PS4 may include DRM for used games

[xg4bx]

''While Sony has already confirmed that the PlayStation 4 will allow consumers to play used games, to date the company has not detailed specifics of how second-hand software or any associated digital rights management (DRM) will be handled. Still unanswered is the question of whether or not players will be required to pay additional fees to activate a previously owned game. GameTrailers TV host Geoff Keighley believes that Sony may be looking to follow Microsoft's lead by considering DRM for used games in the upcoming generation.

 

 

"Sony I think has been seen as this kind of white knight so far that’s not going to restrict used games. Based on some of the things I’m hearing, I don’t think that’s entirely true. I can’t see publishers allowing one system to do one thing more than another," he said.''

 

 

http://www.gamespot.com/news/ps4-may-include-drm-for-used-games-report-6408925

[potatohead]

The writing is on the wall kids. Serious console gaming is moving to a pay per experience model. So far, tethering various things to an online server and account have been met with varying degrees of success.

 

Here is how it will go down.

 

Gaming a little stale? Looking for some really great new experiences? Great!! Sign up here, and you will get them, or... not. Really will be that simple.

 

Me?

 

I'm stopping where I am. Don't need a new console. Indie gaming on whatever platform makes sense, and I've had some good experiences, and I've had some crap ones too. There is a lot out there besides the next major console generation.

[Atariboy]

I thought the official line when they unveiled it was that it was up to the individual publisher?

[Mord]

I thought the official line when they unveiled it was that it was up to the individual publisher?

 

And guess what that translates to in practice.

 

I'm willing to bet anything Sony publishes for themselves will use it.

[Andromeda Stardust]

The writing's been on the wall for some time now:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/01/03/report-new-sony-patent-blocks-second-hand-games

 

Microsoft just had a serious case of "diarrhea of the mouth" and was stupid enough to announce it in their press conference. Future retro gaming is officially dead, starting with MS and Sony's 8th generation consoles.

[boog]

Gamestop's president made a comment last week that both Sony and Microsoft 'see the value' in the used game market. ebay Germany is now promoting the Wii U as DRM-free next gen... no mention of the PS4. Looks like Sony has already briefed used game profiteers on some kind of PS4 DRM.

 

I just hope they leave an option to play single player without constant online check-in so games don't expire when the console is obsolete. That's the dealbreaker for me. Linking the retail disc to my PSN id and having limited re-sale options would be tolerable.

Edited May 28, 2013 by boog

[Reaperman]

Last gen, sony was often the 'bad guy,' but after the rage died down for something that they did, microsoft sometimes followed right behind them and snuck in similar changes. For example when they modified PSN/XBLA eulas to make it extremely hard to bring a lawsuit against them. Maybe Sony is seeing the value in letting M$ take some of the rage this time.

[Scotterpop]

I'm officially calling it: There's no such thing as an 8th generation for consoles. The WiiU aside, the next batch of machines from Playstation and Microsoft mark a sea change in the industry where all of our consumer freedoms have been stripped away and physical copies of games have become obsolete. We can really no longer consider these machines "consoles" in the historical sense. They're morphing into PC/cable box/DVR/streaming devices that, oh yeah, just happen to play games (with a GIANT asterisk!). I have no doubt that Sony will follow suit with some sort of pay-to-play infrastructure for used games. So my question is: Why bother buying a used game at all when you're going to most likely have to pay full price for it and you won't be able to play the game from the disc anyway? As far as your system is concerned, it only exists in a digital form anyway. You might as well just download it (just like they want you to!). The difference between consoles and PC gaming used to be the freedoms we could enjoy with our physical media and the lack of an internet registration/connection requirement. Now all that's been completely thrown out the window with this next generation. We used to be able to just hook the system up to a TV, plug the power cord in, pop in your new or used game, and you'd be ready to go. That's what a console is. These new machines coming later this year are very different animals. And I do NOT like what I see so far...

[Necron99]

well, I'm glad I started collecting video games. now I don't need to bother with this tripe since I have a ton of games I have yet to play/finish.

 

Looks like the end to me. I'm not going to sink thousands of dollars into something that will decrease in value to literally zero in 5-7 years.

[Andromeda Stardust]

2nd-5th generation: plug it in and play.

6th generation: games begin to have online components.

7th generation: online games become standard practice; marketplace established on all major consoles. Mobile gaming booms.

8th generation (MS & Sony consoles): discs are only good for one time use. Online required. Consoles essentially useless once support ends. Retrogaming is dead except for Nintendo.

