APT Hard Disk Preparation and Utilities

[flashjazzcat]

Now I need a (for instance) why would I ever need to Mount and already mounted partition from the APT portion of my CF card. Example please!

 

No sane person could provide such an example. I can only suggest mounting APT partitions which are not already mounted, or unmounting a partition and then re-mounting it on a different drive number, if for some reason you wanted to change the assignment.

Edited January 25, 2014 by flashjazzcat

[flashjazzcat]

Download pages for Ultimate and Incognito PBI BIOS updates, delivered both as stand-alone XEX installers and ROM images for use with uflash:

 

Ultimate PBI BIOS Update

 

Incognito PBI BIOS Update

 

Note: if you have already updated to PBI BIOS v.0.4 via the stand-alone XEX upgrade tool, or by using the v.0.4 ROMs released in the uflash thread, there's no need to do so again.

 

To follow:

• Updated APT toolkit, including as-yet-unreleased v.4.3 of FDISK, MATR, and various other tools
• SDX 4.46 ROM images for Ultimate, Incognito, IDE Plus, SIDE, SIDE2, MyIDE and MyIDE 2 with FDISK 4.3 on the CAR: device
• Padded PBI ROM images for use with The ROM Generator and Ultimate 1MB ROM Builder
• Anything else I forgot to mention above

[w1k]

wow, nice update

btw, flasjazzcat, is it you?

 

[flashjazzcat]

wow, nice update

btw, flasjazzcat, is it you?

 

 

Recently, yes it is, basically.

[w1k]

oh.. * is that? sorry.. bad language

[flashjazzcat]

oh.. * is that? sorry.. bad language

 

You've lost me, sorry.

[Aking]

Another pretty rough test version, this time of the heavily revised MATR:

 

matr.xex

 

Since this basically duplicates the ATR mounting functionality of the XEX loader (without the ability to load XEX files), I've added some experimental support for dynamic APT partition mounting via the same UI. Once you've chosen the device, next select the desired partition type (FAT or APT), and depending on the selection you'll either get a list of disk images in the FAT or a list of named (and only the named) APT partitions on the disk. You can assign and remove drive numbers at will, boot ATRs, or simply drop back to DOS and work with the ATRs or partitions.

 

Note that several things don't work (APT partition properties and Unmount all drives to name but two), but it shouldn't take long to get the application into an acceptable state. The functionality it provides will probably become slightly deprecated once we get SDX access to FAT32 partitions (since we already have access to FAT16 partitions, I provided a simple demo tool which mounts ATRs with Ultimate/Incognito direct from the command line here), but for now it may prove useful to some.

 

Apologies for the mandatory device selection dialogue at the start: it's unlikely that more than one ATR-capable device would be connected at any one time, and I'll eventually skip the manual device selection if only a single APT device is detected. It proved useful during development, however.

 

 

great work!

 

but we would need a .XEX loader somehow included on matr,

so that we can do anything from atari partitions,

 

this way we still depend on SIDE loader to run executables

from fat 32 area, so the utitlity is not that useful imho

[flashjazzcat]

great work!

Many thanks.

 

but we would need a .XEX loader somehow included on matr,

so that we can do anything from atari partitions,

 

this way we still depend on SIDE loader to run executables

from fat 32 area, so the utitlity is not that useful imho

I suppose it depends what you want to do. When I wrote MATR, I was mounting ATRs a lot from SpartaDOS X, and it was useful to be able to hop into the utility, mount stuff, then boot it or just drop straight back to DOS.

 

Certainly the functionality is more limited that the SIDE loader, and I deliberately didn't want to try and provide yet another tool which does the same job as that one (since writing a tool which does the exact same job as one which already exists and does the job perfectly well is, of course, a complete waste of time. And despite this, it still happens sometimes).

 

MATR is definitely the poor relation in the APT toolkit, though. I'm certainly not motivated to develop it further.

Edited January 27, 2014 by flashjazzcat

[+phoenixdownita]

Download pages for Ultimate and Incognito PBI BIOS updates, delivered both as stand-alone XEX installers and ROM images for use with uflash:

 

Ultimate PBI BIOS Update

 

Incognito PBI BIOS Update

 

Note: if you have already updated to PBI BIOS v.0.4 via the stand-alone XEX upgrade tool, or by using the v.0.4 ROMs released in the uflash thread, there's no need to do so again.

