Aking Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Sorry to bother, but what are the advantages of Cross Assembling ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Speed, better keyboard, bigger monitor, and much more feature rich assemblers being available on modern PCs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+JAC! Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 ... and most important when talking about assembler: You don't lose the source when your program crashes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 And syntax colouring! Which is trifling enough, but it makes quite a difference for me! If anyone were thinking about following the cross-assembler route I absolutely recommend they use JAC!'s 'wudsn' add-in for Eclipse. That is pretty much the perfect IDE for atari assebmler work in my opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 It's not just modern PCs either, cross assembly has been around since "the olde days" with all manner of do-it-yourself solutions being put together by developers over the years. i've seen Amstrad PCW word processors, 386 DOS boxes and C128s assembling code for a target C64 (or in one case a C16 if memory serves) for example and there's other reports in interviews of Amstrad CPCs, Amigas, Atari STs, Sage IVs, mainframes, a second example of the target machine or indeed whatever else the programmers could hack together; the legendary Jet Set Willy for the Spectrum was assembled with a TRS-80 and some of Jeff Minter's later VIC 20 releases were i believe built on a C64. As soon as someone explained the basics of cross assembly to me i sat down and started thinking about how to bodge my own system together! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share Posted June 13, 2013 Yep - with you there TMR. Cross-assembly is the only real way to right even semi-serious programmes in atari assembler in my opinion. It CAN be done, even inside a Altirra virtual computer but it is TEDIOUS and prone to error. I believe 'Behind Jaggi Lines' was effectively cross-assembled as the late lamented LucasArts wrote a complete emulator for the atari to run on their mainframe and then cross assembled code for it from workstations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Yeah, i've spoken to people who've coded games in native assemblers that worked purely in RAM (in fact that's what i was using for a few years on the C64 myself, until being introduced to cross assembly and modifying the assembler to use a homebrewed link cable), others who have written games and demos using machine code monitors (i've done this as well now i think about it, although the projects were never finished/released) and even one guy who's pretty much completed a version of Cosmic Ark on the C64 with the VICE emulator's machine code monitor...! There's been some truly bizarre examples of homebrew cross assembly rigs over the years as well, including the rumours about SNES cracking groups using C64s to assemble code! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaPa Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 A lot of reasons for cross assembly already here and I agree with them. And I must say that if there would be no cross assembling I surely would not do any of my coding (see my signature). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Most people here probably do things in either one of two ways: 1) Use emulators. 2) Use native machines with speeded up I/O (some modern device connected into it). People do this because waiting for the I/O of the systems was the biggest thing that we cannot stand nowadays, hey, we didn't even like it back in the 80s. So I don't understand why people would then love the time and hassle it takes to compile something natively. But each to their own... it's your own decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted June 26, 2013 Author Share Posted June 26, 2013 Despite myself I am starting to feel like maybe you chaps were right all along and MADS is the best way to go... Humbling but true. It does seem to work VERY well inside wudsn and the source level debugging from Altirra is nice too!!! Could one of you tell me which is the command-line switch