60 fps video using SIDE 2

[Wrathchild]

Use 7zip as I'd used this to compress to the < 50M limit of single file uploads to AA.

[+CharlieChaplin]

Yes, 7-Zip did the uncompressing for me, when IZ Arc failed...

 

-----

 

Regarding the movies, most of them are good, some are mediocre, very few are bad (and I could not have done any of them better).

 

Alas, the sound in all these movies has a terrible whistling background noise. I am hard-hearing and still I can hear it, so I guess everyone can hear it. When I wanted to show a movie to my wife, she immediately shouted at me to switch it off or mute the sound, since she cannot bear that awful background noise. So I am wondering, where does this whistling background noise come from (from Pokey, yeah) and/or what is the reason for this noise to be present in all movies ? Is there a way to avoid it, e.g. by using a higher or lower sampling rate ?!? (By the way, none of my PDM soundfiles do have such a whistling background noise.)

 

And in case someone says this whistling noise is not there, I can easily make a recording with my Hifi CD-recorder and upload it here as WAV or MP3 (just in case you need some ear-killing noise)...

Edited May 19, 2019 by CharlieChaplin

[+mytek]

It's quite a feat to stream video as it's been done. However the novelty of being able to do so quickly faded, and after a few days I moved on. The quality is just so very bad, that it'll never be usable for much more then a demonstration of what the Atari 8-bit hardware can be pushed into doing. But it reminds me so very much of the poor video quality of those early toy video tape recorders that actually recorded onto audio cassette tape of all things. I know some people have suggested using the streaming video technique for a game, but I just don't see that as being very satisfying.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCXJ5twf5tM&t=448s

[+DrVenkman]

Yes, 7-Zip did the uncompressing for me, when IZ Arc failed...

 

-----

 

Regarding the movies, most of them are good, some are mediocre, very few are bad (and I could not have done any of them better).

 

Alas, the sound in all these movies has a terrible whistling background noise. I am hard-hearing and still I can hear it, so I guess everyone can hear it. When I wanted to show a movie to my wife, she immediately shouted at me to switch it off or mute the sound, since she cannot bear that awful background noise. So I am wondering, where does this whistling background noise come from (from Pokey, yeah) and/or what is the reason for this noise to be present in all movies ? Is there a way to avoid it, e.g. by using a higher or lower sampling rate ?!? (By the way, none of my PDM soundfiles do have such a whistling background noise.)

 

And in case someone says this whistling noise is not there, I can easily make a recording with my Hifi CD-recorder and upload it here as WAV or MP3 (just in case you need some ear-killing noise)...

 

Is the "whistling" noise an artifact of SIO noise streaming through the bus? I'm not currently setup to do any streaming video myself (I don't have any A8 video players on my systems, nor any of the video files to play).

[phaeron]

It is the 15KHz carrier from the PWM technique used to generate the audio. Standard 4-bit volume encoding can be used instead, but the sound would be muffled at the high end instead.

 

PDM would have better quality, but there are currently not enough cycles in horizontal blank. Volume-only is LDA + STA, PWM is LDA + STA x 2, PDM requires LDA x 2 + STA x 2.

[+Philsan]

Someone could please explain graphic mode used?

If I am not wrong it's APAC, graphic mode 9 (16 colors) + graphic mode 11 (16 shades of grey) with black lines.

But how it works exactly?

For example,

line #

1 gr. 9

2 black line

3 gr. 11

4 gr. 9

5 black line

6 gr. 11

 

or

1 gr. 9

2 gr. 11

3 black line

...

[R0ger]

Someone could please explain graphic mode used?

If I am not wrong it's APAC, graphic mode 9 (16 colors) + graphic mode 11 (16 shades of grey) with black lines.

But how it works exactly?

It works like this:

 

1: 16 hues of lowest brightness

2: 16 grays

3: 16 hues of lowest brightness

4: 16 grays

 

The first line is what you perceive as black line. Basically you provide hue in one line, brightness in second.

