Retron 4 (console for snes\nes\genny etc)

[+Gemintronic]

They are on the same legal grounds as Connectix Virtual Game Station. Meaning Nintendo/Sega can still sue them to the ground even if their product is legal. It's not about who wins. It's about how long you can afford the litigation.

[Rex Dart]

They are on the same legal grounds as Connectix Virtual Game Station.

 

Yup, that's what I was referring to. That was fifteen years ago. I don't think it could happen again.

[Flojomojo]

 

Yup, that's what I was referring to. That was fifteen years ago. I don't think it could happen again.

 

They are on the same legal grounds as Connectix Virtual Game Station. Meaning Nintendo/Sega can still sue them to the ground even if their product is legal. It's not about who wins. It's about how long you can afford the litigation.

 

 

 

Yup, that's what I was referring to. That was fifteen years ago. I don't think it could happen again.

It has happened before, and will happen again. If moribund Atari can go after little old Vector Tanks for misuse of their trademarks, Hyperkin is far from immune. See also SLAPP for examples from all different kinds of places. Nintendo has clearly thought about this issues and has legal muscle.

[Rex Dart]

It has happened before, and will happen again. If moribund Atari can go after little old Vector Tanks for misuse of their trademarks, Hyperkin is far from immune. See also SLAPP for examples from all different kinds of places. Nintendo has clearly thought about this issues and has legal muscle.

 

Vector Tanks is a different issue entirely.

 

If you read that Nintendo link, you'll see that they already view your Retron as an illegal game-copying device, and opening it up to play random ROM dumps doesn't change that very much.

[Bill Loguidice]

I don't know what the actual debate is here. Since this product was expressly designed to run original cartridges and utilize original controllers, they have no particular incentive to support ROM dumping/loading, particularly since there's no good argument that it would only be used for playing legal homebrews. It's just not worth the potential hassle of possibly being categorized as a pirating device and getting the company in some type of legal trouble. I mean, we're all adults here. We know how this would get used if it had said functionality. Other products work differently and/or are from companies that either officially license what they need to (meaning the licensors, like Sega, are fine with the concept) or are small enough of a company or located in a region remote enough where there's not as much concern for legal ramifications.

Whether Hyperkin's approach of dumping a cart's contents to memory and running it through emulation is better or worse than trying to replicate the functionality of the original hardware is up to the individual, but, in the end, that's the approach they went with. I think you either want this as a more modern way to play your cartridge collection or you simply use the umpteen other ways to get the exact results you're after. You don't have to agree with or support Hyperkin's approach, but once we realized what they brought to market, the debate pretty much boils down to individual preference at this point. They clearly thought long and hard about what they wanted to bring to market, and, even though it's disappointing to those of us with flash carts or who would prefer to use ROMs on such a handy all-in-one device, the fact of the matter is it doesn't and won't. It's ultimately not that big of a deal.

If you really think about it, it's amazing how jaded and demanding our community is at times. Some people feel entitled or demanding without understanding the realities (business, logistical, financial, etc.) of a situation. Whether it's threatening a MAME developer for not emulating their favorite game properly, hating on a $40 TV games console with 85 games for not perfectly replicating some of the games in its collection, or criticizing a device like the RetroN 5 that we would have killed for just 10 years ago, it's no surprise our community is not listened to more and instead the less discriminating masses are targeted. It seems there's no pleasing the vocal minority. Of course, it's fine to be critical of something, but there reaches a point where the criticism loses all perspective.

[+Gemintronic]

 

If you really think about it, it's amazing how jaded and demanding our community is at times. Some people feel entitled or demanding without understanding the realities..

 

 

Through your posts I see words like "screaming", "entitlement", "jaded" and "demanding" regarding classic gaming enthusiasts. This is our money and our needs.

[Flojomojo]

 

Through your posts I see words like "screaming", "entitlement", "jaded" and "demanding" regarding classic gaming enthusiasts. This is our money and our needs.

Let me add these words from your post!

 

"money" (because individually, we aren't contributing that much, even the big spenders) and

"needs" (do I need to say it?)

 

Everything's amazing, but no one's happy! My main beef is how we have the technical means to make a kick-ass do-it-all system (either with cartridges or flash memory), but copyright and lawyering have to ruin it. Why are video game copyrights so long?

