Retron 4 (console for snes\nes\genny etc)

[+Gemintronic]

I pre-ordered this from StoneAge Gamer. Nothing bad to say about them. I've order several products over the years and not one complaint about shipping times or quality.

 

That being said, Hyperkin is not impressing me. The Retron 5 is not a hobbyist project like the XM or SGM. Small company or not there are different expectations and these delays are not meeting them.

[Reaperman]

Sounds like they're saying April now.

 

$100 seems pricey, also HDMI-only--sorry projector users, will have deal with that. Pretty much says that there's a cheap single chip system with built in video driving all this as those are about the only devices I've heard of rolling without external analog audio. I really worry about controller latency, which never seems to be an issue with the 8/16-bit custom chips.

 

From what I gather (from this forum) there is actually a market for this, but it still seems like this combination of software/hardware is the worst of all possible worlds to me. Still, there's a helluva lot better chance of me buying one of these in the next year than, for example, a wii-u. My genesis doesn't scale correctly on my current tv, so I may buy it for that alone.

 

Hey, retron designers. How about selling a simple HD scaler instead of a bunch of software emulation?

Edited February 6, 2014 by Reaperman

[+Gemintronic]

It's an odd niche to be sure. You have to really enjoy emulation but also have a deep loyalty to physical carts

[Falconhood]

meh, you snooze you loose. I'm already loving my latest purchase

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006LG2GK4/ref=ox_ya_os_product

and next purchase, I plan to buy a PSP to hack to get my Atari/Coleco/etc fix

[Reaperman]

It's an odd niche to be sure. You have to really enjoy emulation but also have a deep loyalty to physical carts

Right, where I'm exactly the opposite niche. I strongly dislike software emulation but at times have only a little loyalty to original media (the flashcart niche). I don't think anybody has ever tested the size of this new 'retron niche.'

 

I've only recently come to accept that software emulation has genuine fans. Largely that's because of this device.

I knew a lot of people emulated--I just assumed that if they had the resources (space, money, knowhow, etc) they'd rather 'kick it oldschool.'

It would have to have real fans, because this device requires putting up with a good chunk of the collecting, storing, and cleaning inconveniences of real hardware that emulator users have generally been spared.

 

Some day software emulation will indeed be the way to go. Basically, to get me to switch to it, I'm going to need to see a high-speed camera frame count comparison of input/action vs real hardware. When I see no added latency, I'll be pretty well sold.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Reaperman

[+Gemintronic]

I'm not even middle class but I've accumulated a bunch of games and systems over time. I also really enjoy collecting homebrew and public domain ROMs for emulation. I've got a Kazoo board to rip my NES collection. I've got a Retrode to rip my 2600/SMS/N64/SNES/Genesis/GB games.

 

I'd like one classic system to play them all on with the niceties of emulation such as save states, cheats and additional display modes. I'd also like to stick all my backups and homebrew onto flash carts and keep my collection safe from wear.

 

Trouble is, Hyperkin isn't interested. They're not even using the extra time to figure it out. Use the production delays to address customer suggstions guys.

[Bill Loguidice]

Some of the negative comments about Hyperkin and this product amaze me. You shouldn't have to try that hard to consider that there are some functions/features that are beyond their control for either technical, legal, or license reasons and not always assume it's because the company is trying to do anything untoward or don't know what people might really want. I mean, really, Hyperkin is trying to bring to market a cartridge-based console with modern connectivity that supports more than five different classic platforms. Complaining about what amounts to personal want lists is the retrogaming equivalent of "first world problems." I mean, we'll never get a perfect product that satisfies all of our personal desires, but, in the end, even with the delays, once this gets released and if it does exactly what they've promised, it will be damned remarkable that something like this exists at all.

[+GoldenWheels]

I think people simply need to realize that for most folks, emulation is not a dirty word, if it's even a word to them at all, nor a lesser experience than the true originals, and ease of use with new HDTVs is king. Retron replicates the original experience they want (playing old games and FEELING old fashioned by using the carts) and makes it easy to do so.

Edited February 6, 2014 by GoldenWheels

[+Gemintronic]

Wanting a better product is not an offense. Delays and lack of communication are.

[Bill Loguidice]

Again, do delays really matter if it means delivering on the product promised? It's not like we're out of pre-order money or anything. It just means waiting a little longer. It's not like we're not sitting on a million other ways to play our stuff. That's probably the benefit of a company like a Hyperkin doing it, they didn't have to be a slave to the holiday shopping season and rushing a buggy product out the door. Lack of communication? What more do you want them to say? They've talked about features, they've posted videos, they mentioned April, etc. Now, of course, if the delivered product does not meet expectations, that's a different story, but it seems clear to me Hyperkin knows what is at stake here. They HAVE to deliver what was promised and nothing less.