Edited May 19, 2019 by R0ger

[R0ger]

Btw. I was experimenting with the same approach using mode 4. 4 hues (I use RGBY), 6 brightness levels. The 6th brightness level is PMG underlay. Of course I can only use 4 brightness levels per character, so I decide whether the characters is dark, medium, bright, or what I call 'high contrast'. I don't do anything special for the hues, first I can't switch so many palette entries between lines, second it's not needed really.

 

This gives me 4x6 = 24 colors. It's not entirely bad.

 

But I can also interlace this. I get 10 hues using different combinations, and 11 brightness levels. All that with 160x100 square pixels resolution. And I use the interlace to get more colors, not better resolution as usual. I only flicker 2 brightness levels which are already close together, so it doesn't flicker as bad as you might expect.

 

Here are some examples.

 

24 colors, no flickering:

 

110 colors, flickering:

 

I made short lecture about this n Atariada, you can see it here (in English, you've been warned). I suggest skipping toward the end for more examples.

 

Question of course is .. could it be combined with this kind of video playback ? It uses extensive DLI, almost no cycle left. It's character mode and it uses all PMG. It does work with just the character mode, or with just 4 levels of brigthness, but every level counts.

lambo.4x6.xex

lambo.10x11F.xex

[Kyle22]

It's quite a feat to stream video as it's been done. However the novelty of being able to do so quickly faded, and after a few days I moved on. The quality is just so very bad, that it'll never be usable for much more then a demonstration of what the Atari 8-bit hardware can be pushed into doing. But it reminds me so very much of the poor video quality of those early toy video tape recorders that actually recorded onto audio cassette tape of all things. I know some people have suggested using the streaming video technique for a game, but I just don't see that as being very satisfying.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCXJ5twf5tM&t=448s

But, it is still VERY COOL to see it in action!

I would still laugh at the full length movie Caddyshack if I had an opportunity to see it done on the Atari. It's not that much worse than [VHS].

[R0ger]

Did a little test. It's simple XEX streaming, only works in emulator. Tested with Altirra.

You need pal artifacting, pal machine, frame blending recommended on 60fps screens.

The source framerate is 24, this is 25 with no conversion, so it's slightly faster.

 

gangam-style.zip

Edited May 22, 2019 by R0ger

[Mr Robot]

Works well in Atari800 as well. I provided my own sound

 

[+CharlieChaplin]

Did a little test. It's simple XEX streaming, only works in emulator. Tested with Altirra.

You need pal artifacting, pal machine, frame blending recommended on 60fps screens.

The source framerate is 24, this is 25 with no conversion, so it's slightly faster.

 

 

Hmmm, this is a single *.XEX file which is packed with 7-Zip, then this *.7z file is zipped again ?!?

 

What sense does it make to zip a 7z file ?!? Alright, RAR'd the ZIP, TAR'd the RAR, GZIP'd the TAR then ARC'd the GZ...

[R0ger]

 

 

Hmmm, this is a single *.XEX file which is packed with 7-Zip, then this *.7z file is zipped again ?!?

 

What sense does it make to zip a 7z file ?!? Alright, RAR'd the ZIP, TAR'd the RAR, GZIP'd the TAR then ARC'd the GZ...

 

That's actually simple. I can't attach 7z on this forum

[Mr Robot]

Occam's Razor

[Guest]

Well, I felt I was getting really close with this - on real hardware.

 

but now i've got this going on: it's a PAL video. so

■ File > Load Processing Settings > a8_pal.vdscript (relevant region script)

■ encvideo50n.exe pal_av < video.bin

■ encaudio60 pal_au < audio.bin

■ mux50n pal_av pal_au name.img

and

■ Load APE > movplayPAL.atr to D1: slot  - at SDX D1: prompt type movplay.xex

were all used at the relevant stages of the process

 

after quite a lot of help from @Wrathchild with the encoding etc and some HxD help form @flashjazzcat (i was forgetting to remove the tick from read only)

thanks to both!

 

yesterday:

 

 

today: 

 

 

 

 

the hammer-drill audio needs fixing, but also something in

File > Export > Raw Video and select these settings
Format: 4:2:0 YCbCr planar, R.60.1, 8-bit, Y:16-235 centred 
Secondary plane order: Cb/Cr (V/U) 
Scanline alignment: 4 bytes 
Vertical orientation: Top-down 
and save as video.bin

needs amending. but no idea what to do next.