[Bill Loguidice]

My point is, has anything really ever been perfect, meeting every need? We all have our personal wish lists, but there's a little thing called reality, which is always about trade-offs. Some people like to ignore that reality, which is really not healthy for our community. Negativity over the littlest things is not helpful to moving things forward and getting more of the stuff we want. I'd rather we as a community focused on real issues and real problems that do need to be fixed rather than things that amount to personal wishlists. That's just my opinion, though. I've been accused of being too much of an optimist, and I certainly know that my desire is in no way realistic versus human nature.

[+Gemintronic]

I see having a healthy discussion of our collective needs as a good thing. The labels you used for classic gaming enthusiasts might not be fair. Being negative and taking umbrage are part of an informed discussion. I cannot say that optimism alone leads to better products.

[dashv]

They are on the same legal grounds as Connectix Virtual Game Station. Meaning Nintendo/Sega can still sue them to the ground even if their product is legal. It's not about who wins. It's about how long you can afford the litigation.

 

Nailed it. Golden rule.

[dashv]

I see having a healthy discussion of our collective needs as a good thing. The labels you used for classic gaming enthusiasts might not be fair. Being negative and taking umbrage are part of an informed discussion. I cannot say that optimism alone leads to better products.

I have to agree and Hyperkin is listening to the negative feedback when it's provided in a constructive actionable way.

 

There have been 3 updates so far directly addressing problems I mentioned in my early reviews and carts I listed in the compatibility list as having problems were fixed in short order.

 

It's even at the point where I occasionally get preview builds so I can help them verify certain things prior to release.

 

That wouldn't happen if I wasn't part purist - part enthusiast and just sat quiet with my mouth shut or just said "gosh it's wonderful the way it is." This is what theloon is saying.

 

Bill I think what you are saying is quite similar. Bitching for the sake of bitching helps no one. But raising issues and arguments with an eye toward reaching solutions can be very helpful. I agree with this also.

 

I only get irked when a discussion degrades into factless fear mongering, personal attacks, or trolling in an unrecoverable way.

 

I've actually enjoyed the hell out of this discussion and appreciated the the diverse perspectives. I have strong opinions and I often state them unapologetically. But I am always open to reality or other folks perspectives being different. To each their own as they say.

Edited June 24, 2014 by dashv

[cimerians]

Yep and from reading all these threads I don't think we will ever get exactly what we want but the reason I picked this machine is because it does what I mainly want (Savestates and HDMI). Also a way to fire up a game and play immediately. Emulators on PC/XBox/Wii are wonderful but having to boot those up navigate to where you want to go, look for appropriate joysticks etc was getting somewhat tiresome. With the Retron (or Trio) your turn it on and BAM your up and running.

[dashv]

Yep and from reading all these threads I don't think we will ever get exactly what we want but the reason I picked this machine is because it does what I mainly want (Savestates and HDMI). Also a way to fire up a game and play immediately. Emulators on PC/XBox/Wii are wonderful but having to boot those up navigate to where you want to go, look for appropriate joysticks etc was getting somewhat tiresome. With the Retron (or Trio) your turn it on and BAM your up and running.

Yeah, flashcarts (at least as they are currently designed) may never be supported.

 

Incompatible games though, very likely to be fixed. Incompatible peripherals, also likely to be fixed.

 

For example. Your Sega Master System controllers WILL work in the next public build.

 

That shocked the hell out of me. The completionist in me said I had to test it and report. I never expected they'd take the time to actually implement it.

 

In my mind it's easily the best clone system currently available.

[godslabrat]

Just want to say, I've pretty much ruled out getting this system, for reasons that are my own, but I like following this thread because I do think it brings neat issues to the surface. :-)

[elbarto1]

Heads up. Black units available on Amazon (via goHastings) for MSRP $140.

[elbarto1]

Edit: they're not MSRP. They're selling em for $149.99. Oops. Still better than most resellers prices though.

[jferio]

For the record, as of Sunday, to my knowledge the Broomfield, CO 2nd & Charles location had "more than 3" Retron 5 units. No specifics on count, but my friend Mike got himself a unit there. When we went Saturday, the Aurora, CO location had 3 units on hand.

