Atari Cassette

[Dripfree]

Hey guys I wanted to start a discussion on cassettes and see if I can get some help with a few issues. First off im running an 800xl a 1050 and a 410. The 410 does not work cuz it runs the tapes a varying speeds. It's just a bad belt but I havent replaced it yet. I don't have an sio2pc so I had no way of getting games from my pc to my atari. In my car I use a cassette adapter to hook my ipod to my stereo and that got me thinking. If I used that in my 410 the varying speed wont be an issue cuz that tape doesn't actualy get turned. I downloaded "brucelee.cas" and used cas2wav so that I could put it on an old Ipod mini I had laying around. I put my cassette tape adapter into my 410 pluged in my Ipod and was actualy shocked to see the game load! I then went game crazy and downloaded all the best cassete games I could find. While some work many don't. All will start to load but will then either just hang and never get past the load screen or have a load error. I had a lot more luck finding UK cassette files then I did US files. Could it be an NTSC vs PAL issue? Is there sometimes data loss In the conversion process from .cas to .wav (I should specify even though Im using an ipod I am using .wav not .mp3.) I was realy excited, this seemed like an option for transfering games from the internet to my atari. This might sound stupid but my next project was going to be to see if I could transfer data from my 410 and save it to disks on my 1050. Is that even possible? I know Im gona hear that i should just by an sio2pc and im gona some day but Im just too broke now not to mention these experiments are what I realy enjoy about my atari (seeing bruce lee load from my Ipod was more fun for me then playing it). Anyway I'd apreciate any help I can get I'm sure i'm not the first one to try this so I figure somone here has got some answers.

 

Thanks much,

Dripfree.

[Kr0tki]

First, make sure you hold Option while booting - most software requires BASIC being disabled. It could also be an NTSC vs. PAL problem, or a case of a bad CAS file. I suggest you to test your CAS files in an emulator - it will rule out any hardware problems you might have.

 

There is no data loss during CAS->WAV conversion, but I've heard reports about CAS2WAV failing to convert some files correctly. You can test loading of WAV files in the Altirra emulator (once you verify correctnes of the CAS file). There's another tool - my own A8CAS - that should convert to WAV with more success.

Edited March 31, 2013 by Kr0tki

[Marius]

I can confirm that the tool krotki made works better.

 

I have done a lot of conversions some time ago and I must say that it was awesome. I have a few data recorders with still good/ strong belts and I recorded the wav files to new TDK tapes.

 

Unfortunately the newest TDK tape cases are not shut with screws.

With the versions that do use screws I shortened the tape so only one (working!) game is on that tape and due to the shorter tape it is lighter and easier to process for the datarecorder which even will decrease the load errors.

 

With good brand tapes and a good data recorder and perfect recorded WAV (I have rather professional equipment) I almost never have loading errors.

 

But this probably is not your problem ... The only reason I wrote all this is to tell you that what you want is definitely possible with more luck than what you succeeded so far.

[Magic Knight]

I too use A8CAS for the wav conversion, have had little issues so far and recomend this program instead of CAS2WAV

 

Biggest issue is have is that i currently convert from XEX files to CAS before this and the program XEX2CAS although functional dosent always appear to be as efficient.

 

As not every atari game is downloadable on CAS format and XEX is more common, this can be annoying. (let alone trying to get ATR's to CAS)

 

Anyone know of a better xex to cassette convertor?

 

 

Also- like the tape adaptor trick, i picture a $10 mp3 player being used to store dozens of games in wav format and this being used as a primitive alternative to a SIDE cart

[spamh8r]

My brother (who is more of an apple fanboy), found a large collection of Apple ][+ .mp3 files intended for loading via casette. Additionally, they have a very nice app for managing those tape and disk images and recording them to CF for similar hardware to what we have available in terms of digital interfaces. I believe this is the one he referred to: http://ciderpress.sourceforge.net/ although I did not immediately find the .mp3 collection of apps.

[Dripfree]

First, make sure you hold Option while booting - most software requires BASIC being disabled. It could also be an NTSC vs. PAL problem, or a case of a bad CAS file. I suggest you to test your CAS files in an emulator - it will rule out any hardware problems you might have.

 

There is no data loss during CAS->WAV conversion, but I've heard reports about CAS2WAV failing to convert some files correctly. You can test loading of WAV files in the Altirra emulator (once you verify correctnes of the CAS file). There's another tool - my own A8CAS - that should convert to WAV with more success.

I can confirm that the tool krotki made works better.

 

I have done a lot of conversions some time ago and I must say that it was awesome. I have a few data recorders with still good/ strong belts and I recorded the wav files to new TDK tapes.

 

Unfortunately the newest TDK tape cases are not shut with screws.

With the versions that do use screws I shortened the tape so only one (working!) game is on that tape and due to the shorter tape it is lighter and easier to process for the datarecorder which even will decrease the load errors.

