+TheBF Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 I get it now. You are fixing a long standing non-compliance of TI-FORTH versus the Fig-Forth standard. From Fig-Forth Glossary VOCABULARY E,L A defining word used in the form: VOCABULARY cccc to create a vocabulary definition cccc. Subsequent use of cccc will make it the CONTEXT vocabulary which is searched first by INTERPRET. The sequence "cccc DEFINITIONS" will also make cccc the CURRENT vocabulary into which new definitions are placed. In fig-FORTH, cccc will be so chained as to include all definitions of the vocabulary in which cccc is itself defined. All vocabularys ultimately chain to Forth. By convention, vocabulary names are to be declared IMMEDIATE. See VOC-LINK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lee Stewart Posted March 9, 2022 Author Share Posted March 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, TheBF said: By convention, vocabulary names are to be declared IMMEDIATE . See VOC-LINK . I actually got it from the TI Forth glossary, but that obviously came from your reference. While all vocabularies are declared IMMEDIATE , what I do not understand is why VOCABULARY itself is not IMMEDIATE in TI Forth (and fbForth by inheritance). Here is what Derrick and Baker’s FORTH Encyclopedia (figForth with Forth-79 comparisons) comments after presenting their definition of VOCABULARY and their IMMEDIATE declaration following it, “ VOCABULARY is a defining word and therefore must execute during compilation (Sequence 2) so that it can compile other definitions”. Do you think I should make VOCABULARY an immediate definition for fbForth 2.1? ...lee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TheBF Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 26 minutes ago, Lee Stewart said: Do you think I should make VOCABULARY an immediate definition for fbForth 2.1? ...lee Probably, if only to be an accurate version of Fig-Forth. I am looking around for these discussions on the pros and cons and have not found anything. It looks like FORTH79 broke with immediate vocabularies https://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/fth79std/FORTH-79.TXT VOCABULARY 208 A defining word executed in the form: VOCABULARY <name> to create (in the CURRENT vocabulary) a dictionary entry for <name>, which specifies a new ordered list of word definitions. Subsequent execution of <name> will make it the CONTEXT vocabulary. When <name> becomes the CURRENT vocabulary (see DEFINITIONS), new definitions will be created in that list. In lieu of any further specification, new vocabularies 'chain' to FORTH. That is, when a dictionary search through a vocabulary is exhausted, FORTH will be searched. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atrax27407 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 I have your fbFORTH Vn 2.1 up and running on my MAME/HSGPL system. I still have some tweaks to do with it (like my customized menu) but otherwise it seems fine. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lee Stewart Posted March 9, 2022 Author Share Posted March 9, 2022 13 minutes ago, atrax27407 said: I have your fbFORTH Vn 2.1 up and running on my MAME/HSGPL system. I still have some tweaks to do with it (like my customized menu) but otherwise it seems fine. How do you like the auto-repeat at the command line? FYI (I don’t think I documented this yet), if you do not want the auto-repeat, store an odd number at DCT + 16: 901 DCT 16 + ! This initial start-repeat count gets stored in the repeat counter and is decremented by 2, so an odd number there will never reach 0 to repeat. ...lee 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atrax27407 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Auto-repeat works fine and I have the menu ported over. Since I'm using both Vn 2.0:13 and 2.1 in the same system, I renamed the new FBLOCKS to FBLOCKZ (they are on the same disk drive). I'll give it a thorough "shake down" in a day or so. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lee Stewart Posted March 9, 2022 Author Share Posted March 9, 2022 1 hour ago, atrax27407 said: Auto-repeat works fine and I have the menu ported over. Since I'm using both Vn 2.0:13 and 2.1 in the same system, I renamed the new FBLOCKS to FBLOCKZ (they are on the same disk drive). I'll give it a thorough "shake down" in a day or so. I have a lot more changes to make, but certainly, if you find a glitch, I want to know. ...lee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lee Stewart Posted March 13, 2022 Author Share Posted March 13, 2022 I have enough memory in the cartridge to add UDSQRT ( ud -- u ) [see post #1652ff], which I think I will do. My question (asked before) is whether I should now change SPRDIST and SPRDISTXY to return actual distances rather than their squares. One argument in favor of the change is that all distances will be returned correctly rather than limited to 181. After all, on-screen distances can be as high as 220 and the maximum distance (including off-screen sprites) as high as 360. I will likely leave DXY as is, but I am really leaning to changing those other two definitions. Thoughts—especially in light of the fact that I no longer use the square of the distance for COINC or COINCXY ? ...lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willsy Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 Well, define 'distance'! Mean, one could determine the distance (in pixels) by simply subtracting the x and/or y coordinates from each other. Does it really need a dedicated word to do that? Unless I'm missing something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lee Stewart Posted March 13, 2022 Author Share Posted March 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Willsy said: Well, define 'distance'! Mean, one could determine the distance (in pixels) by simply subtracting the x and/or y coordinates from each other. Does it really need a dedicated word to do that? Unless I'm missing something. Distance = √((x1 – x2)2 + (y1 - y2)2). ...lee 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOME AUTOMATION Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 And all this time, I've been using this... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDMike Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 Put the two together and poof, parsec is born 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reciprocating Bill Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 What is entailed in calling the FP routines in ROM directly from assembly code, rather than using XMLLNK? I would expect to have to place the appropriate arguments in FAC and ARG, set a workspace, BL to the start of the routine in ROM, restore the original workspace upon return to my code, then look for my result in FAC. for: BLWP @XMLLNK DATA >0800 (FMUL) I substituted: LWPI CALCWS (workspace reserved for calculations) BL @>0E88 (start of FMUL routine, per TI Intern) LWPI MAINWS (restore original workspace) Doesn't seem to fly. Am I missing something simple? Or just being simple? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 I believe you need to load GPLWS - XMLLNK doesn't keep the BLWP workspace for long. Assuming you have the entry address right, seems like that's all that is needed from looking at the EA and XB XMLLNK...? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOME AUTOMATION Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 (edited) Not sure if this will help... Disassembly of MINIMEMORY's XMLLNK: Spoiler --------------------------------------------- *CONTEXT SWITCH VECTOR* 601C 8020 *WS 60C8 *ENTRY ADDRESS --------------------------------------------- *XMLLNK FROM MINIMEMORY 60C8 C83E mov *R14+,@>83e2 83E2 60CC 02E0 lwpi >83e0 83E0 60D0 C80B mov R11,@>70a8 70A8 60D4 C081 mov R1,R2 60D6 0281 ci R1,>8000 8000 60DA 1B07 jh >60ea 60DC 09C1 srl R1,12 60DE 0A11 sla R1,1 60E0 0A42 sla R2,4 60E2 09B2 srl R2,11 60E4 A0A1 a @>0cfa(R1),R2 0CFA 60E8 C092 mov *R2,R2 60EA 0692 bl *R2 60EC 02E0 lwpi >8020 8020 60F0 C80B mov R11,@>83f6 83F6 60F4 0380 rtwp ----------------------------------------------- The XMLLNK table entry for FMULT seems to be located at >0D2A... 0D1A 0000 data >0000 0D1C 0F54 data >0f54 0D1E 0FB2 data >0fb2 0D20 0FA4 data >0fa4 0D22 0FC2 data >0fc2 0D24 0FCC data >0fcc 0D26 0D80 data >0d80 0D28 0D7C data >0d7c 0D2A 0E88 data >0e88 0D2C 0FF4 data >0ff4 0D2E 0D3A data >0d3a 0D30 0D84 data >0d84 0D32 0D74 data >0d74 0D34 0E8C data >0e8c 0D36 0FF8 data >0ff8 0D38 0D46 data >0d46 This might have the info you seek... Floating point numbers calculations (From: The TI-99/4A Tech Pages) Edited March 15, 2022 by HOME AUTOMATION Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jedimatt42 Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 3 hours ago, Tursi said: I believe you need to load GPLWS - XMLLNK doesn't keep the BLWP