Princess Rescue Now Available!

[Andromeda Stardust]

I've not had any trouble reaching the high flagpoles on World 2. When Mario red plumber hits the top edge of the screen, he continues to scroll left and right, and the game engine counts the vertical position of Mario red plumber correctly, so he always comes down at the right moment. Running does help, either with the Genesis 3 button controller, or diagonal up on the Atari joystick.

 

By the way, please use an official Atari VCS or 2600 system, any of the common 6 or 4 switch models should work flawlessly. Many clone consoles may possibly have varying compatibility issues with games (especially modern homebrews) that use undocumented or illegal op-codes. This includes certain revisions of the 7800 and 2600 Jr, unfortunately, so if you're playing homebrews on a 7800 or Jr model, getting one with 100% compatibility can be a crapshoot.

[CatPix]

I play Princess Rescue on a PAL Atari Jr.

A NTSC copie (I ordered e copy before learning that PAL games were on their way). I sure get lots of collision bugs but I couldn't get the game unplayable yet. I havent tested it on my 7800 tho.

I can't tell if it's the Jr itself or the NTSC to PAL that make the game a bit more buggy... maybe both?

Edited September 27, 2013 by CatPix

[mkiker2089]

The issue seems to be with how the game detects collision of the top border. On my consoles the game stops upward movement but allows some forward movement. On some consoles it doesn't allow any movement and the character drops like a rock after touching the top. This can be tested on world 1-2 where you can easily get to the roof.

 

Given that can anyone tell what possible hardware variations would cause this?

[iesposta]

The issue seems to be with how the game detects collision of the top border. On my consoles the game stops upward movement but allows some forward movement. On some consoles it doesn't allow any movement and the character drops like a rock after touching the top. This can be tested on world 1-2 where you can easily get to the roof.

 

Given that can anyone tell what possible hardware variations would cause this?

Top border: true.

Allows some forward movement: true, mine also.

Some don't allow any movement: I did not know that.

What possible HW variations cause this? : This is where it gets weird.

I have 2 PR carts, and the final BIN on Harmony.

Sunnyvale Heavy Sixer, RF: All work - cart 1, cart 2, Harmony

Sunnyvale Light Sixer, Batari AV mod. One cart works. One cart doesn't work. Harmony works.

Woodgrain Four Switch, Longhorn AV mod. One cart works. One cart doesn't work. Harmony works.

Right now, there is no explanation of why collision with the top happens on one cart and not the other cart on the same Atari system(s).

I remember playing it fine on my 7800's, but that was with Harmony (before I got the game carts). And I have a "last model serial number X 7800" that can't play Beef Drop or Scramble and PR ran fine from Harmony. I never saw this collision with the top until the physical carts.

[mkiker2089]

It's not a HW variation in the cart is it? That seems unlikely but I suppose it can't be ruled out. I've seen the glitch and it looked to me like collision with the top border. Would someone describe it differently?

[iesposta]

Sprybug says it is detecting a collision offscreen.

This never showed up in testing.

Still it is a fantastic first game. It will always be in my best of the best.

Even if some things aren't perfect, like when landing should kill an enemy but it kills you. Things like that you just learn to avoid.

Since it is no longer sold on cart and Harmony seems to work on nearly everything, I would rather spend time playing.

[Andromeda Stardust]

This is getting weirder and weirder. I can't imagine that anything but the exact same binaries would be present on multiple carts. Did Albert accidentally flash some of the games with a beta ROM? I remember someone reporting the ceiling bug on the Atari Jr and 7800s, some revisions of which are known not to be 100% accurate compared to the "pure" 6- and 4-switch models.

 

I understood that some Genesis controllers didn't work and others did, due to subtle variations between controllers, and the Genesis pinout being different from Atari's.

 

And don't get me started on VCS clones like the Gemini or a modded Flashback II, which have tons of issues. If you're using one of those as your primary Atari system, you're doing it wrong.

[Albert]

Did Albert accidentally flash some of the games with a beta ROM?

No.

[Sir Guntz]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Stardust, I have to use a small 2600. I use my Gemini / Jr on a desk that doesn't offer much space next to the monitors. I simply don't have any room for a real 2600. I think I can lump it with the Gemini, I can at least get past 2-1 and 2-3. It just felt crummy my first time playing, thinking either the game or my console was at fault. Nobody likes to encounter serious flaws in a new game.

 

The Coleco Gemini must be pretty close to a real 2600 if it can play Princess Rescue where a Jr can't. Anyone have comments on how those two clones differ from original 2600s or is it not that well known? Are there threads about this?

 

(secretly I like the Gemini better because it has controller ports on the front like modern consoles)

[CatPix]

Most JR plays PR. As I said, I play it on a 2600 Jr, and apart for more collision issues than on my Sears 2600, no problems. And those collisions might simply come from the fact that it's a NTSC cart playing on a PAL Unit.

I don't have much choice as I didn't get th time to AV mod the Sears before moving for a new job and so because I wouldn't have time nor tools to mod it, I left it behind and brough the more practical 2600JR which happen to have an AV output (right from Atari, not self made one).

