Osgeld Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 People need to go read a EULA, because too many if you don't understand what it is that you're paying for. If you buy a chair, then you own that chair. It's yours to do with as you wish. When you go buy a game (or any piece of software), you are buying the right to use it. No I bought the game not just the right to use it, its only AFTER the SALE that it is disclosed to me that it is not the case, that is bait and switch. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xDragonWarrior Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 (edited) Who are you to ask "who are you?" Who does anyone have to be? A bum covered in joy juice and feces can call someone an idiot. That's not the only difference. The used game for 5 dollars less than full price often has at least one small scratch, greasy fingerprints all over it, and it could be missing the manual or box or both. It could also be missing any special download codes. It's smarter to spend the extra 5 bucks and get a pristine copy. When i said the only diference is that someone played it before me,it is implied that there will be scratches,smudges and fingerprints.and in m experience of buying from Gamestop,Play n trade etc,I have never gotten a used copy of a game without a instructions or box. I sometime buy off Ebay(only 5% of my modern game purchases).I scored some months ago Resident Evil 6 when it was $60 in stores for $26,34 dollars cheaper and they all arrive in pretty good condition in fact this goes to something else.Out off all the used games i brought(and i've played the hell out of almost all of them),all of them still work without any problems.not untill i see a used copy of a game i want and it dosent have the manual then i will pay the extra amount but until then it's used games because in my experience t has not failed on me to change it. Not trying to say you're wrong but to let you know my input. Edited June 10, 2013 by xDragonWarrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 When i said the only diference is that someone played it before me,it is implied that there will be scratches,smudges and fingerprints.and in m experience of buying from Gamestop,Play n trade etc,I have never gotten a used copy of a game without a instructions or box. I sometime buy off Ebay(only 5% of my modern game purchases).I scored some months ago Resident Evil 6 when it was $60 in stores for $26,34 dollars cheaper and they all arrive in pretty good condition in fact this goes to something else.Out off all the used games i brought(and i've played the hell out of almost all of them),all of them still work without any problems.not untill i see a used copy of a game i want and it dosent have the manual then i will pay the extra amount but until then it's used games because in my experience t has not failed on me to change it. Not trying to say you're wrong but to let you know my input. Then explain the loose game disc in generic package that I keep seeing everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emehr Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 EULAs are a joke. Any company can conjure up some legal-sounding text that tells the consumer that they do not own what they purchased and that they are merely "licensing" it. Here, I'll make one for a chair: "By purchasing this chair, you, the licensee, are entering into a binding agreement that the comfort provided by this product is non-transferable. You may own the wood, fabric, and binding hardware which comprises this chair, but transferring this license so that others may partake in its comfort, is strictly prohibited." There. Thanks, software industry, for starting this bullshit. Now it's only a matter of time before other industries follow. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xDragonWarrior Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Then explain the loose game disc in generic package that I keep seeing everywhere. I said in my experience, you may see them everywhere but when i go out, i don't see them that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 (edited) EULAs are a joke. Any company can conjure up some legal-sounding text that tells the consumer that they do not own what they purchased and that they are merely "licensing" it. Here, I'll make one for a chair: "By purchasing this chair, you, the licensee, are entering into a binding agreement that the comfort provided by this product is non-transferable. You may own the wood, fabric, and binding hardware which comprises this chair, but transferring this license so that others may partake in its comfort, is strictly prohibited." There. Thanks, software industry, for starting this bullshit. Now it's only a matter of time before other industries follow. Problem is, *unless I should decide to hang a 1984-style teleprompter in my living room,* how will the company know whether or not I allowed my friends over to partake in the chair's comfort? Does the chair come with sensors that somehow take measurements on my butt imprint to verify my identity? Does it sound an alarm if an unauthorized occupant sits in my chair? Also, if I take my chair to get reupholstered, is the EULA now null and void? Are their legal repercussions for having my "smart" chair reupholstered without the company's explicit approval? *unless I should decide to hang a 1984-style teleprompter in my living room,* And before anybody quotes me, that's exactly what the Xbox One is. It has a screen for displaying pictures and an eye that watches you. It can speak to you, the gamer, and it has a microphone so that you can speak to it. Sounds pretty much like something right out of a George Orwell novel, don't it? No thanks, M$, I prefer to keep Big Brother out of the loop as much as possible. It's bad enough the government can freely monitor my Internet usage without my consent; even worse if I buy a game console that monitors my living room as well. Edited June 11, 2013 by stardust4ever 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Problem is, *unless I should decide to hang a 1984-style teleprompter in my living room,* how will the company know whether or not I allowed my friends over to partake in the chair's comfort? Does the chair come with sensors that somehow take measurements on my butt imprint to verify my identity? Does it sound an alarm if an unauthorized occupant sits in my chair? It relies on the honor system. Honorable neighbors, friends, and family members anonymously turn in the perpetrators. And why shouldn't they? Seat-pirates cost the furniture industry billions of dollars of profits a year. You wouldn't steal a car, would you? Why would you take a seat? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 You wouldn't steal a car, would you? Why would you take a seat? Um, last time I checked, you didn't need a license + insurance to operate a seat. That includes passenger seats in cars too. Only the driver's seat requires a license. Apparently, Microsoft seems to think that you need a "license" to operate a video game as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlepaddle Posted June 11, 2013 Author Share Posted June 11, 2013 http://thedeconstruc....org/drm-chair/ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorfcadet Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Not trying to start a console war, but I think Sony just roasted MS on their DRM stand and it may give them a huge win in sales this gen. