abraXXious Posted October 21, 2017 Author Share Posted October 21, 2017 An old one.... Would someone expect POKEY doing that sounds? ?! That sounds terrible! Scratchy, indistinct "instruments", just..... a mess. Surely this is not considered the best Pokey can do? Compare this to just the Ghouls and Ghosts soundtrack on the SID - HUUUUUUUUUGE difference, and thats just a typical SID tune - no extra CPU processing etc requires, it simply runs in the background of the game. There were two main revision of the SID, which are pretty much the same chip except for the later being designed to run on 9 volts instead of 12 and fixing a "bug" in the volume cut out of the SID.... which had the side effect of dramatically reducing the volume for sampled effects as this bug was used to oscillate the volume registers and play samples. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 ?! That sounds terrible! Scratchy, indistinct "instruments", just..... a mess. . I posted this one just to show how different POKEY can sound. And, well it's not a mess, it's a different type of sound, even if you don't like it Btw: My "POKEY stuff" uses one POKEY and no special "CPU sucking routines" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 The last ones have been mainly converted to POKEY by Fragmare , I gave them a little more "originality" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 OK. A last one ... It should be in this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 (edited) There's tons of great POKEY music. Just dig into the SAP archive and keep your eyes and ears on the files that are posted after the meetings held in Poland. I'm not gonna post any big list here, but here are a few favorites of mine in SAP format by composer X-Ray. These two are in stereo. Swift_Ray.zip Synthy_Gambol.zip These two aren't in stereo, but they're supposed to be. They're from a couple of demos where they are both in stereo. I'm not sure why they were released in mono, although it's good to hear them in that form too. You can check out the demo Numen to hear "Boremloza" in stereo and the demo Total Daze to hear "Typewriter" in stereo. Typewriter.zip Boremloza.zip Use the latest version of ASAP or the ASAP plugin for best (most accurate) sound. Edited October 21, 2017 by MrFish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 How about a tune with a lot of different waveforms, including sawtooth and triangle? It's a hard fight using the emulation , but there is some Not to forget the controlled modulations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+StaxX28 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 2 POKEYs using all CPU. It sound good, even without substance, but the tune is clear... How about a version, running on a stock Atari with the possibility of using it in a game ? maybe doable by mixing a sound with the drums, but it's really boring to do for me That's one of the reasons I prefer 8 tracks tunes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abraXXious Posted October 21, 2017 Author Share Posted October 21, 2017 (edited) I posted this one just to show how different POKEY can sound. And, well it's not a mess, it's a different type of sound, even if you don't like it Btw: My "POKEY stuff" uses one POKEY and no special "CPU sucking routines" Well this sounds much better, however there still seems to be a large gap between the capabilities of the SID and Pokey. I think the Pokey is more in its element, so to speak, playing simpler electronic sounds, like early arcade machines (which makes sense). I would like to hear things like the Lemmings soundtrack from it as I believe it could do these sort of simplistic, upbeat tunes well. Edited October 21, 2017 by abraXXious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 What are you talking about? Yeah....exactly dude..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) ...however there still seems to be a large gap between the capabilities of the SID and Pokey. SID has some capabilities that POKEY doesn't have, but POKEY has it's advantages too, for instance: 1. 4 voices as opposed to 3 2. (Most people would agree) better/stronger sound effects 3. (My personal opinion) better overall timbre 4. It's own unique sounds (which I've never heard SID make) The SID chip sounds thin, weak, and buzzy and often like a cheap synthesizer. I like POKEY's strong and thicker sound. The SID can do some neat effects and music, but by and large I don't prefer much of it at all (and I've listened to a lot). This doesn't mean I don't like the SID chips and what it can do. It's a fine chip. But at the end of the day, I don't see it being better than POKEY at all. Edited October 22, 2017 by MrFish 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abraXXious Posted October 22, 2017 Author Share Posted October 22, 2017 OK. A last one ... It should be in this thread That really does sounds like an early SID tune. I could imagine it running in the background of some early 80s Monty Mole type platformer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abraXXious Posted October 22, 2017 Author Share Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) SID has some capabilities that POKEY doesn't have, but POKEY has it's advantages too, for instance: 1. 