 

To follow:

• Updated APT toolkit, including as-yet-unreleased v.4.3 of FDISK, MATR, and various other tools
• SDX 4.46 ROM images for Ultimate, Incognito, IDE Plus, SIDE, SIDE2, MyIDE and MyIDE 2 with FDISK 4.3 on the CAR: device
• Padded PBI ROM images for use with The ROM Generator and Ultimate 1MB ROM Builder
• Anything else I forgot to mention above

Managed to update my U1MB on XEGS via XEX loaded via "L" over SIDE2 .... that's a mouthful .... anyway it succeeded. I was secretly hoping it would "fix" my other CF card via unexpected/unplanned side effects .... but it didn't, I'll live.

 

Now onto waiting for the full SDX with the nice tooling in the CAR: device.

 

Thanks for the continued development of the tool chain.

[flashjazzcat]

Thanks.

 

Managed to update my U1MB on XEGS via XEX loaded via "L" over SIDE2 .... that's a mouthful .... anyway it succeeded.

That's good to hear. The stand-alone XEX installers require some additional polish in light of work done on the generalized flash tool.

 

I was secretly hoping it would "fix" my other CF card via unexpected/unplanned side effects .... but it didn't, I'll live.

Presumably some hardware compatibility issue. I know this can be troublesome, since decent media isn't always cheap.

 

Now onto waiting for the full SDX with the nice tooling in the CAR: device.

These should be up in a day or so.

 

but we would need a .XEX loader somehow included on matr,

so that we can do anything from atari partitions,

Regarding MATR: there were a couple of points I forgot to mention earlier which might explain why it was written in the first place and why it isn't yet dispensable. Say I have a 65535 sector, quad-density ATR (BIGDISK.ATR) in the FAT partition, and I want to back up an APT partition onto it (say, partition D3:, which is also the boot partition), sector by sector, via HDSC under SpartaDOS X (although we could just as easily use some other DOS and some other sector copying utility), and once done, take this ATR and keep it some place on my PC's hard disk as a backup. Now, using the SIDE loader (assuming Ultimate 1MB), I enter the BIOS with Help+Reset, press "L", cursor down to BIGDISK.ATR, and press space to mount it as "D1:". If I then press "Enter", the computer reboots with SDX deactivated, and attempts to boot from BIGDISK.ATR (which is currently blank). To re-enable SDX, I press Help+Reset again, turn SDX on, then quit. This reboots the machine again, with SDX enabled and the ATR mounted on D1:. However, the boot device has also been changed to D1:, which isn't what we wanted, but it's not a big deal. We can then proceed to use HDSC to copy our APT verbatim to the disk image.

 

Another method is to use the SIDE loader to mount the image on D1:, but instead of pressing Enter, press Help+Reset again, and - ensuring SDX is still enabled - quit the BIOS menu. This will reboot the computer with SDX enabled and the ATR mounted on D1:. The boot device has still been changed to D1:, however.

 

Using MATR to accomplish the same goal, we start MATR at the SDX prompt, select the FAT partition we require, mount BIGDISK.ATR on D1: by pressing enter and choosing "D1:" from the list, then exit to DOS. We then use HDSC to make a verbatim copy of our APT partition.

 

Note that even when using MATR like this, the boot device has been changed to D1:, as will be evidenced by the result of the next "COLD" command. This is in fact a bug in MATR. When an immediate boot of the selected ATR is not required, the boot device should be left as is. However, mounting of BIGDISK.ATR was accomplished without a reboot of the machine.

 

In addition, the most recent version of MATR observes the current mounting table on entry: i.e. if BIGDISK.ATR is already mounted on D1: and you run MATR, the ATR will be shown with "D1:" next to it. The SIDE loader currently clears the mounting table on entry, so drive assignments are immediately lost. While this behaviour makes complete sense when booting a succession of games or applications on D1:, it's not really suitable for the particular task I'm describing here.

 

With regard to running XEX binaries, which MATR obviously does not do, it's imagined that in the scenario described above, one would run applications from the DOS prompt (or menu, depending on the DOS used).