that displays the results of the assembly in wudsn's 'output' window? ATasm does this automatically, but I am sure MADS can be convinced to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 MADS outputs to the console window by default on my WUDSN set up. I doesn't display much, mind you: better off turning the source listing and symbol table on in compiler options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted June 27, 2013 Author Share Posted June 27, 2013 I'll give a closer look at those two flashjazzcat. On a different note - has anyone ever produced what might be called a 'header file' with all the atari memory locations labels defined to the proper hex addresses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenjennings Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 This page http://gury.atari8.info/effectus/rtl.htm has a link to an "equates" file (a common name for it): http://gury.atari8.info/effectus/docs/lib/equates.asm Not entirely comprehensive, but a starting point. Hunt around for equates files. I have an equates.m65 (on another computer, not here) for Mac/65 that has all the hardware registers in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted June 27, 2013 Author Share Posted June 27, 2013 I guess there is a opening for someone to do something good for the community by going through 'Mapping The Atari'... Someone with a LOT of patience!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danwinslow Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 I use ca65 to cross assemble, and it has a very nice atari equates file. I would think you could easily adapt it for use in MADS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+JAC! Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 (edited) Did it back then and posted it somewhere, now I put is officially on my web site: http://www.wudsn.com/productions/atari800/ide/SystemEquates.asm Edited June 27, 2013 by JAC! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted June 27, 2013 Author Share Posted June 27, 2013 VERY cool JAC! I have started plodding through 'Mapping the Atari'... A LONG job!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRV Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Mine: ;================================================================================ ; System equates, Atari XL + mads [NRV 2009] ;================================================================================ ;---------------------------------------- ; GTIA: ;---------------------------------------- M0PF = $D000 ; read only M1PF = $D001 ; read only M2PF = $D002 ; read only M3PF = $D003 ; read only P0PF = $D004 ; read only P1PF = $D005 ; read only P2PF = $D006 ; read only P3PF = $D007 ; read only M0PL = $D008 ; read only M1PL = $D009 ; read only M2PL = $D00A ; read only M3PL = $D00B ; read only P0PL = $D00C ; read only P1PL = $D00D ; read only P2PL = $D00E ; read only P3PL = $D00F ; read only TRIG0 = $D010 ; read only TRIG1 = $D011 ; read only TRIG2 = $D012 ; read only TRIG3 = $D013 ; read only PAL = $D014 ; read only HPOSP0 = $D000 ; write only HPOSP1 = $D001 ; write only HPOSP2 = $D002 ; write only HPOSP3 = $D003 ; write only HPOSM0 = $D004 ; write only HPOSM1 = $D005 ; write only HPOSM2 = $D006 ; write only HPOSM3 = $D007 ; write only SIZEP0 = $D008 ; write only SIZEP1 = $D009 ; write only SIZEP2 = $D00A ; write only SIZEP3 = $D00B ; write only SIZEM = $D00C ; write only GRAFP0 = $D00D ; write only GRAFP1 = $D00E ; write only GRAFP2 = $D00F ; write only GRAFP3 = $D010 ; write only GRAFM = $D011 ; write only COLPM0 = $D012 ; write only COLPM1 = $D013 ; write only COLPM2 = $D014 ; write only COLPM3 = $D015 ; write only COLPF0 = $D016 ; write only COLPF1 = $D017 ; write only COLPF2 = $D018 ; write only COLPF3 = $D019 ; write only COLBK = $D01A ; write only PRIOR = $D01B ; write only VDELAY = $D01C ; write only GRACTL = $D01D ; write only HITCLR = $D01E ; write only CONSOL = $D01F ; read and write ;---------------------------------------- ; POKEY: ;---------------------------------------- POT0 = $D200 ; read only POT1 = $D201 ; read only POT2 = $D202 ; read only POT3 = $D203 ; read only POT4 = $D204 ; read only POT5 = $D205 ; read only POT6 = $D206 ; read only POT7 = $D207 ; read only ALLPOT = $D208 ; read only KBCODE = $D209 ; read only RANDOM = $D20A ; read only SERIN = $D20D ; read only IRQST = $D20E ; read only SKSTAT = $D20F ; read only AUDF1 = $D200 ; write only AUDC1 = $D201 ; write only AUDF2 = $D202 ; write only AUDC2 = $D203 ; write only AUDF3 = $D204 ; write only AUDC3 = $D205 ; write only AUDF4 = $D206 ; write only AUDC4 = $D207 ; write only AUDCTL = $D208 ; write only STIMER = $D209 ; write only SKREST = $D20A ; write only POTGO = $D20B ; write only SEROUT = $D20D ; write only IRQEN = $D20E ; write only SKCTL = $D20F ; write only ;---------------------------------------- ; PIA: ;---------------------------------------- PORTA = $D300 ; read and write PORTB = $D301 ; read and write PACTL = $D302 ; read and write PBCTL = $D303 ; read and write ;---------------------------------------- ; ANTIC: ;---------------------------------------- VCOUNT = $D40B ; read only PENH = $D40C ; read only PENV = $D40D ; read only NMIST = $D40F ; read only DMACTL = $D400 ; write only CHACTL = $D401 ; write only DLISTL = $D402 ; write only DLISTH = $D403 ; write only HSCROL = $D404 ; write only VSCROL = $D405 ; write only PMBASE = $D407 ; write only CHBASE = $D409 ; write only WSYNC = $D40A ; write only NMIEN = $D40E ; write only NMIRES = $D40F ; write only ;---------------------------------------- ; Shadow registers: ;---------------------------------------- SDMCTL = 559 ; shadow of DMACTL GPRIOR = 623 ; shadow of PRIOR PCOLR0 = 704 ; shadow of COLPM0 COLOR0 = 708 ; shadow of COLPF0 RTCLOCK = 20 ATRACT = 77 CHBAS = 756 ; shadow of CHBASE CH = 764 CHACT = 755 SDLSTL = 560 ; display list address VDSLST = 512 ; DLI address PADDL0 = 624 ; 0-228 , shadow of POT0 PTRIG0 = 636 ; 0 = PRESSED , shadow of PTRG0 STICK0 = 632 ; 0000 = RLDU , shadow of PORTA STRIG0 = 644 ; 0 = PRESSED , shadow of TRIG0 COLDST = 580 ; non zero --> do a cold start when pressing the reset key ;---------------------------------------- ; VBI: ;---------------------------------------- XITVB_I = 58463 XITVB_D = 58466 VBI_I = 6 VBI_D = 7 NORMAL_VBI_I = 49378 NORMAL_VBI_D = 49802 SETVBV = 58460 VVBLKI = 546 VVBLKD = 548 XITVB = XITVB_D ;---------------------------------------- ; Handler vectors: ;---------------------------------------- NMIH_VECTOR = 65530 RESH_VECTOR = 65532 IRQH_VECTOR = 65534 ;---------------------------------------- ; I/O: ;---------------------------------------- CIOV = $E456 ; (58454) SIOV = $E459 ; (58457) ;---------------------------------------- ; Bit values: ;---------------------------------------- ; DMA values DV_DMA_ON = %00100000 DV_PM_ONE_LINE = %00010000 DV_PLAYERS_ON = %00001000 DV_MISSILES_ON = %00000100 DV_WIDE_PF = %00000011 DV_NORMAL_PF = %00000010 DV_NARROW_PF = %00000001 ; Display list values DL_DLI_MASK = %10000000 DL_LMS_MASK = %01000000 DL_VSCROLL_MASK = %00100000 DL_HSCROLL_MASK = %00010000 DL_JMP = 1 DL_JVB = 65 DL_BLANK_1 = 0 DL_BLANK_2 = 16 DL_BLANK_3 = 32 DL_BLANK_4 = 48 DL_BLANK_5 = 64 DL_BLANK_6 = 80 DL_BLANK_7 = 96 DL_BLANK_8 = 112 ; Antic graphic modes GM_CHAR_A2 = 2 ; 2 colors, 40x24, 960b, 40xline, 8 scanlines GM_CHAR_A6 = 6 ; 4 colors, 20x24, 480b, 40xline, 8 scanlines GM_CHAR_A7 = 7 ; 4 colors, 20x12, 240b, 20xline, 16 scanlines GM_CHAR_A4 = 4 ; 5 colors, 40x24, 960b, 40xline, 8 scanlines GM_CHAR_A5 = 5 ; 5 colors, 40x12, 480b, 40xline, 16 scanlines GM_CHAR_A3 = 3 ; 2 colors, 40x24, 760b, 40xline, 10 scanlines ; Basic graphic modes GM_CHAR_G0 = 2 ; 2 colors, 40x24, 960b, 40xline, 8 scanlines GM_CHAR_G1 = 6 ; 4 colors, 20x24, 480b, 40xline, 8 scanlines GM_CHAR_G2 = 7 ; 4 colors, 20x12, 240b, 20xline, 16 scanlines GM_CHAR_G12 = 4 ; 5 colors, 40x24, 960b, 40xline, 8 scanlines GM_CHAR_G13 = 5 ; 5 colors, 40x12, 480b, 40xline, 16 scanlines GM_PIXEL_G3 = 8 ; 4 colors, 40x24, 240b, 10xline, 8 scanline GM_PIXEL_G4 = 9 ; 2 colors, 80x48, 480b, 10xline, 4 scanline GM_PIXEL_G5 = 10 ; 4 colors, 80x48, 960b, 20xline, 4 scanline GM_PIXEL_G6 = 11 ; 2 colors, 160x96, 1920b, 20xline, 2 scanline GM_PIXEL_G7 = 13 ; 4 colors, 160x96, 3840b, 40xline, 2 scanline GM_PIXEL_G8 = 15 ; 2 colors, 320x192, 7680b, 40xline, 1 scanline GM_PIXEL_G14 = 12 ; 2 colors, 160x192, 3840b, 20xline, 1 scanline GM_PIXEL_G15 = 14 ; 4 colors, 160x192, 7680b, 