Hulsie Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 We've all heard of him, but how did he do it? How was a guy in the 80s able to port Atari 5200 games to A8 without some crazy expensive hardware? Does/did anybody know him or know how he achieved this? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 My local Atari dealer actually supplied cartridges to Glenn. I ran into him recently and he talked about the old days a bit. I tell ya though, the store owners and user group presidents were the worst pirates of all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 A simple case of dumping the cart then reverse-engineering somewhat into usable source code. Although the hardware interface for carts is way different it'd be a fairly simple job to build an interface for the purpose of simply reading the carts from 5200 with the 8-bit computer. Easy job to generate source code from binaries these days with the likes of IDA Pro and some freeware disassemblers, would have been a lot more hands-on and tedious in the 1980s. Although in saying that, porting a game from 5200 -> A8 would be a lot easier than the other way around, mainly a case of removing any self-destruct protection code, rework any hardware register references aside from Antic ones, rework any routines that read controllers and some changes needed for stuff like interrupt handling and low Ram accesses. Using modern day tools I've had games from such different systems as Commodore Plus4 working in a matter of hours, someone with decent 5200 and A8 knowledge could probably do the same using modern day tools. Probably multiply that by a factor of 5 or more if you're talking about using only what was available in the 80s though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 There was an article published in Analog on porting to the 5200, and *I think* a later article elsewhere on porting from 5200 to A8. The Analog article had lots of good info on the hardware and memory differences. I suspect when Claus sees this thread, he'll post. ANALOG JAN 84 p59 Buchholz, Claus, "Transporting programs to the 5200" -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Porting is sure a lot easier when you're dealing with your own program though. And of course, reverse-engineered source from a disassembly won't have the useful commentary unless you take that extra time to analyse and document it along the way. In doing bare bones binary conversions I found it easiest to just treat the thing in terms of looking after the input and output differences between the 2 systems. Of course you also have memory contention issues with the low-Ram OS variables but they're usually easy to sort. In a related sense - I developed some stuff on the ST way back then to assist with cracking AR: Dungeon. I was able to disassemble memory dumps and the like with a program that allowed switching from 2 seperate window halves.C Cross-platform in the day allowed more versatility - so long as the host system has sufficient memory or at least fast disk access it was another way to do things a lot quicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClausB Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Larry knows me well. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/130940-article-transporting-atari-computer-programs-to-the-5200/?do=findComment&comment=1580189 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 My local Atari dealer actually supplied cartridges to Glenn. I ran into him recently and he talked about the old days a bit. I tell ya though, the store owners and user group presidents were the worst pirates of all. Some of the worst pirates actually worked FOR Atari But yes, store owners and user groups were some of the biggest 'spreaders', before I worked for Maplin in the UK the very store I ended up managing used to have a Saturday piracy day where one of the most known pirates would sell disk copies and compilations inside the store. A leading Atari centre selling copies!! The staff were getting freebies so they did not care, when I started there I engineered the clean up from that because I was hired as Tech sales and you don't keep a sales job selling zero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Some of the worst pirates actually worked FOR Atari But yes, store owners and user groups were some of the biggest 'spreaders', before I worked for Maplin in the UK the very store I ended up managing used to have a Saturday piracy day where one of the most known pirates would sell disk copies and compilations inside the store. A leading Atari centre selling copies!! The staff were getting freebies so they did not care, when I started there I engineered the clean up from that because I was hired as Tech sales and you don't keep a sales job selling zero So it was you that killed Blackbeard then.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 So it was you that killed Blackbeard then.... No I just moved him along to a different port of call.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hulsie Posted June 10, 2013 Author Share Posted June 10, 2013 Fascinating stuff. I wish I was older and active in the community at that time. I was but a wee lad and didn't really have the social experience that seemed to come with the Atari computer scene. I just learned and acquired games from various family members who also had Ataris. Though I did go to computer shows and get disks from the MACE booth (Michigan Atari Computer Enthusiasts), who were sympathetic to my plight about being too little to have money to buy games, and they were amused that such a little kid was an Atari fan, so they would give me free shareware disks from time to time. I was always fascinated by "cracking groups" from the moment I learned what they were, and would begin to follow who was cracking what, even though I didn't know anybody or anything about it. I would think, oh yeah, this game came from Captain Wizard, he also cracked my Spy Vs. Spy II game, etc. Glenn was always particularly enigmatic because I just couldn't fathom the concept of a guy converting games to a new system, though it seems a lot more reasonable now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fres Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I wonder if Atari hired Glenn to do the Moon Patrol port. It has * and # still on the title screen. What the heck was that supposed to mean to me? I never had a 5200. I've never even seen one in person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 You have to love people like Glenn who converted games, ok from a technical POV it might not be the greatest achievement but they had to learn the maps and differences with scant details at the time. These guys go beyond the realm of hackers to me because they actually brought something NEW to the Atari8bit computer. Same with all the porters like Avery with the 2600 stuff (of course a massive 'shout out' to ALL the porters, your work is really appreciated), often less technically able versions were actually more fun than the Computer version and for the end user its all great. What is also fab is that we can play with these digitally as well as on real hardware, a point I'd love to get across to GR.8 software with their stern stance on no digital versions. Sure I could buy the cart but I want it to be able to play on an emulator just incase my age old hardware fails and sadly its almost impossible to find a person in the 8bit community who would aid in dumping the cart even if you showed them that you owned it. Anyway, all praise to Glenn and co... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 > a point I'd love to get across to GR.8 software with their stern stance on no digital versions. that's not true, games published by GR8 Software is available for free in file version. "Every game can be tested before purchase, because freeware file version is publish through internet." 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 What is also fab is that we can play with these digitally as well as on real hardware, a point I'd love to get across to GR.8 software with their stern stance on no digital versions. Sure I could buy the cart but I want it to be able to play on an emulator just incase my age old hardware fails and sadly its almost impossible to find a person in the 8bit community who would aid in dumping the cart even if you showed them that you owned it. All GR8 Software games are available for free download: http://gr8.atari.pl/...&id=5&Itemid=28 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 My local Atari dealer actually supplied cartridges to Glenn. I ran into him recently and he talked about the old days a bit. I tell ya though, the store owners and user group presidents were the worst pirates of all. So "Glenn the 5200 man" is still alive? Invite him to the forum, or take up a collection to purchase him a nice modern A8 system at no cost - so he'd want to. I'd contribute! I suspect others would, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Cafeman Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I suspect Bryan *is* Glenn the 5200 man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 What is also fab is that we can play with these digitally as well as on real hardware, a point I'd love to get across to GR.8 software with their stern stance on no digital versions. Sure I could buy the cart but I want it to be able to play on an emulator just incase my age old hardware fails and sadly its almost impossible to find a person in the 8bit community who would aid in dumping the cart even if you showed them that you owned it... oops, I guess you accidentally mixed up GR8 with Atlantis Games Group there 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricortes Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 We've all heard of him, but how did he do it? How was a guy in the 80s able to port Atari 5200 games to A8 without some crazy expensive hardware? Does/did anybody know him or know how he achieved this? Quoting myself from a dozen years ago in the usenet newsgroup. someone in here reported that was how "Glen the 5200 man" did all the ports. Just had a 130XE with a bunch of wires running around that worked as a 5200. I don't think it involved burning a new PAL, probably just bending out a few pins of the 74LS138 on the 130XE and the !CS pins on the LSI chip in question. I looked for the original post to find the name of the guy who actually saw the setup and couldn't find it. It probably occurred before there was extensive archiving. In hindsight, while it would be easy for someone with a good hardware background to do the conversion 130XE to 5200, it makes more sense if Glen had his 130XE wired to read the carts. Just a path of least resistance type thing. There had to be some way to read the 5200 carts because they are incompatible with the 8 bits. Adding the 5200 OS would be trivial of course, but there is no need to do it to accomplish the end result. I want to think it was in the Pacific North West but heck, 20-30 years later with most of us dead or retired so that doesn't mean a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fres Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 This is a pretty old thread that includes a couple of familiar "faces" ... https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!search/glenn$205200/comp.sys.atari.8bit/V0XwteCs-GQ/x-PlJoXuVosJ Yogi mentions that Glenn actually had to remove the chips from the 5200 carts. Guess I never thought about that much. It's surprising that there isn't more information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 All GR8 Software games are available for free download: http://gr8.atari.pl/...&id=5&Itemid=28 Oops, I meant the Tempst Xtreme folks...Sorry... GR.8 are lovely people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hulsie Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 So "Glenn the 5200 man" is still alive? Invite him to the forum, or take up a collection to purchase him a nice modern A8 system at no cost - so he'd want to. I'd contribute! I suspect others would, too. I'd definitely contribute as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjlazer Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) Glenn the 5200 man was a GOD back in the day to all us hard core Atari computer geeks. Edited June 17, 2013 by tjlazer 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Phruby Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Does anyone have list of games that Glen the 5200 man converted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fres Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 (edited) Best I've noticed: http://www.atarimania.com/list_games_atari-400-800-xl-xe-atari-glenn-the-5200-man_publisher_2281_8_G.html http://www.atarimania.com/list_games_atari-400-800-xl-xe-atari-5200-conversion_licence_1_8_G.html Of course not ALL of those were converted by Glenn. Some came later (especially the homesoft ones). Edited September 10, 2013 by Fres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMaddog Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 In all honestly, I'd rather play Glenn's ports on a A8 than the actual 5200 games...all because of the controllers. I wonder if Atari hired Glenn to do the Moon Patrol port. It has * and # still on the title screen. What the heck was that supposed to mean to me? I never had a 5200. I've never even seen one in person. * = START # = SELECT If you don't have a manual or overlay than no one will figure out how to start the game. Assuming that the * key would even still work... Again, see my first sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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