[+GoldenWheels]

Wanting a better product is not an offense. Delays and lack of communication are.

I'd say you are certainly right but then it becomes....better product for who? The hardcore guys like those of us here with the real systems and the real gear and care about little differences, or the actual target group for this product, which I DON'T think is us?

 

I agree with you though about the delays.

 

And yes, IMO they do matter (speaking to Bill). I understand nothing is as easy as it seems but we are on, what, the third or fourth delay at this point? At a certain point they are certainly hurting themselves as the buzz of an initial announcement should lead to the release....not be dead buzz by the time it actually comes out. Even from a marketing/sales standpoint this has been awful. I would have been a day one orderer on the original date. Once it get's delayed once, it's on the back burner in my mind. I can't be the only one.

[+Gemintronic]

I'm not righteously disappointed, Bill. I guess my wordage came off rather strong.

 

I'm mildly perturbed. I'll eat my bowl of gruel because it was all that I ordered. I'll even let the wait time for my meal pass. I agree that the product is good enough. Good enough to self censor my doubts and complaints? Not so much.

[Bill Loguidice]

Don't get me wrong, if they fail to deliver what they've promised, we should savage them (with Internet words). But if it means constantly delaying the product because something is not quite right, I'd rather cut them the slack. At this point, they've gone to the point of no return, so they have to get it right or it's over for their credibility. Again, that's the assumption I'm personally working under. If they get it right and it's 99%+ compatible with all of those platforms, they've done a great service to the community. No longer will we have to worry about maintaining original hardware, but can still use the things that are either designed to last indefinitely - like the cartridges - or can easily be replicated (controllers).

 

And for the record, technically my money has been held up for quite some time in this. I supported the Super NES cartridge game Kickstarter with included RetroN 5 and will not have either shipped until the latter is ready to go with it. I can wait because I want this to be the one "classic" system to sit beside my Xbox 360, Xbox One, Wii U, PS3, and PS4 on my main TV. I don't want this to be yet another one of these products that immediately drives me back to the dedicated console. I've had enough of that.

[BassGuitari]

It's an odd niche to be sure. You have to really enjoy emulation but also have a deep loyalty to physical carts

Not really. You could just be someone who'd like to have a single console that's compatible with nine platforms (10 if you add a Power Base Converter), and also offers things like HDMI connectivity, upscaling, save states, alternate display modes, controller reprogrammability, and other things, instead of having to hook up four or five or six different consoles with none of that stuff.

 

For me, this thing is a no-brainer. It's actually the first new console I've been excited about since the PlayStation 2.

[Andromeda Stardust]

^^^Not really 9 platforms. SNES is nearly identical to Super Famicom and Genesis is nearly identical to Megadrive. Does cart tabs, lockout chips, and microcode really count for being different systems?

[Bill Loguidice]

$100 seems pricey, also HDMI-only--sorry projector users, will have deal with that. Pretty much says that there's a cheap single chip system with built in video driving all this as those are about the only devices I've heard of rolling without external analog audio. I really worry about controller latency, which never seems to be an issue with the 8/16-bit custom chips.

 

From what I gather (from this forum) there is actually a market for this, but it still seems like this combination of software/hardware is the worst of all possible worlds to me. Still, there's a helluva lot better chance of me buying one of these in the next year than, for example, a wii-u. My genesis doesn't scale correctly on my current tv, so I may buy it for that alone.

 

Hey, retron designers. How about selling a simple HD scaler instead of a bunch of software emulation?

Why would someone with a projector care about an HDMI input? Modern projectors have HDMI in, even the cheap ones. HDMI is the best possible output these days to support the widest range of modern displays. It's also easy to adapt for someone who would inexplicably need it adapted.

 

You're concerned about controller latency? Plug in one of the original wired controllers.

 

And again, who cares HOW they do it if the result is it plays roughly 99% of the cartridges for these platforms with 99% accuracy, plus supports flash carts. I also don't see on what planet a multi-cartridge, multi-controller input console selling for $99 is too much money. For purists, it also doesn't suddenly make the original consoles stop working. Criticisms like these are why the retro community can't have nice things. There are a lot of curmudgeons who like to nitpick. A lot.

[Bill Loguidice]

^^^Not really 9 platforms. SNES is nearly identical to Super Famicom and Genesis is nearly identical to Megadrive. Does cart tabs, lockout chips, and microcode really count for being different systems?