4 voices as opposed to 3 2. (Most people would agree) better/stronger sound effects 3. (My personal opinion) better overall timbre 4. It's own unique sounds (which I've never heard SID make) The SID chip sounds thin, weak, and buzzy and often like a cheap synthesizer. I like POKEY's strong and thicker sound. The SID can do some neat effects and music, but by and large I don't prefer much of it at all (and I've listened to a lot). This doesn't mean I don't like the SID chips and what it can do. It's a fine chip. But at the end of the day, I don't see it being better than POKEY at all. SID does sort of have 4 voices as the volume registers are used to play sampled sounds in addition to the 3 voices using the bug in the SID - usually used for the percussion. Im sorry, but as a user of both systems the Pokey, as capable as it may have been for its time, cannot compare to the SID at all. The SID, using its extensive envelope, delay etc and different filters and available waveforms, can produce complex and rich sounds such as pipe organs, banjos, harmonicas etc. Pokey can produce beeps and bloops - great for Pacman and Space Invader conversions, not so great for music. Having a soft spot for the 8 bit Atari's (big Jay Miner fan) I would LOVE to hear some amazing Pokey tunes that hold up to the SID - please direct me to ONE. Lets use just the two games I linked to. If you can point me to a single Pokey tune that sounds as good as these then I will happily concede the pokey is the SIDs equal. Edited October 22, 2017 by abraXXious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 There's tons of great POKEY music. Just dig into the SAP archive and keep your eyes and ears on the files that are posted after the meetings held in Poland. I'm not gonna post any big list here, but here are a few favorites of mine in SAP format by composer X-Ray. These two are in stereo. Swift_Ray.zip Synthy_Gambol.zip These two aren't in stereo, but they're supposed to be. They're from a couple of demos where they are both in stereo. I'm not sure why they were released in mono, although it's good to hear them in that form too. You can check out the demo Numen to hear "Boremloza" in stereo and the demo Total Daze to hear "Typewriter" in stereo. Typewriter.zip Boremloza.zip Use the latest version of ASAP or the ASAP plugin for best (most accurate) sound. X-Ray is Master!... like others but has it's own 'way of'... Can't say the better but Boremloza is trully Amazing and Oustanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abraXXious Posted October 22, 2017 Author Share Posted October 22, 2017 Starts slow, but after 1:55 and especially 3:20 shows the gap between SID and any other sound chip of its era. If you listen, more and more voices are added as the piece progresses (using the volume bug). Short piece that shows the SIDs waveform abilities to add variable reverb and decay to give a very full oriental sound. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV3H7TGofJQ Good version of the Turrican III music - C64 got an unofficial port of the Megadrive/Amiga game a few years back. Some good filter effects (love the "ethereal" sounds at 1:16 onwards) Not a great tune (the C64 got two conversions of Afterburner and I prefer the music from the UK version), however this shows the forth sample voice of the SID. The SID had 4 usable voices, not 3. The 4th was for samples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abraXXious Posted October 22, 2017 Author Share Posted October 22, 2017 X-Ray is Master!... like others but has it's own 'way of'... Can't say the better but Boremloza is trully Amazing and Oustanding. Thank you! Checking them out now. Will post back shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 Well this sounds much better, however there still seems to be a large gap between the capabilities of the SID and Pokey. I think the Pokey is more in its element, so to speak, playing simpler electronic sounds, like early arcade machines (which makes sense). I would like to hear things like the Lemmings soundtrack from it as I believe it could do these sort of simplistic, upbeat tunes well. One of the best Pokey tunes I have ever heard: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abraXXious Posted October 22, 2017 Author Share Posted October 22, 2017 One of the best Pokey tunes I have ever heard: We are getting warmer! That's not bad.... but still not great. Can you suggest any others that sound a little less "bloopy"? Did Time Follin ever do any Pokey music? He was usually able to get some good instrument sounds out of the hardware he was using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 Well this sounds much better, however there still seems to be a large gap between the capabilities of the SID and Pokey. Yes, there is a gap, as SID cannot replay this tune. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 That really does sounds like an early SID tune. I could imagine it running in the background of some early 80s Monty Mole type platformer. It actually CAN run in a late 2017 platformer on the Atari As POKEY's nature never was to create "real music" or special waveforms, it has no direct programming interface for that. The good point is that POKEY can be programmed on the direct physical level of a wave and to generate it. I'm still waiting for a tracker that supports it by commands 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) Starts slow, but after 1:55 and especially 3:20 shows the gap between SID and any other sound chip of its era. I particular liked always the start of that tune. And that part after 3:20 , well unique for that days. The "but" is that it sounds too much like SID. It was impressive... really... but (there it is) it sounds off, just like most chiptunes. Listen to any remake of that tune and get the difference. Good version of the Turrican III music - C64 got an unofficial port of the Megadrive/Amiga game a few years back. Arpeggios did in many cases enrich every chiptune. It's a good one. Some good filter effects (love the "ethereal" sounds at 1:16 onwards) Not really, just like in the other "asian style" tunes , you have to like "SID sound" to get your opinion. Not a great tune (the C64 got two conversions of Afterburner and I prefer the music from the UK version), however this shows the forth sample voice of the SID. The SID had 4 usable voices, not 3. The 4th was for samples. What people still miss, ad where I don't find a cause for is that the Atari has 2 soundchips. So, while you can play 4 channels on the Atari, suggesting 6 channels there by some trickery as with the creatures 2 tune, you still could use GTIA as a digi channel. Edited October 22, 2017 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abraXXious Posted October 22, 2017 Author Share Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) I particular liked always the start of that tune. And that part after 3:20 , well unique for that days. The "but" is that it sounds too much like SID. It was impressive... really... but (there it is) it sounds off, just like most chiptunes. Listen to any remake of that tune and get the difference. Arpeggios did in many cases enrich every chiptune. It's a good one. Not really, just like in the other "asian style" tunes , you have to like "SID sound" to get your opinion. What people still miss, ad where I don't find a cause for is that the Atari has 2 soundchips. So, while you can play 4 channels on the Atari, suggesting 6 channels there by some trickery as with the creatures 2 tune, you still could use GTIA as a digi channel. Well that's great that the GTIA can produce an extra two sound channels - with that in mind it should be easy to direct me to a few Pokey tunes that sound as good as the SID ones I posted. I wait with bated breath. Edited October 22, 2017 by abraXXious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 Well that's great that the GTIA can produce an extra sound channels - with that in mind it should be easy to direct me to a few Pokey tunes that sound as good as the SID ones I posted. I wait with bated breath. Depending on opinion.... this one sounds like 6 channels used... And, if someone asks me about, what SID had been done for, just have a look at Hubbard tunes and particular .... Dark sounds for a dark tune, and it works great together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abraXXious Posted October 22, 2017 Author Share Posted October 22, 2017 Depending on opinion.... this one sounds like 6 channels used... And, if someone asks me about, what SID had been done for, just have a look at Hubbard tunes and particular .... Dark sounds for a dark tune, and it works great together. Again, not bad.... but certainly not on the same level as the SID examples I posted - they sound very samey and shallow, no distinct instruments. In fairness, Nemesis The Warlock was never one of Hubbards greats. Didn't the Atari 8 bits get a conversion of Warhawk? It had a good Hubbard soundtrack, it would be interesting to compare the Pokey and SID on the same tune (if Hubbard did the Atari version.... if an Atari version exists). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) Again, not bad.... but certainly not on the same level as the SID examples I posted - they sound very samey and shallow, no distinct instruments.Did you check the video in post 81 ? The created sounds vary between 3 channel SID and 4 channel PSG... and ofcourse POKEY inside. In fairness, Nemesis The Warlock was never one of Hubbards greats. But from a neutral point, it is the best tune, as it doesn't try to press something else into the SID style. Just using it at it's best. Didn't the Atari 8 bits get a conversion of Warhawk? It had a good Hubbard soundtrack, it would be interesting to compare the Pokey and SID on the same tune (if Hubbard did the Atari version.... if an Atari version exists). To me the Hubbard tracks all sounded too flat on the Atari. But playing Warhawk on a TV set was real fun and the tune was driving Edited October 22, 2017 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 maybe doable by mixing a sound with the drums, but it's really boring to do for me That's one of the reasons I prefer 8 tracks tunes I already did reducing "Stereo tunes" to real HW ... ... and I think, it's not that bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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