 

With good brand tapes and a good data recorder and perfect recorded WAV (I have rather professional equipment) I almost never have loading errors.

 

But this probably is not your problem ... The only reason I wrote all this is to tell you that what you want is definitely possible with more luck than what you succeeded so far.

Hey guys thanks for all the good advice. I have continued my experimenting and I have had better luck using Kr0tki's sofware (now im playing Tapper very nice!) Many programs still do not load it seems to be the longer ones IE Ballblazer, Rescue on fractalus. They seem to fail at different points each time I try, usualy after 8 min into the load. My thought is that these are failing mainly because they are longer therefore the chance for an error is greater. Im guessing that every so often my cassette adapter glitches sending a few bad bits. I must admit over the last few years its spent alot of time on the floor of my car.... Athough it and my 410 have had their heads cleaned I know neither are in tip top shape. I was going to begin experimenting with installing a line in to the SIO of my 800xl.... Unless I get reponses saying that I'm way off it seems that the 410 to SIO is just a primitive audio in for the atari. Then I would be able to just plug my ipod right into the atari and there would be no chance for a glitch between my cassete adapter and my 410. I was wondering also if anyone new of any sites that would have a tune up guide for the 410. A quick google only showed belt replacement and that I can figure out myself. I was hoping there might be a few simple mods that might improve it. At the end of the day what I realy want is to get these programs on a real cassette. Even though I like to experiment I'm also kind of a purest. I like ProWizard's idea of cutting the the tape. That actualy crossed my mind when I was splitting a .wav file that had a collection of about 20 basic programs. Im glad to hear it's actualy been done. Thanks again for all the good advice, love this community!

Dripfree

[Kr0tki]

Many programs still do not load it seems to be the longer ones IE Ballblazer, Rescue on fractalus.

First check the WAVs under emulation, in PAL and NTSC settings, to make sure the files are correct and that it isn't a PAL vs. NTSC issue. (Try each file a few times, for the reason explained below.)

 

My thought is that these are failing mainly because they are longer therefore the chance for an error is greater.

There is that bug in the Atari operating system, that causes tape loading to randomly fail - when reading each data block, one in a few thousand blocks will fail to load. Your problem might be caused by that bug - you simply should try loading the file again, after at most a few times it should load correctly. If not, then there is indeed a problem.

 

Im guessing that every so often my cassette adapter glitches sending a few bad bits.

We could verify that. Can you put the adapter in a cassette player and record its output back to WAV?

 

Unless I get reponses saying that I'm way off it seems that the 410 to SIO is just a primitive audio in for the atari.

WAY OFF! The 410 contains a circuit that converts analog audio signal to digital data; it is then sent to the computer. Yes, it also sends to SIO the raw audio signal from the tape's left track, but it is only mixed with Atari's audio output and not used otherwise.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Kr0tki

[Dripfree]

Well I've continued playing with this. Thanks Kr0tki for letting me know that the 410 does the data conversion before it hits the computer. I'm used too the Ti 99/4a for that I use a regular cassette recorder and the computer plugs into the mic. and speaker jack so I'm pretty sure that does all the data conversion at the computer. I was assuming the atari was doing the same. Anyway I did install a line in to the circuit board of my 410 and that is working.... A least as good as the cassette adapter was. I just didn't trust the adapter cuz I do notice a sound quality loss when I use it for music so I assumed this meant data loss on my atari. But my line in seems to have the same success rate. Dig dug seems to have a near 100% success rate while other games are sketchy and some work at all. All do show a load screen but fails at some point durring the load. I have been using the emulator to verify that the .cas files work but can't figure out how to get the emulator to run .wav files. The .wav always gets a boot error on the emu. I also can't figure out how to get the emu to tell me if its an NTSC or PAL file. Do PAL files sometimes work and sometimes not work on a NTSC 800xl? I was under the assumption that if the file was a PAL I would have a 100% failure rate. Does the atari in anyway sync the data transfer by detecting the speed of the 410? I'm just not sure why some files have about a 50/50 success rate. Any Ideas would be great. I feel like i'm just about to crack this and that my ipod should have at least the same success rate as a real cassette if not better. Perhaps just an eq adjustment could do it.

 

Thanks again,

Dripfree

Edited April 5, 2013 by Dripfree

[Marius]

Not read complete thread but you could try to convert back your WAV to CAS and look whether it works again.

 

Or share your WAV with me... I could test it here....