Edited January 28, 2014 by flashjazzcat

[atari8warez]

Now, using the SIDE loader (assuming Ultimate 1MB), I enter the BIOS with Help+Reset, press "L", cursor down to BIGDISK.ATR, and press space to mount it as "D1:".

 

Does SIDE loader only allow mounting to D1: , I am asking this because I am not familiar with the device..

[flashjazzcat]

Does SIDE loader only allow mounting to D1: , I am asking this because I am not familiar with the device..

OK. Pressing space on each of a series of image filenames in the list adds drive IDs starting at D1: and then going up in sequence, i.e. D2:, D3:, etc, regardless of which drive letters the HDD partitions are on. If you subsequently press the space bar again next to the names of any of the now mounted images, the drive ID will be removed. So - you can trick the SIDE loader into mounting an ATR on - say - D2: by pressing space first on some other entry, then next to the desired entry, which will then be assigned D2:. Then, cursor back to the entry with D1: next to it and press space to remove that entry's drive number.

 

So - yeah, kinda.

Edited January 28, 2014 by flashjazzcat

[atari8warez]

OK. Pressing space on each of a series of image filenames in the list adds drive IDs starting at D1: and then going up in sequence, i.e. D2:, D3:, etc, regardless of which drive letters the HDD partitions are on. If you subsequently press the space bar again next to the names of any of the now mounted images, the drive ID will be removed. So - you can trick the SIDE loader into mounting an ATR on - say - D2: by pressing space first on some other entry, then next to the desired entry, which will then be assigned D2:. Then, cursor back to the entry with D1: next to it and press space to remove that entry's drive number.

 

So - yeah, kinda.

 

So in other words there is a way to get around SIDE disabling SDX problem, which effectively makes the use of MATR optional.

Edited January 28, 2014 by atari8warez

[flashjazzcat]

So in other words there is a way to get around SIDE disabling SDX problem, which effectively makes the use of MATR optional.

Use of MATR is entirely optional if you are prepared to employ either of the techniques already described in post 285 for mounting an ATR for purposes other than booting it. The method I described in post 287 pertains only to changing the drive number; it does not have any impact on whether or not the SIDE loader will disable SDX upon reboot. Moreover, if you use the post 287 method to mount an ATR on D2: and then press Enter in the SIDE loader with the selection bar on D2:, the loader will report "Reboot aborted - D1: not mounted". So we can reasonably deduce that an ATR mounted on D1: is a condition of the reboot when performed from the SIDE loader.

 

To reboot to SDX after performing the steps described in post 287, instead of pressing Enter once you have the desired ATR mounted on D2:, press Help+Reset, and then Q to quit. This results in a reboot, but with SDX enabled, and the ATR still mounted on D2:.

 

The fact the SIDE loader disables SDX on reboot (as does MATR) isn't really a problem: it's logical behaviour, since a normal disk boot cannot be performed with SDX active. The only obstacle in terms of the described backup-to-ATR scenario is the perceived obligation to reboot at all when using the SIDE loader.

 

As already said: the purpose of MATR is to perform routine mounting and unmounting of ATRs from DOS without the requirement to reboot the computer. The facility to boot ATRs is also opportunely provided (and in this case, the selected ATR is automatically mounted on D1: and the computer is rebooted with SDX disabled). Its use, however, is not obligatory. Instead, it's hoped (even assumed) that the user will choose the most efficient method for achieving the desired outcome, regardless of any other external influences.

Edited January 28, 2014 by flashjazzcat

[atari8warez]

Moreover, if you use the post 287 method to mount an ATR on D2: and then press Enter in the SIDE loader with the selection bar on D2:, the loader will report "Reboot aborted - D1: not mounted". So we can reasonably deduce that an ATR mounted on D1: is a condition of the reboot when performed from the SIDE loader.

 

To reboot to SDX after performing the steps described in post 287, instead of pressing Enter once you have the desired ATR mounted on D2:, press Help+Reset, and then Q to quit. This results in a reboot, but with SDX enabled, and the ATR still mounted on D2:.

 

OK, would have been nice if SIDE simply checked D1: and if its not mounted just allow the system to boot SDX from the CAR: device, but I know life isn't perfect.