Almost none of my TV's can catch NTSC signals and it's even more true on LCD TV.

[Sprybug]

Been playing Princess Rescue (and getting pissed off sometimes at the extreme rigidness of the jumping/platforming), interesting to see people reporting problems getting to the flagpole in 2-1 (and 2-3). I was stuck on that very flagpole for a good half hour. On my Coleco Gemini, Mario can't move side to side when he's over the top of the screen on some levels, including 2-1, so I couldn't reach the flagpole. I figured it was some game breaking flaw and hoped it was a console thing and not a problem with the game itself. I eventually realized there's a run button. At both the trouble flag poles, it's possible to run off the top ledge, into the flagpole and progress to the next level.

 

When I thought my Gemini was incompatible, I tried my Short Rainbow 2600 Jr... And the fucking thing has this horrible freezing glitch 1 or 2 seconds after you power it on! Anybody know what's causing this? Did someone say this happens on the 7800 as well? At first I thought maybe the Jr was dusty from sitting in a office cabinet for a while, but no, all my other games work fine on it, no freezing problem.

 

I've been really trying to enjoy the game, but it's seriously been pissing me off with stuff like this. If it weren't for my Gemini, I wouldn't even be able to play it! The farthest I've gotten is 2-4, but I keep running out of lives because it's so ridiculously easy to fall off a ledge, or somehow hit the side of an enemy when you try to jump on them or get killed by a shell when you kick it and it somehow goes towards you and not away. I guess I'll try using the 5 lives setting until I can get used to the game. It's a really impressive game, but it's really, REALLY unforgiving. The boss battles with BJ are just as hard, it's so easy to get killed from not jumping on him right or at the correct moment.

 

Also, while I'm at it, I find it annoying that Super Mario is too tall to fit through most platforms. At times the level design is really only meant for Small Mario. Sometimes I keep wishing I could do a sliding duck to go through platforms, but there's no physics. I guess what I should do is lower my expectations immensely, but maybe Spry would find that a compliment that I instinctively treat Princess Rescue like the original NES Super Mario Bros.

 

Was Princess Rescue designed with the older 2600 models in mind? Are the Jr and 7800 actually different in some tiny ways?

Sorry about your issues. There have been some reported issues on different Atari models, but it seems to work fine on most (if not all) of the 6-switchers and 4 switchers. I have an AV modded 4 switcher here at home, plus a portable I made and it worked fine on both of those and the beta testers never told me of this strange occurrence, so it went in to be produced the way it was. It wasn't until after production that some people reported some problems on certain models. The level designs are actually designed to work either small or big, it's just in some cases where you decide to go (up and over if your big or down below between the small areas if you're small). There are only a few occurrences like this. I decided to do that to give some variation for the game player, about as much as I could think of with all the limitations I had. There are physics, but they aren't exactly the same as Nintendo's Mario physics. It's really my own platform engine physics. Zippy runs on a similar physic set, but with more additions to it because he can ball up and have variable speeds. Austin is right about being able to jump farther by applying the run in mid-air, if you hadn't by running on the ground already. It will let you act as running even if you aren't on the ground.

[Sprybug]

I can assure you that in Zippy, this problem has been resolved as much as I know on my end, because it doesn't use the same collision mechanics that Princess Rescue uses and I added a new routine to not attempt detecting anything once Zippy is above the first playfield row. This was an oversight in the PR code because I didn't have any issues with it and didn't hear of any problems until after production. It wasn't until I heard of this issue that I looked into it and pretty much pinpointed what might cause that. It is odd that on most Atari systems it just says, oh there's nothing here that's fine, while on others it actually does put things off screen for you to run into. I wish it could have been 100% bug free on release, but without really thorough beta testing on multiple different machines, it's not possible to find them all. Hopefully as a community, we can try to resolve that with Zippy. When I start beta testing Zippy, I'd like to get as many different Atari machines that I can to play it. Problem is, it's 64k and won't run on a harmony cart for people to test with. It's going to be interesting to see how we're going to do beta testing on the real deal. I can't even beta test it on my own machines. Albert was the first one to run it on true hardware this week with his 64k board.

[san-d-2000]

How far finished is Zippy right now?

[rasch_C]

First off, I'd like to say I love the game and it is a great piece of work! With that out of the way, I wish to add at least some of my hardware to the list of ones having the off-screen collision issues.

 

I have noticed collision issues on my Sears Video Arcade II, can't recall if they were existent on my heavy 6 (played briefly), and my light 6 I can't test on at the moment as it's in temporary storage as we renovate the girls' room. I will plan to do more extensive testing on my other 2 consoles this weekend and report back.

 

I only state this so it can benefit further development on these systems. As a fellow programmer (not of VCS yet), I understand the great benefit to having specific platform nuances documented.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I still do not understand why one of the above commenters reported that one of his carts exhibited the glitch and the other didn't. All things being equal, it shouldn't happen on one cart and not the other with the same system.