[Dripfree]

Hey every one I have finally achieved success. Oddly enough the thing that was failing me was the newest piece of tech I was using. It was the Ipod mini that was glitching. I switched to my 5th gen Ipod touch and now its perfect. I wanted to share the line in mod I did to my 410. It works great to load games from my Ipod or my laptop. An unanticipated benefit is that I can also send the audio in press record on my 410 and save the audio to a real cassette. For this to work I have to make My 800 try to load the audio so that it sends the signal to my 410 to turn the motor. However it will not load while recording. I've attached some pics if anyone else wanted to give this a try. It was extremely simple and since I didn't see any instructions on the web I thought I'd make my own. Big thanks to Kr0tki and ProWizard for all your help. I was also hoping someone could send me or direct me to a working NTSC cassette image of Ballblazer and Rescue on Fractalus. I found that my Ballblazer doesn't work for me cuz its PAL and my Rescue on Fractalus is just a bad cas image.

 

 

 

 

Thanks again

Dripfree

Edited April 6, 2013 by Dripfree

[Roydea6]

Is this an 810 or 410..??

 

 

Rescue on Fractalus! (1985)(Activision)(GB).zip

 

I have not found Ball Blazer yet.. Now I got it..

 

Ballblazer.zip

Edited April 6, 2013 by rdea6

[www.atarimania.com]

There is no such thing as a Ballblazer or Rescue on Fractalus! NTSC tape image.

 

--

Atari Frog

http://www.atarimania.com

[Dripfree]

Is this an 810 or 410..??

 

Yea I should have had my coffee before I typed that. It is a 410 I've fixed the post. Thanks for the file!

Edited April 6, 2013 by Dripfree

[Marius]

I am so happy to find out, that I'm not the only one that still loves to load games from datarecorder.

 

I love the lower pitched data sound the Atari creates from the incoming high pitch data noise.

 

IIRC if you only use the right channel (or was it the left), you do not hear that high pitch data noise, but only the lower pitch from the atari. That sounds fabulous.

 

A few weeks ago I was doing some testing with my Synassembler cart, and I wanted to save my source, but I killed 'dos' in the memory, so I could not save it anymore to disk. So I took my data recorder, and saved the source to tape. That took a while... but it was there... then I rebooted the atari, loaded back my source and then I saved it to disk. Whooo. I was very glad that I still had my datarecorder around!

[Magic Knight]

For this to work I have to make My 800 try to load the audio so that it sends the signal to my 410 to turn the motor.

 

In basic type POKE 54018,52 to activate the motor

 

POKE 54018,0 will stop it again

 

 

Richard

[xdslx]

Hey every one I have finally achieved success. Oddly enough the thing that was failing me was the newest piece of tech I was using. It was the Ipod mini that was glitching. I switched to my 5th gen Ipod touch and now its perfect. I wanted to share the line in mod I did to my 410. It works great to load games from my Ipod or my laptop. An unanticipated benefit is that I can also send the audio in press record on my 410 and save the audio to a real cassette. For this to work I have to make My 800 try to load the audio so that it sends the signal to my 410 to turn the motor. However it will not load while recording. I've attached some pics if anyone else wanted to give this a try. It was extremely simple and since I didn't see any instructions on the web I thought I'd make my own. Big thanks to Kr0tki and ProWizard for all your help. I was also hoping someone could send me or direct me to a working NTSC cassette image of Ballblazer and Rescue on Fractalus. I found that my Ballblazer doesn't work for me cuz its PAL and my Rescue on Fractalus is just a bad cas image.

 

 

 

 

Thanks again

Dripfree

I want more detailed information about attaching an ipod to the 410 recorder please ....

[1050]

I want more detailed information about attaching an ipod to the 410 recorder please ....

Post #3 http://atariage.com/...te-drive-issue/

 

I'm not responsible if you wind back up in this thread following links there....

[Dripfree]

It's actually pretty simple. First your going to want to familiarize yourself with Kr0tki's A8cas software. It's fantastic software but if your unfamiliar with operating software from command line it may be a little intimidating. Go get yourself some atari cassette images. These files will have a .cas extension. You then pump the cassette image into Kr0tki's A8cas software and the software will convert it to a .wav file. Now the game is simply an audio file that your Ipod can play. Take that .wav file and put it on your Ipod. You can listen to it just like any other audio file on your Ipod but it's not very pleasing to the ears. That is it on the software end. There is a simple and simpler way to do to hardware part of this. If you don't want to mod your 410 at all just go and get yourself one of those cassette tape adapters that you would use to connect your Ipod to your cars cassette player. You plug it into your Ipod and then stick the tape into your 410. Boot up your atari (while holding option down) press play on your 410 and play the audio file on your Ipod at the same time. Your 410 will listen to the audio that your Ipod is sending it convert that into data and pump it into your atari. That's it. If you want to do the hardware mod I illustrated in the pics the idea is the same as the cassette adapter the mod just cuts out the middle man (the cassette adapter). You got to drill a hole in the case of your 410 and mount a 1/8 inch audio jack in it. The jack has 3 wire connections, right audio, left audio and ground. The head of the 410 also has the same 3 connection. I just soldered the 3 wires from the audio jack to the points on the 410's circuit board where the same 3 wires from the 410's head connect. Put it all together and you got an audio input just like a modern car stereo. You then just plug your Ipod into the audio jack and operate it just like I described with the cassette adapter. That's about it. if you need more specific details on and specific parts feel free to ask.