They're clearly not different platforms, but they are different consoles. For the real thing, you'd either need a mod, adapter, or a region-specific console to achieve the same effect. Really, who cares how the number of platforms supported is actually parsed? It'll still be replacing a good number of consoles with legacy connectivity in a single, reasonably compact, modern unit.

[+Gemintronic]

We'll have to see how the bluetooth works. The Retron 3 had infrared which was unusable.

HDMI can be worked around. I've got an HDMI to RCA that runs off of USB power.

[BassGuitari]

^^^Not really 9 platforms. SNES is nearly identical to Super Famicom and Genesis is nearly identical to Megadrive. Does cart tabs, lockout chips, and microcode really count for being different systems?

As far as I'm concerned, yes they do. I can't play Super Famicom games without a Super Famicom. Ditto for Mega Drive, and I'm just not a hardcore enough SNES/Genesis fan to get an import system and get it to work on my NTSC TV or mod my existing consoles to run imports. Whatever word you want to use - platforms, consoles, systems, whatever - this thing can run nine different formats, a few of which are otherwise inaccessible to me.

[+Gemintronic]

As far as I'm concerned, yes they do. I can't play Super Famicom games without a Super Famicom. Ditto for Mega Drive, and I'm just not a hardcore enough SNES/Genesis fan to get an import system and get it to work on my NTSC TV or mod my existing consoles to run imports. Whatever word you want to use - platforms, consoles, systems, whatever - this thing can run nine different formats, a few of which are otherwise inaccessible to me.

 

I'm so not trying to invalidate your points! That being said, most Mega Drive and Super Famicom games can be played on an American system by removing some plastic. Famicom carts are a matter of a cheap adapter. Something to think about while you wait for your unit

[+FujiSkunk]

That being said, most Mega Drive and Super Famicom games can be played on an American system by removing some plastic.

 

Or using a Game Genie.

[Atariboy]

We'll have to see how the bluetooth works. The Retron 3 had infrared which was unusable.

I think everyone except the most optimistic out there are already planning to use their original controllers with this.

 

A nice wireless controller would complete the deal here if they deliver on other fronts, but I don't think anyone is holding their breath. Clone companies are famous for their awful controllers and this strangely shaped thing has to have shaken what little hopes there were before it was finally shown off.

 

If anyone is counting on sitting at their couch in front of a 60" HDTV in their living room, I'd be tracking down extension cables right now if I were you to have ready to go with the Retron 5 when the time comes. Or if you have a coffee table, set it up so you can pull the system out and temporarily set it there when in use so short controller cords aren't an issue (And so you can easily change cartridges).

 

The best hope might be if this can be synced with other non Retron 5 BlueTooth gamepads.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Atariboy

[Andromeda Stardust]

As far as I'm concerned, yes they do. I can't play Super Famicom games without a Super Famicom. Ditto for Mega Drive, and I'm just not a hardcore enough SNES/Genesis fan to get an import system and get it to work on my NTSC TV or mod my existing consoles to run imports. Whatever word you want to use - platforms, consoles, systems, whatever - this thing can run nine different formats, a few of which are otherwise inaccessible to me.

Getting Super Famicom to run on an NTSC SNES is as simple as cutting a piece of plastic on the cart connector. They even use identical lockout chips. Some Megadrive games are region locked; some aren't. Research before you import.

[gorfcadet]

 

Or using a Game Genie.

I thought a Game Genie as import device required codes to make it work- for Sega anyway. Doesn't sound super practical.

 

An xrgb for my classic systems runs around 400.00; the Retron runs about 100.00 which sounds like a terrific deal for a backup system for use in my living room. I love my original hardware and I do have 3 crts for my office, but playing classic hardware I see becoming like getting your hands on a good turntable - too expensive for most folks who just want to play an old Bon Jovi record. With Goodwill axing the crts, most casual collectors or those of us with limited financial resources, playing on readily accessible flatscreens is becoming part of the deal.

I just wish more new tvs supported the native resolutions of the classic systems. My new Toshiba just said resolution not supported when I hooked up my Genesis and Atari. Gave me a sad.

 

IGN just put up a video of a different multisystem that does most of this, but with composite and svid outs only. I wonder how it looks on a modern tv. Svid would be worthless to most of us anymore. Most flatpanels at my local Sears had a shared component/composite jack and multiple hdmis. None had svideo. That really makes me sad.

[Atariboy]

The Super Retro Trio that you're talking about is just the typical NES/SNES/Genesis clone like the Retron 3 from several years ago. Games won't look any better on your HDTV than they would via original hardware.