Is '125' truly the amount of officially released Intellivision game?

[+cmart604]

Some of you are in grave danger of being permanently banned for these blasphemous comments! The Original 125 is sacred and should be revered as such. The modern releases, licenced or not, are their own separate collection. Speaking out against this will result in the revocation of your Brotherhood membership.

[+SoulBuster]

the Original 125 IS sacred, but there are more than 125 official releases. William, how many Electronite releases are 'Official' releases?

Edited August 16, 2013 by SoulBuster

[Rev]

I think Elektronite (or any other OFFICIAL licenced games) can only be added to the official 125 list when I walk into Walmart, Toys R Us, Target, or Gamestop and seen it on the shelves.

 

But already, Elektronite games are for sale at Digital Press store..........

[Ignorama]

No, it doesnt matter where you can buy the game. The only question if its an official release or not is: Is it licensed? If yes, its official, doesnt matter if there is a "sacred" number or not. A release just means that people get the chance to buy the game, if its in a store or in the internet isnt important.

 

For myself: I dont see any difference between Elektronite and INTV Corp games. Both where after the big times and long after Mattel retired, but no one says Spiker is not official. I thought that I am a nitpicker, but saying it does not belong to the official releases because its released too late or not offered in a local store? No, even if thats the opinion of very popular collectors, thats not fair for the persons who worked to get the license

 

Edit

 

And so the 16th of August 2013 is the day when the Intellivision Universe was devided into two parts. The 125er and the 1xxer

Edited August 16, 2013 by Ignorama

[+intvsteve]

How about 'Next Generation' games? It would be interesting to know the volumes of some of those late INTV Corp. releases. Was it hundreds? Thousands? In the heyday it may have reached a million for games like Astrosmash.

 

Or are we going to start things like 'Microbrew' vs. 'Nanobrew' etc.?

Edited August 16, 2013 by intvsteve

[+intvsteve]

Not sure if already covered, but I suppose rather than concerning ourselves with 'Official' it would be better to use the tag 'Third Party'. After all, Imagic, Activision, et. al. never really got permission to make those games. There were lawsuits trying to prevent third party games back then and ostensibly one of the reasons for the EXEC in Intellivision was to try to strengthen IP and impose barriers to third parties. Nintendo was the first ones to really exercise tight control over getting permission to release for their console, right? (Sorry, my general console history knowledge outside Intellivision is a little shaky. )

 

Assuming that getting permission isn't the rubrik we use to determine if a game is 'official' then this becomes a discussion of whether a cartridge is 'Third Party' vs. Homebrew.

 

Any game released in cartridge format would be part of any complete list of titles. Perhaps availability is the metric to use. Releases with scarce availability are inherently 'homebrew.' If additional production runs of a game are made on demand, it's a Third Party game. The nifty 'reprogrammer' that was displayed in another thread illustrates how Elektronite can control production costs w.r.t. materials investment and distinguish itself as a third party. E.g. if they anticipated needing 250 D2KA carts, but then discovered 400 was really what they needed, and DKA wasn't moving as quickly, they can now rapidly transform unneeded lower velocity stock into higher-value product. It's quite ingenious - and an excellent, highly flexible model to gain efficiency in such a specialized market.

 

I think that having a good shorthand term to distinguish the early games from the modern ones is useful, if for no other purpose than to establish a context. It's unlikely you're going to find a copy of Minehunter at a garage sale or in a thrift shop. So when someone comes into the Intellivision scene without much knowledge of the 'lore', identifying the newer titles vs. the older ones would be useful. Nowadays it's rare that anyone coming into the Intellivision scene will be so uninformed about the platform as to confuse the newer and older games, but some form of distinction is still useful.

Edited August 16, 2013 by intvsteve

[+boxpressed]

The original 125 are not a planet anymore.

[LidLikesIntellivision]

Oh noez!!! Blasphemy from Rev!!!! Has he lost his mind by daring to question the 125 count?

 

I came up with my own list......does anyone else have the 'official 125' list handy?

 

I think one of the games on this list is a variation.....

 

To Rev and to everyone who doesnt believe in the 125 anymore.

 

I have great news for you!

 

1. I just got a new Intellivision game!

2. It is already available for order!

3. It is an ECS game! It is written in a more modern and advanced language than 'A'ssembly; it is in 'B'asic. (highlighted initial so you see easily how it is more advanced...)

4. It is a licensed game. It was lincesed by Mattel Electronics!

Here is what I got from Mattel Electronics itself (actually I had already posted it in the forum before):

 

"you can create programs for your own video games! Intellivision BASIC offers your special graphic tools that let you extract moving objects (tanks, robots, baseball players, airplanes, that

sort of thing) from Intellivision cartridges you already own...then

use them to make up your own games.