 

And yeah, elbart, we were looking online, definitely scalper pricing going on. $200-250 easy on parts of Amazon and eBay. I agree with my friends on TG256, not really worth that sort of money.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Off topic but someone mentioned Go Hastings selling Retron5s. For $149 it may still be worth it, especially if there's no tax. Check their website; it may be cheaper there than through Amazon. I have a Go Hastings card. Awesome book store. Games, movies, books, music, comics... They sell vinyl records too. I wish they'd open one in my city as the nearest location is 70 miles away. Probably too much competition from Barnes & Noble, FYE, Best Buy, Game Stop, you name it here in Shreveport. FYE and Best Buy have a paltry music selection in comparison though.

[goldenegg]

The new firmware update is available. Looks like they're pretty serious about trying to get NES repros working.

 

 

 

Changes in this release include:

• Added system for auto-detecting configuration of NES carts for certain mappers (0-4), which will significantly improve compatibility with various repros
• Cheat system completely re-done
• Improved SNES cartridge detection logic (resolving HiROM/LoROM related errors)
• Better handling of Genesis cartridge saves
• SMS compatibility fixes
• Fixed a bug affecting a few NES CNROM cartridges
• Sonic & Knuckles "lock-on" fully supported
• Added support for NES mappers 40, 82, 225, 232
• Added support for SMS controllers
• Added support for save access on NES MMC6 cartridges (Startropics)
• Fixed NES "Top Gun"
• Fixed GBA Dragon Ball Z games
• Modified the default button mapping between the wireless controller and GB/GBA/NES to match the layout of the original controllers
• Fixed bug preventing console region setting working correctly with some games

 

[dashv]

The new firmware update is available. Looks like they're pretty serious about trying to get NES repros working.

 

So glad they released this.

 

It's a game changer!

 

They increased compatibility a full percentage point!

[Bill Loguidice]

I have to give them credit for releasing so many updates. I didn't expect such an aggressive update schedule. Now I just need them to ship the unit I got as part of a Kickstarter bundle last year and I'm all set.

[jferio]

OK, applied the update. Super Street Righter II for the Genesis now works. It is finicky, two attempts, the first didn't load, the second did, so it's certainly not perfect, but it's also a good sign when I can set off Chun-Li's fireball without too much hassle. Yes, I'm going into training for Street Fighter, so learning the special moves, and how to execute them consistently, is a big part of that.

 

Also, verified that Sonic 2 with Knuckles the Echinda works.

 

I did download the latest cheat database, but in Sonic 1, and SSFII, the cheats caused it to fail with an orange screen. Haven't tested it with anything else.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Off topic but someone mentioned Go Hastings selling Retron5s. For $149 it may still be worth it, especially if there's no tax. Check their website; it may be cheaper there than through Amazon. I have a Go Hastings card. Awesome book store. Games, movies, books, music, comics... They sell vinyl records too. I wish they'd open one in my city as the nearest location is 70 miles away. Probably too much competition from Barnes & Noble, FYE, Best Buy, Game Stop, you name it here in Shreveport. FYE and Best Buy have a paltry music selection in comparison though.

Damn, dude. I had no intention to buy the Retron5 at the time. Go Hastings sent me an email notification that I had items in my cart and forgot to check out. I clicked the link and my cart total was up: the list price jumped to $179.99! I emptied my cart and clicked the Retron5 item and it said "Out of Stock".

 

So apparently Go Hastings was slowly raising the prices due to the low stock. Not sure how I feel about that one.

[Bill Loguidice]

We've only played NES stuff so far, but we're blown away by the quality of both the video and sound over HDMI. It really is perfect. The controller it comes with does suck, but it's not really a major deal since the three major original controllers plug into it. It was a little tough inserting some cartridges, but removal so far has been smooth. I look forward to testing out the other systems it works with once we tire of the NES stuff.

 

By the way, the update process is definitely clunky, but I had no issue doing it.

[AtariLeaf]

I may get one but (1)The price has to come down. New R5's are hovering around $199 Cdn in my neck of the woods. (2) From what I hear, the vaus controller for nes arkanoid doesn't work and being a huge arkanoid fan on the nes, this is a must fix for me to be interested.