me reconsider something like the Power Base Converter and picking up a few cartridges.

 

I've been very happy with my Master System paired with an Everdrive (For SG-1000 games, otherwise a Genesis multicart that can handle SMS games would suffice for me) and don't own a single SMS cartridge or card. So I never thought I'd end up putting that feature to use on the Retron 5.

 

All flash carts do some form of special chip emulation on their fpgas. So many roms played off a flash cart I would say aren't really pure.

Most games that can be run off a flash cart were nothing more than a rom chip and are 100% unchanged. I suppose something could be off on something like one of the enhancement chips for the SuperNes that the SD2SNES simulates, but I've never noticed a difference.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Atariboy

[Andromeda Stardust]

Well said dashv.

 

I think anyone that still owns carts and original hardware is part purist.

 

The R5 falls into a weird dimension x hybrid of purist and modern which I find great but I can see why someone wouldn't be interested.

 

I really wish the R5 had ROM support because there are a lot of games I either can't find, can't afford or just want to try out. But I'm sure the console will eventually be opened up to ROMs by someone more skilled than I.

 

In other news, I had another (yearly) regret from selling my copy of earthbound about 7 years ago.

 

Back then prices were less (around $80-100) and I figured, "I'll just play the ROM". Every so often I remember that ignorant move and wish I kept it. Still going for $160+ on eBay.

 

Saw a big boxed copy at a local retailer last week. Damn I want that game back in my collection.

Yes, but if the R5 had built in backdoor ROM loading via SD, Nintendo would come and try to shut them down. Ditto for backing up dumped carts, which is why the copy exists only in RAM and is deleted when the cart is pulled.

[dashv]

Well said dashv.

I think anyone that still owns carts and original hardware is part purist.

The R5 falls into a weird dimension x hybrid of purist and modern which I find great but I can see why someone wouldn't be interested.

I really wish the R5 had ROM support because there are a lot of games I either can't find, can't afford or just want to try out. But I'm sure the console will eventually be opened up to ROMs by someone more skilled than I.

In other news, I had another (yearly) regret from selling my copy of earthbound about 7 years ago.

Back then prices were less (around $80-100) and I figured, "I'll just play the ROM". Every so often I remember that ignorant move and wish I kept it. Still going for $160+ on eBay.

Saw a big boxed copy at a local retailer last week. Damn I want that game back in my collection.

Thought my wife was going to kill me when I came home with a 186lb 36 inch crt I picked up at a thrift store a few weeks ago.

 

Here first words were "what the heck?"

 

My reply was "Duck Hunt."

 

To which she responded "ahhhh. Just please not in the living room"

 

What a wife.

 

To me part of the magic is seeing my son look at the cover art on a cart or read through the manual to Super Mario Bros. The same copy I got for Christmas when I was a kid. Or to see him pick up the light gun and ask like I did "how the heck does it work!?"

 

For me part of that magic is lost when it's just loading up files off an SD card.

 

It might surprise folks that I do have an SD2SNES and a Mega EverDrive but i use them mainly for the reasons you mentioned. Playing games I can't buy on a cart, dabbling with others homebrew, and playing my own (horrible) creations.

Edited June 24, 2014 by dashv

[Rex Dart]

Yes, but if the R5 had built in backdoor ROM loading via SD, Nintendo would come and try to shut them down.

 

On what grounds? How would it be different than an AtGames Firecore or a Dingoo? I think the days are gone where you could shut down an emulator just for being an emulator.

The loading of random ROM dumps probably just isn't in their plan for the device.

 

As somebody who owns the consoles, carts, proper TV, ROMs of questionable origin & who is in no way part of the target market of this thing, it's kinda fun to sit back and watch their attempt at bringing XBOX One-style phone-home always-on methods to something as old as NES carts . It's bizarre! And to think people laughed at the n-gage.