9th generation (et all). All consoles download-only. Discs are a thing of the past, just like carts are now. Retrogaming is dead for 9th generation and up.

 

It feels weird saying this. I remember having an argument with my friend about the upcoming Game Cube, "Nintendo finally sold out to the disc." It's like cartridges were a thing of the past, and the world lost something somehow. Now it's DRM restricting resale of games; tomorrow it will be discs getting replaced by intangible downloads. Without hard copies of games, retro gaming will cease to exist on all but the oldest gaming consoles, and many great games will get lost in the digital ether never to be played again...

Edited May 28, 2013 by stardust4ever

[Master Phruby]

I believe there is always ways around DRM. It's been cracked on DVDs and blu-rays why can't it be cracked on XBox1 and PS4? I'm sure someone will come up with a hardware patch that will allow us to play the phyiscal media of these games without the phone home aspect. Every other console has some kind of mod that allows CDRs and region unlocking. Why can't that happen here?

[potatohead]

When part of the thing is on a server, all of that becomes harder to do, simply because nobody ever has a complete copy. Make it conditional, in that the streamed content varies and the bar goes up really high.

 

For me, it's not about any of that. It's all about value, and I see the value being diluted in various ways I find no longer worth entertaining. Who knows? If it's compelling enough, I might reconsider, but that is the issue.

[madmax2069]

I know that the latest God of War had a online passcode, I can only guess GT6 will have one as well. I bet that Sony will do the whole online pass BS that EA did.

 

If I knew it had online pass I would not have bought it. I do think that any game that uses a online pass should clearly state it on the case.

Edited May 28, 2013 by madmax2069

[Atariboy]

I'm willing to bet anything Sony publishes for themselves will use it.

 

I think they actually said otherwise. Or at least that's what has been posted at the AVS forums.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I bet that Sony will do the whole online pass BS that EA did.

They already do with late PS3 titles. I bought Little Big Planet Karting new and it had an online pass code in the box. LBP1 and LBP2 did not have codes yet have rich experience. Either way, the offline component is rich and free to use without the code, and I believe the code is $10, but seeing as GameStop likes to sell used games for $5 less than retail, buying an "online pass" code on a used game will actually cost more than retail. Also kudos to Sony for making the PS Move optional on a lot of titles. I got my PS3 Slim shortly after the Move released, after the non-move 160Gb bundle had a second big price drop. I decided not to buy their Wiimote copycat technology, so I'm glad it remained optional in the LBP series. I'm really a Nintendo fanboy at heart but I changed my avatar to reflect my distaste for current gaming trends. If Sony follows a similar trend, it will be Wii-U and Ouya all the way for me and no new MS/Sony consoles. It will be good business for Nintendo, but as outsiders, we really don't know what the motivation is. It may even be conceivable that 3rd party developers have pressured MS/Sony into adopting stricter measures to combat used game sales. It is already well known that these devs already loathe GameStop. So do most retro gamers but for entirely different reasons. Nintendo has a track record of refusing to play ball in Sony/MS court, and also being a bit behind the times. In the case of Wii-U, I actually see this as a potentially positive thing. Nevermind that Nintendo was viewed as an evil tyrant back during the NES years, but they got slammed with antitrust lawsuits, and other companies quickly picked up the licensed games policies. The wild, wild west days with Atari and the like flooding the market with sub-par games were over. However, corporations are getting greedy again and the old methods of generating revenue are not good enough. How about game companies quit bankrupting themselves by focusing more on gameplay than graphics instead of spending fifty to a hunded million dollars per game simply to one-up each other. That crap works fine in the movie business where you can build a giant server farm rendering one HD movie frame to the hour. It simply doesn't fly in realtime game engines. Edited May 28, 2013 by stardust4ever

[madmax2069]