"

5. The game is called "Guessing the Number".

An exciting attempt to match a secret number with 8 tries. When you fail, you get a hint if the number is higher or lesser than your guess!

I give you an early hint: the number will never be 125.

 

Every non 125 believer can pm-me, so I can send my paypal e-mail.

Price is $666.

[Games For Your Intellivision]

INTV Steve,.....I think the reason for the Exec was to allow routines that could be called by any program in order to save space. A 4k program could get a lot more out of the game if it used the cheering Exec call instead of one inside the cartridge, for example.

 

I personally don't believe that it is 'licensing' that makes me 'not homebrew'......What makes me 'not homebrew' in my opinion, is the fact that my games are not limited.

 

These aren't one run games....demand determines how many are out there.

 

Secondly, all new materials is important in my opinion. "Homebrews' seem to use a lot of recycled stuff.

 

Thirdly, the thing that makes Elektronite games 'not homebrew' is that we are a real company. You can buy with a credit card. We pay our programmers. We pay taxes.

 

Some people may say that because I run my business out of a home, that that fact alone makes me 'homebrew'. Well, Amazon started in a house. So did Cisco, and Apple computers in a garage. Humble beginnings.

 

First Star Software doesn't think of me as 'homebrew' or they probably wouldn't be working with me.

[+cmart604]

For me the issue boils down to the Original 125 games are that were commercially for sale at the same time the Intellivision itself was available for sale. (ie 1979-1990). These were the games that I associate with my youth, the golden age of videogaming.

 

To me the modern releases will be a separate group of games for me to collect and play for my favourite system, simple as that. Whether they are licenced or not, homebrew or otherwise, it certainly doesn't diminish them at all in my eyes, in fact, the opposite holds true as these are clearly a labour of love and something that makes me smile when I realize I get to add great new games to play on my Intellivision(s) thirty plus years after I first started playing on this system. In fact, and I've said this before, I hope the list of modern releases, beginning with 4 Tris, one day exceeds the Original 125, for that will mean my favourite system will continue to thrive. My $0.02.

[+intvsteve]

I personally don't believe that it is 'licensing' that makes me 'not homebrew'......What makes me 'not homebrew' in my opinion, is the fact that my games are not limited.

These aren't one run games....demand determines how many are out there.

Secondly, all new materials is important in my opinion. "Homebrews' seem to use a lot of recycled stuff.

Thirdly, the thing that makes Elektronite games 'not homebrew' is that we are a real company. You can buy with a credit card. We pay our programmers. We pay taxes.

For me the issue boils down to the Original 125 games are that were commercially for sale at the same time the Intellivision itself was available for sale. (ie 1979-1990). These were the games that I associate with my youth, the golden age of videogaming.

To me the modern releases will be a separate group of games for me to collect and play for my favourite system, simple as that. Whether they are licenced or not, homebrew or otherwise, it certainly doesn't diminish them at all in my eyes, in fact, the opposite holds true as these are clearly a labour of love and something that makes me smile when I realize I get to add great new games to play on my Intellivision(s) thirty plus years after I first started playing on this system. In fact, and I've said this before, I hope the list of modern releases, beginning with 4 Tris, one day exceeds the Original 125, for that will mean my favourite system will continue to thrive. My $0.02.

Hehe yeah. As mentioned, it's clear to me (being not involved in things directly) that Elektronite's offerings fall most appropriately into the 'third party' category. Maybe comic book terminology maps well here? One could argue that 'Golden Age' was 1979-1983, 'Silver Age' would really be dominated by the INTV Corp releases, though to put dates on it, 1984-1989/1990. We don't really have 'Bronze Age' - though one could argue that the releases of previously developed games, even though recent on the calendar, could be judged as such, while new original titles could be considered 'modern age'.

 

As an aside, certainly this has been mentioned before, but while I was boring a coworker to tears about Intellivision the other day, I pointed out that this console has had releases in five different decades (based on copyright dates). Truly astonishing! We're talking at least one original title copyrighted here - not only production of of long-lost prototypes or unreleased games.

 

This is certainly a new golden age for the platform. Hope it can last!

[Britishcar]

I agree with cmart604. The best way to delineate "original" games released for a console would be to count those titles released while I could still go out and purchase a console NEW from a retail store. That is, if I could go to a store, buy an Intellivision II along with Frog Bog, Happy Trails and Night Stalker, then those games should be considered part of the "original" collection of games for the system. Games that came along later such as D2K Arcade could be categorized differently...as a game released after the system's discontinuation. So...it then doesn't matter if the game is "homebrew" for profit, not-for-profit, microbrew, nanobrew, licensed, not-licensed, etc. It's simply either an "original" game or a "post-discontinuation" way of looking at it. This could include variations such that any game modified and then re-released could either be original or post-discontinuation dependent on when it was released.