40xline, 1 scanline GM_PIXEL_G9 = 15 ; 1 color, 80x192, 7680b, 40xline, 1 scanline GM_PIXEL_G10 = 15 ; 9 colors, 80x192, 7680b, 40xline, 1 scanline GM_PIXEL_G11 = 15 ; 16 colors, 80x192, 7680b, 40xline, 1 scanline ; Prior values PRV_PM_PRIORITY_1 = %00000001 PRV_PM_PRIORITY_2 = %00000010 PRV_PM_PRIORITY_3 = %00000100 PRV_PM_PRIORITY_4 = %00001000 PRV_FIFTH_PLAYER = %00010000 PRV_PM_OVERLAP = %00100000 PRV_GTIA_9 = %01000000 PRV_GTIA_10 = %10000000 PRV_GTIA_11 = %11000000 ; Consol values: CNV_START_MASK = %001 CNV_OPTION_MASK = %010 CNV_SELECT_MASK = %100 ; Stick values: STV_RIGHT_MASK = %1000 STV_LEFT_MASK = %0100 STV_DOWN_MASK = %0010 STV_UP_MASK = %0001 STICK_MASK_RIGHT = %1000 STICK_MASK_LEFT = %0100 STICK_MASK_DOWN = %0010 STICK_MASK_UP = %0001 STICK_VALUE_RIGHT = %0111 STICK_VALUE_LEFT = %1011 STICK_VALUE_DOWN = %1101 STICK_VALUE_UP = %1110 It only have the special chips (I don't use the OS that much, I should just erase the "Shadow registers", "VBI" and "I/O" areas ), but also the read/write versions of the same register and some section for "constants" (like the DL values and some bits values).. so you could say that there is still room for someone to write the "definitive" version of the equates file, starting with all the versions in this thread. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted June 29, 2013 Author Share Posted June 29, 2013 I am grinding through 'Mapping' and up to GTIA... It is not all that hard really, just a little tedious. I suppose there is an argument that you don't actually need EVERY label in the Atari, but I am rather obsessive about completeness! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted June 29, 2013 Author Share Posted June 29, 2013 (edited) And done! This is the entire list of memory labels and addresses compiled straight from 'Mapping The Atari'. I have incorporated the errata and addendum section in to the main file. The XL/XE appendix contains many duplications and is therefore a separate file. There may well be errors, although I have tried to catch the more obvious OCR artefacts. Also, in places there are duplications of the same label and I have commented out the second occurence. Most intriguingly there are also labels which have the same name as an assembler pseudo-op. at least in MADS. These have also been ';'ed. Unlike the excellent examples above I have not included any commentary or explanations, which I really should. Atari 8-Bit Memory Constants.asm Atari 8-Bit Memory Constants - XL-XE.asm Edited June 29, 2013 by morelenmir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xuel Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 This is the entire list of memory labels and addresses compiled straight from 'Mapping The Atari'. Well done! There are three control characters ($EF, $BB, $BF) at the start of the XL-XE file. Are those intentional? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted June 29, 2013 Author Share Posted June 29, 2013 (edited) I think they must be the unicode BOM added by my text editor. I shall sort that out! I have also commented out some duplications of labels and pseudo-ops and re-upped them above. ...and done! Edited June 29, 2013 by morelenmir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sack-c0s Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) another plus: you can use C/C++/Python to do the heavy lifting when it comes to generating data, converting from other map editor/graphics editor formats, compressing code and data, etc. The little experimental thing I'm playing with on the C64 at the moment (Although I intend to get it running on the A8 afterwards) uses a python script to compress a relative shedload of data (down to about 350kb), cross-compile some code that runs from RAM using ACME assembler, and then builds a raw easyflash-compatible cartridge image using another python script and then calls the VICE cartridge maker tool to make an emulator-compatible .crt file. it takes about a minute and a half to build the cartridge image from scratch, or about a second if you don't have to do the data generation. Edited July 5, 2013 by sack-c0s 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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