 

Top border: true.
Allows some forward movement: true, mine also.
Some don't allow any movement: I did not know that.
What possible HW variations cause this? : This is where it gets weird.
I have 2 PR carts, and the final BIN on Harmony.
Sunnyvale Heavy Sixer, RF: All work - cart 1, cart 2, Harmony
Sunnyvale Light Sixer, Batari AV mod. One cart works. One cart doesn't work. Harmony works.
Woodgrain Four Switch, Longhorn AV mod. One cart works. One cart doesn't work. Harmony works.
Right now, there is no explanation of why collision with the top happens on one cart and not the other cart on the same Atari system(s).
I remember playing it fine on my 7800's, but that was with Harmony (before I got the game carts). And I have a "last model serial number X 7800" that can't play Beef Drop or Scramble and PR ran fine from Harmony. I never saw this collision with the top until the physical carts.

[Sprybug]

How far finished is Zippy right now?

The 4 level demo that is available on the forum is where it's at right now.

[Sir Guntz]

Sorry about your issues. There have been some reported issues on different Atari models, but it seems to work fine on most (if not all) of the 6-switchers and 4 switchers. I have an AV modded 4 switcher here at home, plus a portable I made and it worked fine on both of those and the beta testers never told me of this strange occurrence, so it went in to be produced the way it was. It wasn't until after production that some people reported some problems on certain models. The level designs are actually designed to work either small or big, it's just in some cases where you decide to go (up and over if your big or down below between the small areas if you're small). There are only a few occurrences like this. I decided to do that to give some variation for the game player, about as much as I could think of with all the limitations I had. There are physics, but they aren't exactly the same as Nintendo's Mario physics. It's really my own platform engine physics. Zippy runs on a similar physic set, but with more additions to it because he can ball up and have variable speeds. Austin is right about being able to jump farther by applying the run in mid-air, if you hadn't by running on the ground already. It will let you act as running even if you aren't on the ground.

 

Thanks for replying. It's pretty unfortunate you weren't able to test on more hardware, but at least most are supported. I guess you guys didn't have a whole lot of time or volunteers. Maybe you can revise the code if and when you "hack" Princess Rescue to be a different game. I'll keep playing Princess Rescue anyway. It's a really great game regardless, still stunning to see it running on an actual Atari 2600, especially when I directly compare it to regular retail games.

 

I still do not understand why one of the above commenters reported that one of his carts exhibited the glitch and the other didn't. All things being equal, it shouldn't happen on one cart and not the other with the same system.

 

 

Is it possible the "ceiling" collision detection depends on a random variable, or other not constant element of the code? Or it becomes random on certain models when powered up? Maybe on the problem models, the RAM has a chance to adversely affect the code for the ceiling and the clone hardware doesn't really permit to correct the issue like on original 2600s. I don't know enough on the subject, but perhaps you understand me anyway?

 

I wonder why the game crashes on certain Jr / 7800 revisions.

[LidLikesIntellivision]

Since I tested PR in my 7800s, I feel a little ashemed for PR bugs...

I have two 7800.

One is a very, very incompatible one.

It doesn't play Lady Bug cart (only the rom in harmony), Space Rocks rom in harmony, any starpath games in harmony (don't have supercharger), many Brazilian CCE, Wip 2600 Frenzy, Tac-scan and the list goes on...

But this very buggy 7800 had no issues with Princess Rescue.

 

Probably I said that to Sprybug and he felt confortable with the 7800s...

I'm very sorry.

 

PS.: I ordered one cart, it didn't arrive yet and I'm very curious to see if it's gonna work fine with this system.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Maybe we need to rethink all those undocumented op-codes we are using in homebrew games, especially if different systems handle them differently. I have not had any problems, but I would have been upset if mine had.

[mkiker2089]

It must be a random variable. There are too many people with different hardware that see it working and not working. Unless it's a cart issue but Albert made them all the same.

[LS_Dracon]

Maybe we need to rethink all those undocumented op-codes we are using in homebrew games, especially if different systems handle them differently. I have not had any problems, but I would have been upset if mine had.

There is some incompatible codes according TIA revisions.

Recently found my Atari doesn't run some games, like Kool Aid Man.

Not a big lost, but these "hardware bugs" is really annoying for programmers, because even running the game on real hardware, not means will play in all Atari hardwares.

Recently I was testing a private W.I.P. and I was the unique which the game displayed some garbled pixels on screen. Thankfully this was fixed in time.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Pity this is only coming to light after the game got pulled...

[Sir Guntz]

Well, if Sprybug changes PR into a non-infringing original game, he can include these bug fixes, that's worth something at least.

 

Definitely looking forward to Zippy.

[mkiker2089]

Didn't Dan say using the undocumented codes would bite us eventually?

[RevEng]

Its not undocumented opcodes causing problems here. There are a ton of bB programs with the same kernel - and thus the exact same undocumented opcodes used in exactly the same way - running on all kinds of real hardware without problems.