[flashjazzcat]

OK, would have been nice if SIDE simply checked D1: and if its not mounted just allow the system to boot SDX from the CAR: device, but I know life isn't perfect.

Well, perhaps, but this would still require a reboot of the computer, which is completely unnecessary when all one wants to do is (for example) attach an ATR to D2: in the middle of a DOS session, which can be accomplished by a fleeting excursion into a mounting utility which runs from DOS, and exits back to DOS. And the tiny experimental SDX command line utility I provided here suggests yet a third way of conveniently mounting ATR files (in a FAT16 partition) from the DOS prompt, this time without even losing sight of the command processor at all. And yet I'm sure the welcome existence of alternative methods causes Candle not one second of angst, since the purpose of the alternative methods is purely to complement the (already excellent) existing ones.

 

But I will reiterate for what I hope is the final time: users who harbour some desire to use only one tool to the exclusion of all others, for whatever reason, are absolutely welcome to do so. Moreover, any attempt to instigate the pitting of the general worthiness of one tool against another on these pages will not meet with success.

Edited January 28, 2014 by flashjazzcat

[atari8warez]

But I will reiterate for what I hope is the final time: users who harbour some desire to use only one tool to the exclusion of all others, for whatever reason, are absolutely welcome to do so. Moreover, any attempt to instigate the pitting of the general worthiness of one tool against another on these pages will not meet with success.

 

You must stop taking every comment I make as a personal attack (to you or otherwise), I was simply pointing out that the SIDE loader, since it allows mounting of images to drives other than D1:, should have also provided a way to start SDX without making mounting D1: and booting from it mandatory. An I reiterate, "for what I hope is the final time", unfortunately life is not perfect, neither any of us developers, so take this exercise simply as a curiosity satisfied, nothing more, nothing less....

 

P.S: Quote: "users who harbour some desire to use only one tool to the exclusion of all others, for whatever reason......."

Reply: Simplicity comes to mind..

Edited January 28, 2014 by atari8warez

[flashjazzcat]

You must stop taking every comment I make as a personal attack (to you or otherwise), I was simply pointing out that the SIDE loader, since it allows mounting of images to drives other than D1:, should have also provided a way to start SDX without making mounting D1: and booting from it mandatory. An I reiterate, "for what I hope is the final time", unfortunately life is not perfect, neither any of us developers, so take this exercise simply as a curiosity satisfied, nothing more, nothing less....

After all this laborious and time-consuming clarification, you still persist in asserting that the SIDE loader should provide "a way to start SDX without making mounting D1: and booting from it mandatory". Why? Booting ATRs with SDX disabled is one half of the SIDE loader's primary purpose. I'm trying to explain that that's OK just as it is; that this is primarily what the SIDE loader is for. And it's OK because there are other ways to mount ATRs for use from DOS without rebooting the machine.

 

And I'm very sorry, but given your publicly critical attitude towards Candle's endeavours in the past, when the discussion starts meandering towards the functionality of his products, it's understandable that I might be a little guarded. Take that from this little exercise.

 

Now that your curiosity is satisfied, I am delighted to drop the subject.

[atari8warez]

After all this laborious and time-consuming clarification, you still persist in asserting that the SIDE loader should provide "a way to start SDX without making mounting D1: and booting from it mandatory". Why? Booting ATRs with SDX disabled is one half of the SIDE loader's primary purpose. I'm trying to explain that that's OK just as it is; that this is primarily what the SIDE loader is for. And it's OK because there are other ways to mount ATRs for use from DOS without rebooting the machine.

 

And I'm very sorry, but given your publicly critical attitude towards Candle's endeavours in the past, when the discussion starts meandering towards the functionality of his products, it's understandable that I might be a little guarded. Take that from this little exercise.

 

Now that your curiosity is satisfied, I am delighted to drop the subject.

 

First let me state that I wasn't critical with Candle's endeavors in the past, I only had trouble with installing U1MB to my 800XL and some of my questions where taken as criticism by some of you (people with big egos often find difficult to handle criticism and that's not my problem). You always injected yourself into the conversation, without being asked I may add and acted like his attorney and that is really your choice and your problem. I repetead this endlessly and I will say it again, I have nothing against Candle or his endeavors, he makes great hardware and I am now happy with my U1MB in my 600XL, my view of Incognito and VBXE is a personal one and does not reflect the quality of his work, which is at a professional level, so please stop bringing others into an otherwise totally unrelated subject.