workspace for long. Assuming you have the entry address right, seems like that's all that is needed from looking at the EA and XB XMLLNK...? I've had success at least with the float to int routine this way. https://github.com/jedimatt42/fcmd/blob/04f5d2f32f5df70288e39b74cc47c326aadc6309/b2_tifloat.c#L57 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reciprocating Bill Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 BL with >83E0 set up as the WS works fine for addition, subtraction, multiplication and division (I haven't tested anything else). Unfortunately, the actual increase in speed is minimal - on the order of 2% or so. This in a routine using Newton's method to calculate square roots that doesn't do much more than iteratively call FP arithmetic operations. A positive way of saying that is that the relative cost of BWLP @XMLLNK is apparently minimal. (Still, the routine is faster than calling the GPL routine for square root.) What I would really like is access to the Cortex Basic FP routines. On a 16-bit console running an algorithm with a lot of floating point, Cortex Basic (executing out of a FinalGrom) is actually much faster than the console routines called from assembler! Plus it includes equally fast transcendental routines. Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lee Stewart Posted March 15, 2022 Author Share Posted March 15, 2022 14 hours ago, Reciprocating Bill said: What is entailed in calling the FP routines in ROM directly from assembly code, rather than using XMLLNK? I would expect to have to place the appropriate arguments in FAC and ARG, set a workspace, BL to the start of the routine in ROM, restore the original workspace upon return to my code, then look for my result in FAC. for: BLWP @XMLLNK DATA >0800 (FMUL) I substituted: LWPI CALCWS (workspace reserved for calculations) BL @>0E88 (start of FMUL routine, per TI Intern) LWPI MAINWS (restore original workspace) Doesn't seem to fly. Am I missing something simple? Or just being simple? XMLLNK is used to compute the execution address of the desired routine. It figures out whether the address is in a vector table or is a direct address. If from a vector table, it grabs the execution address from the appropriate table and does a BL to it: XMLLNK DATA UTILWS,XMLENT ; Link to ROM routines * * . . . * *== XMLENT -- Link to system XML utilities ============== * XMLENT MOV *R14+,@GPLWS+2 Get argument LWPI GPLWS Select GPL workspace MOV R11,@UTILWS+22 Save GPL return address MOV R1,R2 Make a copy of argument CI R1,>8000 Direct address in ALC? JH XML30 We have the address SRL R1,12 SLA R1,1 SLA R2,4 SRL R2,11 A @XMLTAB(R1),R2 MOV *R2,R2 XML30 BL *R2 LWPI UTILWS Get back to right WS MOV R11,@GPLWS+22 Restore GPL return address RTWP If you already know the execution address, you certainly can perform your own BL—after appropriate setup of FAC, ARG, ..., of course. You need to BL from the GPL workspace (GPLWS = >83E0) after saving the GPLWS R11 before executing the routine and restoring it upon return. For example, FMUL can be executed as follows: MYWS BSS 32 put in available RAM GPLWS EQU >83E0 FAC EQU >834A ARG EQU >835C FPERR EQU FAC+10 SAVRET EQU >3000 change to available RAM GPLRET EQU >3002 change to available RAM FMUL EQU >0E88 console address of FMUL routine * * . . . * *== FMUL -- Console ROM FP Multiply ============== * * Inputs: * FAC: Multiplier * ARG: Multiplicand * Outputs: * FAC: Product * FAC+10: Error (also can check GPL status byte at >837C) * FPMPY LWPI GPLWS select GPL workspace MOV R11,@GPLRET save GPL return address BL @FMUL branch to console FMUL MOV @GPLRET,R11 restore GPL return address LWPI MYWS get back to right WS RT return to caller ...lee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TheBF Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Reciprocating Bill said: BL with >83E0 set up as the WS works fine for addition, subtraction, multiplication and division (I haven't tested anything else). Unfortunately, the actual increase in speed is minimal - on the order of 2% or so. This in a routine using Newton's method to calculate square roots that doesn't do much more than iteratively call FP arithmetic operations. A positive way of saying that is that the relative cost of BWLP @XMLLNK is apparently minimal. (Still, the routine is faster than calling the GPL routine for square root.) What I would really like is access to the Cortex Basic FP routines. On a 16-bit console running an algorithm with a lot of floating point, Cortex Basic (executing out of a FinalGrom) is actually much faster than the console routines called from assembler! Plus it includes equally fast transcendental routines. Sigh. Do we know what format Cortex FP uses? TI-99 is a very big format with decimal coded numbers. 