[Fushek]

INTV Steve,.....I think the reason for the Exec was to allow routines that could be called by any program in order to save space. A 4k program could get a lot more out of the game if it used the cheering Exec call instead of one inside the cartridge, for example.

 

I personally don't believe that it is 'licensing' that makes me 'not homebrew'......What makes me 'not homebrew' in my opinion, is the fact that my games are not limited.

 

These aren't one run games....demand determines how many are out there.

 

Secondly, all new materials is important in my opinion. "Homebrews' seem to use a lot of recycled stuff.

 

Thirdly, the thing that makes Elektronite games 'not homebrew' is that we are a real company. You can buy with a credit card. We pay our programmers. We pay taxes.

 

Some people may say that because I run my business out of a home, that that fact alone makes me 'homebrew'. Well, Amazon started in a house. So did Cisco, and Apple computers in a garage. Humble beginnings.

 

First Star Software doesn't think of me as 'homebrew' or they probably wouldn't be working with me.

 

Well ... when you google the definition of "homebrew" the dictionary gives the definition as: "An alcoholic beverage, especially beer, that is made at home."

 

Therefore, given that definition, we can definitively state that Elektronite's games are NOT homebrews .

 

I do agree that with professional programmers and a professional company, it's getting harder and harder to consider Elektronite's authorized games as "homebrews". Perhaps we need a new term to use for games that are professional developed after the life cycle of the system. Postbrews?

 

I don't care what it's called ... homebrew, postbrew or whatever. I'm thrilled, as we all are, that there is new life being pumped into the Intellivision.

[JasonlikesINTV]

Per William's unofficial wishes, I'm going to try to avoid calling Elektronite releases "homebrews". Instead, I will call them Elektrobrews.

[scalpel]

For me the issue boils down to the Original 125 games are that were commercially for sale at the same time the Intellivision itself was available for sale. (ie 1979-1990). These were the games that I associate with my youth, the golden age of videogaming.

 

I definitely agree with Cmart too.

[ghsqb]

Not to take anything away from anyone making games today, but for me the games from the original era will always be separate from the games produced today.

 

For all of the reasons already stated, but also due to one other important detail for me:

 

What was created back in the day was created with all the technological limitations of the day.

 

Today, with the benefit of technological advancements, we can fit the entire Intellivision library on one cartridge.

 

I think what Willie does is awesome.

He doesn't have Mattels money and an entire company of staff to get his games together, as Mattel did back in the day, but that just underscores why I classify today's games differently.

[Games For Your Intellivision]

Sorry to mention this .......Not to offend anyone, but my name is spelled 'Willy' not 'Willie' However, I prefer to be called William by people who don't know me personally.

 

Just to clear up a misconception......

 

D2K Arcade, DK Arcade, and Minehunter do not benefit from any technological enhancements of today. All of those games could have been done 'in the day'.

 

D2K Arcade is a fairly big game, but comparable to ECS Baseball in Rom size. A JLP cart can hold about 160k with bankswitching, which is a fair bit, but it certainly can not hold a complete library.

 

Christmas Carol is a big game, that probably would not have been published 'in the day' but could have been by dropping some cut scenes. I can't speak for the author, but I do believe that he 'just wrote the game' and didn't worry about the size of his code. I am sure that he could have cut it down to a publishable size 'in the day'.

 

Match 5, although being a small game, uses Flash Ram which allows it to store high scores permanently on the cartridge.

 

JLP has a lot of ram, flash ram and storage that allow some fantastic potential for new games, but so far, it hasn't been used too much.

 

Joe can correct me if I have many any errors.

[JasonlikesINTV]

Thanks for the technical info, William. Sounds like it's time for a new game that can really break open the potential of the new JLP cart. Go big or go home Seriously, though, it's kind of cool that we have yet to really hit the limits of our favorite console :-) Blue skies ahead...

Edited August 21, 2013 by JasonlikesINTV

[Games For Your Intellivision]

Technical specs of JLP

 

 

JLP is the 'Caddilac' of Intellivision cartridges. For cost reasons, there are 3 different sizes.

 

•"Small." Games up to 28K 16-bit words, or 36K 12-bit words.

 

(There isn't a separate 10-bit mode, but 12-bit mode will improve the capacity for classic 10-bit games.)