 

What I am talking here is the SIDE loader. You ask why SIDE should provide a way to mount an image and let the computer boot from SDX. Let me answer this by asking you a question first:

 

Does a 1050 or 810 force you to boot from itself and stop you from booting into BASIC when there is no disk in it or is turned off? Would it make sense if it forced you to boot from itself? If you can answer yes than there is nothing further i wish to discuss., otherwise SIDE is just another "disk drive emulator hardware" which should act like a, well, disk drive. If it allows you to mount an image to D2: and let you leave D1: empty, it should gracefully drop into SDX rather than dısablıng ıt and gıvıng you an error. That's my opinion and I base mine to an existing Atari standard which successfully worked for decades, where do you base yours?

Edited January 29, 2014 by atari8warez

[Marius]

 

First let me state that I wasn't critical with Candle's endeavors in the past, I only had trouble with installing U1MB to my 800XL and some of my questions where taken as criticism by some of you (people with big egos often find difficult to handle criticism and that's not my problem).

 

Hi a8w,

 

That is not true. You had some criticism, and you were right about that. You stated then that the product candle produced was lacking a good and detailed installing instruction, and you compared that to your own product(s) that come with excellent instructions. I agreed about that, and I think that criticism is a good thing, and I still think that you were right about that part of the complaints.

 

You know I appreciate your work, and a lot of your contributions on this forum.

 

But on the other side… I really think sometimes: please stop the discussion. I don't know how it is possible, but a lot of time there is a overheated discussion on this forum, in someway you are related to it. I don't blame you on that, and I also think some overheat is good from time to time.

 

Fjc has a sharp tongue indeed, and I can imagine that he can hit your 'flame button' from time to time. But… seriously… if you know him a little bit better, and you read the content of his replies, you'll notice that he really knows what he talks about. So I'd say let us concentrate on the content again.

[atari8warez]

 

But on the other side… I really think sometimes: please stop the discussion. I don't know how it is possible, but a lot of time there is a overheated discussion on this forum, in someway you are related to it. I don't blame you on that, and I also think some overheat is good from time to time.

 

Fjc has a sharp tongue indeed, and I can imagine that he can hit your 'flame button' from time to time. But… seriously… if you know him a little bit better, and you read the content of his replies, you'll notice that he really knows what he talks about. So I'd say let us concentrate on the content again.

 

Hi Marius, you are right, sometimes I have to let it go, but I guess this is my weakness, and sometimes I can't let it go (well maybe most of the times )

 

In fact I was really trying to concentrate in SIDE issues not to personal criticism and such. I truly dislike the attitude of bringing old tales into new discussions just to try to get even or win an argument which most of the time has no relation to the subject at hand. Anyway I am just expressing my opinion on a piece of software/hardware combo, and I really don't care who created/wrote it. I can't shape my view depending on who the author/creator is just because they may get offended, I say what I think...

Edited January 29, 2014 by atari8warez

[flashjazzcat]

Well, I can barely believe that yet another reply was added to this increasingly tiresome discourse (presumably fuelled by his latest super-confident response to wood_jl; might have known I'd get some backwash from that), but thanks to ProWizard for his comments in response are in order, since I have no intention of troubling my eyes with the latest post. I hope it stops now, because I'm sick and tired of repeating myself, and that's one of the reasons the "sharp tongue" becomes evident: having to repeat myself time and time again in response to enquiries from the same particular forum member. But it appears nothing works: attempts at a casual, conversational tone soon have to give way to very precise, formal, and unambiguous explanations in response to this respondee, whose every summation of what has gone before contains evidence that the foregoing explanation has been critically misunderstood. Moreover, if this misunderstanding of a given situation (say, the functionality of a given tool and its suitability for a given task, and whether the presence or lack of said functionality constitutes a design flaw) goes unchecked, it's likely that misrepresentations will continue to be blithely perpetuated elsewhere in the spurious guise of knowledgeability.