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schizophretard Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Ah, so is buying a used book piracy? How about a used record or CD? What the heck makes software on a disk any different than any other form of media? People have been buying used books for centuries CENTURIES. No one has ever had a problem with it. Why is software suddenly due an exception? Bobbs-Merrill Company had a problem with it. From the Bobbs-Merrill Co. v. Straus Supreme Court case: "Does the sole right to vend (named in 4952) secure to the owner of the copyright the right, after a sale of the book to a purchaser, to restrict future sales of the book at retail, to the right to sell it at a certain price per copy, because of a notice in the book that a sale at a different price will be treated as an infringement, which notice has been brought home to one undertaking to sell for less than the named sum?" Notice the word infringement? What is the derogatory term to describe an act of infringement? Piracy. What would you potentially be called for selling a used book if the Supreme Court ruled in Bobbs-Merrill's favor? Pirate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schizophretard Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I love how that video compares stealing people's property to someone altering their own property to match someone else's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 (edited) http://thedeconstruc....org/drm-chair/ 8 uses before it breaks. Probably less for people larger than 200 lbs. Planned obsolescence. Microsoft has already pulled this stunt with the Xbox360. Game for 8 days/weeks/months before RROD. Not trying to start a console war, but I think Sony just roasted MS on their DRM stand and it may give them a huge win in sales this gen. It will be just Sony vs Nintendo again, like the old N64/PS1 years... Oh, and Calvin does not like the Xbox One: Edited June 11, 2013 by stardust4ever 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 When you go buy a game (or any piece of software), you are buying the right to use it. The disc is simply the vehicle with which they transmit the software to you. You own the disc, but (AND READ THIS PART THREE TIMES SO THAT IT SOAKS IN) you do not own the information on the disc. I read it thrice, but it still hasn't soaked in. If the EULAs don't state this, it is patently not the case for retail software. There aren't laws or case law that makes retail software different from other retail goods in this regard. Any good purchased at retail has implied warranties attached to it by contract law, as well as first-sale exhaustion of copyrights and trademarks for that individual good. You own the disc and the information on the disc. This is why I find EULAs so heinous. Game distributors want the ease of retail sales with the ability to unsuspectingly lock me in a contract that waves away decades of consumer rights and protections. That's crap. 8 uses before it breaks. Probably less for people larger than 200 lbs. Planned obsolescence. Microsoft has already pulled this stunt with the Xbox360. Game for 8 days/weeks/months before RROD. I'm on original Xbox owner. I waited to buy a 360 until the Jasper units came out, as they were supposed to be more resistant to RROD, and I can't afford to keep buying expensive consoles. Two+ years later, RROD. I'm out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbeliever Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I think the only reason my Xbox 360 still works is because I don't use it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 My Xbox 360 is still working. I got it in May of 2009. I hope it will keep working at least until Microsoft stops supporting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbeliever Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Well, I know it's still working...just played it awhile ago, but it's not heavily used. I mean, I like the system and all, but with all this information about the Xbox 1, I look at my Xbox 360 and shake my head, saying "Just look what you've become..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlepaddle Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 Update: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/jun/13/xbox-one-microsoft-e3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimerians Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I highly doubt they will backtrack. They setup this infrastructure and there will be those who do buy it and support this framework. My final Microsoft console is the Xbox 360 it was a blast and I loved the original Xbox. Between Steam and the PS4 I won't miss out on much. I also currently own an Ouya and Wii U and I'm set. If they ever change direction (like Sony did) I will gladly come back. I don't hold grudges forever to anyone (even what Sega did in the 90's) but it's over right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lentzquest Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I hope Sony is really cranking out the PS4 units. It'd be a shame if people flock to the stores to buy a PS4 only to find they're sold out, and then give in to instant gratification and pick up the Xbone instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbeliever Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I hope Sony is really cranking out the PS4 units. It'd be a shame if people flock to the stores to buy a PS4 only to find they're sold out, and then give in to instant gratification and pick up the Xbone instead. I hope so as well. This would be Sony's opportunity to win this once and for all. I'm not a Sony fan or Microsoft fan, but I hope manage this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlepaddle Posted June 20, 2013 Author Share Posted June 20, 2013 Well, maybe not yet: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/jun/19/xbox-one-drm-second-hand-restrictions-abandoned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbeliever Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 It's awesome. Must have one big "boom" of protest heard 'round the world in M$'s ears. The gamers win! I love it when we all have the power to shake some corporation's foundation to the core. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorfcadet Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Still getting a PS4 and Wii U instead. Mostly because I don't like MS's public attitiude. They sound as if they are saying that whiny gamers ruined all our great plans for them. They can still do everything they announced, just with digital purchased games only. The all or nothing nonsense doesn't float. But hey, I can't imagine what its like at MS, I mean it must be like being on a nuclear sub or something. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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