[Roydea6]

The only tape drives I have are the 1010 model, but I might try this mod with the one that is the most flaky. Damn, but I hate disassembling those 1010 tape machines.

[xdslx]

It's actually pretty simple. First your going to want to familiarize yourself with Kr0tki's A8cas software. It's fantastic software but if your unfamiliar with operating software from command line it may be a little intimidating. Go get yourself some atari cassette images. These files will have a .cas extension. You then pump the cassette image into Kr0tki's A8cas software and the software will convert it to a .wav file. Now the game is simply an audio file that your Ipod can play. Take that .wav file and put it on your Ipod. You can listen to it just like any other audio file on your Ipod but it's not very pleasing to the ears. That is it on the software end. There is a simple and simpler way to do to hardware part of this. If you don't want to mod your 410 at all just go and get yourself one of those cassette tape adapters that you would use to connect your Ipod to your cars cassette player. You plug it into your Ipod and then stick the tape into your 410. Boot up your atari (while holding option down) press play on your 410 and play the audio file on your Ipod at the same time. Your 410 will listen to the audio that your Ipod is sending it convert that into data and pump it into your atari. That's it. If you want to do the hardware mod I illustrated in the pics the idea is the same as the cassette adapter the mod just cuts out the middle man (the cassette adapter). You got to drill a hole in the case of your 410 and mount a 1/8 inch audio jack in it. The jack has 3 wire connections, right audio, left audio and ground. The head of the 410 also has the same 3 connection. I just soldered the 3 wires from the audio jack to the points on the 410's circuit board where the same 3 wires from the 410's head connect. Put it all together and you got an audio input just like a modern car stereo. You then just plug your Ipod into the audio jack and operate it just like I described with the cassette adapter. That's about it. if you need more specific details on and specific parts feel free to ask.

I think the best way to re use your 410 is to place the audio input , so the 410 becomes a kind of hybrid techology

[Dripfree]

I think the best way to re use your 410 is to place the audio input , so the 410 becomes a kind of hybrid techology

 

Thats exactly why I did the input mod. Also It just seemed more elegant then having the cassette adaptor. I like that my 410 can interface with technology that had not even been thought of when it was created..... I also forgot to mention an unexpected outcome of the mod was that If I put a blank tape in my 410 and hit record while my ipod is playing I can record games onto a real tape. I do have to trick the atari into turning the 410's motor. I Used to make the atari try to load the game while recording just to get the motor to turn. Magic Knight informed me of some poke code to control the motor.

 

In basic type POKE 54018,52 to activate the motor

 

POKE 54018,0 will stop it again

[venom4728a]

This is pretty cool. What do you think about adding something like this mounted right into the 410 case?

 

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 270773847526

 

Best Regards

Robert

[Dripfree]

This is pretty cool. What do you think about adding something like this mounted right into the 410 case?

 

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 270773847526

 

Best Regards

Robert

 

That would be totaly doable. When I first started this project I was using my old Ipod mini. It has seen better days. It won't hold a charge and the case looks almost like it's been run over. I originaly wanted to gut my ipod mini, hard wire the power, and mout the guts into my 410. The theory is solid but it turnd out my ipod mini had more problems then I knew. It must have some glitches during playback cuz about 50% of the time games would not load with it. I switched to my ipod touch and now its 100%. So I gave up on the idea of mounting it into the case. I still would like to try it though.

[Magic Knight]

I use the pc and the headphone to tape adapter direct (pc is next to the Atari 800). And use windows media player to load the MP3's (amazing that compression has its uses for the atari like this). The baud rate is still slow and cannot be manipulated to load machine code games as fast as SIOPC or similar but the error rate (so far) is nil.

 

The magnetic field of the adapter is so strong that i dont even have to press play (start the motor) for the cassette deck head to pick up the signal.

[xdslx]

Thats exactly why I did the input mod. Also It just seemed more elegant then having the cassette adaptor. I like that my 410 can interface with technology that had not even been thought of when it was created..... I also forgot to mention an unexpected outcome of the mod was that If I put a blank tape in my 410 and hit record while my ipod is playing I can record games onto a real tape. I do have to trick the atari into turning the 410's motor. I Used to make the atari try to load the game while recording just to get the motor to turn. Magic Knight informed me of some poke code to control the motor.

 

In basic type POKE 54018,52 to activate the motor

 

POKE 54018,0 will stop it again

hello Drip , can this audio input be working both ways ? I mean , can you in a way , csave from the atari and without a casette in 410 , send the audio to audio jack , and save it to laptop as mp3 for example ?