They already do with late PS3 titles. I bought Little Big Planet Karting new and it had an online pass code in the box. LBP1 and LBP2 did not have codes yet have rich experience. Either way, the offline component is rich and free to use without the code, and I believe the code is $10, but seeing as GameStop likes to sell used games for $5 less than retail, buying an "online pass" code on a used game will actually cost more than retail. Also kudos to Sony for making the PS Move optional on a lot of titles. I got my PS3 Slim shortly after the Move released, after the non-move 160Gb bundle had a second big price drop. I decided not to buy their Wiimote copycat technology, so I'm glad it remained optional in the LBP series. I'm really a Nintendo fanboy at heart but I changed my avatar to reflect my distaste for current gaming trends. If Sony follows a similar trend, it will be Wii-U and Ouya all the way for me and no new MS/Sony consoles. It will be good business for Nintendo, but as outsiders, we really don't know what the motivation is. It may even be conceivable that 3rd party developers have pressured MS/Sony into adopting stricter measures to combat used game sales. It is already well known that these devs already loathe GameStop. So do most retro gamers but for entirely different reasons. Nintendo has a track record of refusing to play ball in Sony/MS court, and also being a bit behind the times. In the case of Wii-U, I actually see this as a potentially positive thing. Nevermind that Nintendo was viewed as an evil tyrant back during the NES years, but they got slammed with antitrust lawsuits, and other companies quickly picked up the licensed games policies. The wild, wild west days with Atari and the like flooding the market with sub-par games were over. However, corporations are getting greedy again and the old methods of generating revenue are not good enough. How about game companies quit bankrupting themselves by focusing more on gameplay than graphics instead of spending fifty to a hunded million dollars per game simply to one-up each other. That crap works fine in the movie business where you can build a giant server farm rendering one HD movie frame to the hour. It simply doesn't fly in realtime game engines.

 

I'm already down for a OUYA. Just waiting on SONY to see if I am down for a PS4. Its a hell no for a xbone, I want to get a Wii u.

[Kulp]

I believe there is always ways around DRM. It's been cracked on DVDs and blu-rays why can't it be cracked on XBox1 and PS4? I'm sure someone will come up with a hardware patch that will allow us to play the phyiscal media of these games without the phone home aspect. Every other console has some kind of mod that allows CDRs and region unlocking. Why can't that happen here?

 

because modding your system gets you banned from the online networks.

auto-brick your system if they're online-all-the-time lol.

[Mord]

I think they actually said otherwise. Or at least that's what has been posted at the AVS forums.

 

I've seen them say a LOT over the last decade and then turn around and do the exact opposite. Hopefully for the people that are going to believe them this time around won't get stung.

 

I'll just eat my popcorn from the sidelines next gen.

[Master Phruby]

because modding your system gets you banned from the online networks.

auto-brick your system if they're online-all-the-time lol.

 

There are ways around that. Remember its just software running under Windows 8.

[Andromeda Stardust]

There are ways around that. Remember its just software running under Windows 8.

But x86 is a lot harder to overflow than the PowerPC variant the Wii/Wii-U uses.

[RevEng]

There are ways around that. Remember its just software running under Windows 8.

 

For sure, with time. But I have to say that I haven't seen anything announced yet that would make it worthwhile to buy into Microsoft or Sony's walled gardens, let alone break out of them.

 

After hardware headaches with this generation and the promise of increased DRM with the next, my plan is to stick with more open platforms from here on out.

[+Random Terrain]

I'm officially calling it: There's no such thing as an 8th generation for consoles. The WiiU aside, the next batch of machines from Playstation and Microsoft mark a sea change in the industry where all of our consumer freedoms have been stripped away and physical copies of games have become obsolete. We can really no longer consider these machines "consoles" in the historical sense. They're morphing into PC/cable box/DVR/streaming devices that, oh yeah, just happen to play games (with a GIANT asterisk!). I have no doubt that Sony will follow suit with some sort of pay-to-play infrastructure for used games. So my question is: Why bother buying a used game at all when you're going to most likely have to pay full price for it and you won't be able to play the game from the disc anyway? As far as your system is concerned, it only exists in a digital form anyway. You might as well just download it (just like they want you to!). The difference between consoles and PC gaming used to be the freedoms we could enjoy with our physical media and the lack of an internet registration/connection requirement. Now all that's been completely thrown out the window with this next generation. We used to be able to just hook the system up to a TV, plug the power cord in, pop in your new or used game, and you'd be ready to go. That's what a console is. These new machines coming later this year are very different animals. And I do NOT like what I see so far...

 

Be careful. Talk like that around here will get you attacked by the rabid hyenas, oops, I mean the 'positive people.'

[toptenmaterial]

Don't take it laying down. Buy a PS4 or One, hack the shit out of it and download every game for free. The more anti-consumer companies get, the more pirated A+ titles will be released. I feel zero remorse about saying this.

[Atari Dogs]

Don't people take games to friends to play? Or what about renting games on gamefly?

[Scotterpop]

It sure looks like Gamefly, Redbox, and whatever's left of Blockbuster are completely screwed this next gen. According to the few details that have been revealed regarding used games, the rental model simply won't work on the new consoles. And that's a real shame because that's another aspect of traditional video game culture that'll be swept away.