8 bytes long. You can do very "adequate" FP with 16 bit mantissa and 16 bit exponent that could run much faster but of course not as accurate at TI-99's numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reciprocating Bill Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lee Stewart Posted April 5, 2022 Author Share Posted April 5, 2022 On 3/15/2022 at 7:29 PM, Reciprocating Bill said: This is 7 bits less precision than TI’s radix-100 representation and 10100 narrower range of numbers, i.e., the range of numbers is 16-65 < n < 1664 or about 10-80 < n < 1078, whereas the radix-100 range is 100-65 < n < 10064 or 10-130 < n < 10128. ...lee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lee Stewart Posted April 5, 2022 Author Share Posted April 5, 2022 I just realized that the definition for WLITERAL I posted in another thread is inefficient. Instead of : WLITERAL ( --- [] | [addr] ) ( IS: <blank-delimited string>) BL STATE @ IF COMPILE SLIT TOKEN ELSE TOKEN THEN ; IMMEDIATE I should have written it as : WLITERAL ( --- [] | [addr] ) ( IS: <blank-delimited string>) BL STATE @ IF COMPILE SLIT THEN TOKEN ; IMMEDIATE While I am working on fbForth 2.0, I should probably review all of the high-level Forth words in the kernel for similar inefficiencies. ...lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TheBF Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 Dxforth author Ed, is always writing on the evils of ELSE. Not applicable with WLITERAL since you need the TOKEN to execute as well. He mostly uses the word END instead, which combines EXIT ( figForth ;S I think) and THEN . I just tried Ed's END word like this on FbForth and it seems to work. : END COMPILE ;S [COMPILE] THEN ; IMMEDIATE : TEST IF ." TRUE" END ." FALSE" ; The idea being I guess that the most often used choice can run and get out ASAP. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reciprocating Bill Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, Lee Stewart said: This is 7 bits less precision than TI’s radix-100 representation and 10100 narrower range of numbers, i.e., the range of numbers is 16-65 < n < 1664 or about 10-80 < n < 1078, whereas the radix-100 range is 100-65 < n < 10064 or 10-130 < n < 10128. It's speed versus range/precision. Depends on what's important to your application. On the speed side, Cortex BASIC running out of a FinalGrom is 1.5x - 1.8x faster than TI BASIC performing addition, subtraction, multiplication and division (which is slightly faster than Extended BASCI for these operations). SQR(), SIN() and COS() in Cortex BASIC are 3-4x faster than those functions in TI Extended BASIC. The occasion for all this for me was my implementation of a simple star cluster simulation described in a 1986 Scientific American article (Computer Recreations, Jan 1986). I wrote an assembler version that calls the console ROM for floating point arithmetic (and rolled my own SQR routine to avoid calling the slow GPL square root routine), but no matter how I slice it (including bypassing XMLLNK) the simulation runs/calculates much more quickly in Cortex BASIC than in assembly! Not something you see every day. So it would be cool if the Cortex FP routines were accessible for calls from assembly - or from Forth! (One caveat: the above numbers apply to a console with 16-bit memory, which speeds Cortex BASIC, even when running out of a FinalGrom, but doesn't much benefit the TI BASICs.) Edited April 6, 2022 by Reciprocating Bill Word salad 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lee Stewart Posted April 19, 2022 Author Share Posted April 19, 2022 Here is the next alpha of fbForth 2.1 (build #). In addition to the changes in build @, it adds the following: The cursor used by KEY is now the inverse of the character under the cursor. This is most apparent in the 40/80 column editor. Rewrote WLITERAL per discussion somewhere above. Rewrote zero-compare words, 0= , 0< , 0> , for efficiency. fbForth210_9.bin fbForth210_8.bin fbForth210.rpk ...lee 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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