 

To counter any accusations of paranoia when dealing with the respondee, I can only remark: as ye sow, so shall ye reap. Basically this translates as: If you sign up to an Internet forum and quickly develop a reputation for wandering around from topic to topic, cluttering up threads, and generally f**king with people, and then later wake up one morning and experience some kind of epiphany which compels you send a nice PM to one of the people you previously f**ked with, and to implicitly apologize for said f**king around by depositing five English pounds in the donation box of their website, do not be surprised if this somehow fails to completely wipe the slate clean. Especially when - some considerable time after said epiphany - you turn up - oh, where to start - let's say you turn up in the IDE Plus 2.0 Host Adapter topic and discover what you think is a bug in the only APT partitioning tool available on planet Earth, which was provided for free, and then - after evading any admission of the minor user error which has clearly occurred - patiently listen to the absolutely copious explanations from two separate parties, both with first hand developmental knowledge of the system you're using - and then defiantly demonstrate an absolutely wit-shredding inability to comprehend the subtleties of the situation which have led to the tools (which are not perfect) not quite working in the exact way you think they should. And on top of that, you start to come out with sanctimonious and sarcastic remarks about "solid software" - remarks which clearly point to some deep-seated insecurities and lingering resentment towards past criticisms levelled at your own software "projects" (the only original one of the pair having probably been summarily rendered largely obsolete in recent days).

 

In responding to these kinds of enquiries and complaints, I'm afraid I'm beyond the point of trying to be tactful, and this is simply because these particular enquires and complaints always seem to emanate from the exact same source.

 

And... as I type this, yet another reply has appeared - and no doubt this post will elicit more. I already have him on the ignore list, and my only wish is that he would reciprocate. But still he will post, and others will reply, until the thread eventually becomes such a mess that I'm obliged to ask that it be locked, or even to take extreme measures, such as completely withdrawing the tools being discussed.

 

To avoid such unwelcome outcomes, I'd ask that the forum member in question simply f**k off out of this thread and stay gone.

Edited January 29, 2014 by flashjazzcat

[atari8warez]

.......

 

You haven't answered my real question and just chose to escalate this into another feud, but that's OK to each his own....

 

Oh by the way, I didn't deposit the 5 bucks for an apology, i did it because I was using your FDISK software and wanted to make a small contribution for your efforts, and you said I was the only one who made any contribution at all during the last 6 months. Now you're coming here and using even this to your advantage to gain an upper hand. Well done!.... i refuse to sink this low no matter what.... as I said to each his own....

Edited January 29, 2014 by atari8warez

[+phoenixdownita]

...

attempts at a casual, conversational tone soon have to give way to very precise, formal, and unambiguous explanations in response to this respondee, whose every summation of what has gone before contains evidence that the foregoing explanation has been critically misunderstood. Moreover, if this misunderstanding of a given situation (say, the functionality of a given tool and its suitability for a given task, and whether the presence or lack of said functionality constitutes a design flaw) goes unchecked, it's likely that misrepresentations will continue to be blithely perpetuated elsewhere in the spurious guise of knowledgeability.

....

Aside from the issues and based on the quoted pass alone I have to say you have an uncommon ability for extraordinary prose.

It's very rare to see such property of language and richness of vernacular even more so among developer and retrogames fan.

 

Except from prose/poetry authors generally speaking the English language, be as it may "simple" and direct it's rarely put to fruition which such complexity, or at least it is among the circle of my acquaintances.

 

Not knowing any better I'd think you've got german or latin blood, both ancestries with languages capable of complexity and generous use of hypotaxis.

 

Once more aside from the issue tackled, I admit I enjoy reading your posts just for the use of the language alone.

Have you ever thought to program one of those text based adventures of old and use such uncommon skill?

 

For a moment, no offense meant, your posts reminded me of the dialogues between Burt Schlubb and Douglas Klump of "Sin City" origin written by the great Frank Miller.

Hats off to you, sir.

[Marius]

@phoenixdownita

 

Lol! You are right! As a non native English speaker I can follow most contributions here on Atariage. But as soon fjc starts to write in his colorful English I have to use google translate. I try to improve my English from the European C1 level to C2 which will be a real challenge.

 

Only problem; google translates fjc's posts in some kind of ancient Dutch, which I also can't understand without an expensive Dutch lexicon haha!

 

Cool response in this overheated debate Phoenix!