Edited August 14, 2019 by Guest

[a8isa1]

brenski,  I haven't done a video conversion in ages but I believe you have to pad an image file with 16 bytes. If you are working with a real CF card then start the data at LBA16. 

 

If you have already done this then I haven't another guess as to what's gone wrong.

 

-SteveS

[Guest]

@a8isa1 sorry, not following you.

 

are you saying i need to blank 16 bytes at the beginning of cfCard and then paste-write the img file below the padding?

if so, would that be 00000000 to ?

 

[a8isa1]

ugh, I meant 16 sectors, not bytes.

 

I don't think the contents of the padding matter.  Phaeron's movie player begins reading at LBA sector 16, the 17th sector of the disk (or image file)

 

[Edit]

Here's a sample of how I create working image file for Altirra to use

 

dd bs=512 seek=17 if=techno_dance-pal.bin of=/media/sda2/Emulators/Altirra/techno_dance-pal.dd

 

note: dd, a linux utility, begins counting at 1 not at 0.

 

[Edit #2]

so padding, at the begginning is 8192 or 16*512 bytes.  Sorry for the confusion.

Edited August 14, 2019 by a8isa1

[Guest]

so in HxD (windows 10), I'd be clearing from

00000000 to 00001FF0   (sector 0 - 15 incl)

 

with the paste-write of the .img file starting at 

00002000  (sector 16) ?

 

 

Edited August 14, 2019 by Guest

[a8isa1]

1 minute ago, brenski said:

so in HxD (windows 10), I'd be clearing from

00000000 to 000000F0

 

with the paste-write of the .img file starting at 

00000100 ?

 

 

I do not know.  During the brief 1.5 years I had a Windows machine (win7) I cheated and used DD.EXE, a clone for the linux utility.

[Guest]

i amended my post just before your reply came through

 

also - i've just checked my .img file and it's completely blank from

00000000 to 00498FF0

so that should be sufficient

Edited August 14, 2019 by Guest

[+CharlieChaplin]

2 hours ago, brenski said:

Well, I felt I was getting really close with this - on real hardware.

 

but now i've got this going on: it's a PAL video. so

■ File > Load Processing Settings > a8_pal.vdscript (relevant region script)

■ encvideo50n.exe pal_av < video.bin

■ encaudio60 pal_au < audio.bin

■ mux50n pal_av pal_au name.img

and

■ Load APE > movplayPAL.atr to D1: slot  - at SDX D1: prompt type movplay.xex

were all used at the relevant stages of the process

 

after quite a lot of help from @Wrathchild with the encoding etc and some HxD help form @flashjazzcat (i was forgetting to remove the tick from read only)

thanks to both!

 

yesterday:

 

 

 

today:

 

 

 

Well,

today looks a bit better than yesterday... but today is turned 90 degrees to the left... 

Try to get up with your right foot first, errm, try to turn 90 degrees to the right...

 

Alas, I have absoutely no clue, what's wrong with the video conversion. phaeron for the rescue!

 

[a8isa1]

2 hours ago, brenski said:

i amended my post just before your reply came through

 

also - i've just checked my .img file and it's completely blank from

00000000 to 00498FF0

so that should be sufficient

Sorry, I probably haven't been explaining this well.   Your video is probably fine as is but the raw Atari video needs to be aligned properly within the disk image.  It does not matter how many 0's are in the image file's data it's where on the disk (or disk image) the data begins.

 

You need <8192 bytes of padding> +  <your video>.  This becomes your .IMG file that movplay can use in Altirra.

 

-SteveS

 

 

[Wrathchild]

This all seems strange, I've never had to pad a resulting image file?

[Guest]

confused now...way beyond any previous levels of confusion i'd succumbed to 

 

talk about "rabbit holes" - i could swear I've passed the Queen of "F*ck it, you're doomed fella" at least twice now - and the last time she was carrying a croquet mallet! 

Edited August 14, 2019 by Guest