 

RAM up to 8K bytes or 4K words. Large enough for all Mattel, Activision, Imagic, INTV and all other pre-homebrew releases.

Also large enough for most homebrews except Christmas Carol.

 

•"Medium." Games up to 60K 16-bit words, or 80K 12-bit words. RAM up to 16K bytes or 8K words.

 

•"Large." Games up to 124K 16-bit words or 164K 12-bit words. RAM up to 16K bytes or 8K words.

 

 

So, basically, developers are free to do a game as big as they want and just concentrate on making a great game, not fitting it to a specific size.

 

- All versions offer flash storage.

- Any flash not used by the game ROM image is available for game persistent storage.

- Flash rows are 192 bytes (96 16-bit words) long.

- Erase sectors are 8 rows long (1536 bytes / 768 words).

- A hardware mechanism exists for a game to ask the board how much flash is available.

- For games larger than 42K words, JLP uses ECS-style bankswitching by default.

 

All versions have the following features:

 

•Supports standard Mattel style bankswitching on 4K pages.

 

•Address decode on 4K page boundaries by default, except for special 2K page at $4800 - $4FFF.

 

•For new titles, offers hardware accelerated multiply, divide, CRC and random number generation.

 

 

 

As you can see, the large amount of storage, flash ram to save information, and RAM can really allow for some COOL stuff to be done. Like Defender of the Crown.

[+cmart604]

Technical specs of JLP

 

]As you can see, the large amount of storage, flash ram to save information, and RAM can really allow for some COOL stuff to be done. Like Defender of the Crown.

 

This is the part my brain heard.

[DZ-Jay]

Sorry to mention this .......Not to offend anyone, but my name is spelled 'Willy' not 'Willie' However, I prefer to be called William by people who don't know me personally.

 

Just to clear up a misconception......

 

D2K Arcade, DK Arcade, and Minehunter do not benefit from any technological enhancements of today. All of those games could have been done 'in the day'.

 

D2K Arcade is a fairly big game, but comparable to ECS Baseball in Rom size. A JLP cart can hold about 160k with bankswitching, which is a fair bit, but it certainly can not hold a complete library.

 

Christmas Carol is a big game, that probably would not have been published 'in the day' but could have been by dropping some cut scenes. I can't speak for the author, but I do believe that he 'just wrote the game' and didn't worry about the size of his code. I am sure that he could have cut it down to a publishable size 'in the day'.

 

Match 5, although being a small game, uses Flash Ram which allows it to store high scores permanently on the cartridge.

 

JLP has a lot of ram, flash ram and storage that allow some fantastic potential for new games, but so far, it hasn't been used too much.

 

Joe can correct me if I have many any errors.

 

I believe that "technological advancements" means more than new hardware features, it includes the whole human experience influenced by a culture raised with video games as a staple, and the accumulated knowledge that this brings--including technical expertise.

 

D2K and DK arcade were made with a significant amount of insight that came not only from 30 years of research into the platform, but from an in-depth analysis of the original Donkey Kong ROM.

 

Christmas Carol had a similar advantage. There was no source ROM analysis, but there was significant insight taken from the accumulated cultural knowledge of game design and arcade game concepts that has accrued for 30 years now.

 

As William said, it is a rather large game, but I'm sure I would have been able to make it fit in a Mattel ROM cartridge size, had I the need to do so. I had no such need, so I did not bother.

 

However, this is nothing but a fun exercise: could have, should have, would have... But the fact is that NONE of these games were made back then, so there's no point in suggesting they could have, or arguing the point--they are precisely the product of modern times.

 

So, they are not part of the set of games that made our childhood great.

 

In the end, what does it matter? Who cares?

 

They are still great games in themselves. And to William, Carl, Joe, I, and the other developers and producers out there, it is even better than that: it is our contribution to keeping that childhood dream alive.

 

Cheers.

dZ.

 

[Ignorama]

So, they are not part of the set of games that made our childhood great.

 

Do it like me and they belong to the set of your childhood: Never grow up

 

But its not a question of personal matters in my opinion. I have absolutely no problem if someone wants to keep his 125, but if someone asks how many titles were releasey officially and the answer is 125 its wrong. At the moment Elektronite got the license you have to add the games to the official releases. If you want to make a difference between official and original its fine, also if I dont share this opinion. But if the discussion comes to official releaes Hover Bovver and Boulder Dash are part of the 1xx games.

I think Paddle Party, Defender of the Crown, Space War and Kroz also run under the license, so we have at least 131 releases.

 

But one thing I want to mention too: Even if I count future Elektronite Releases to a full set, I dont think they are more important than future homebrew releases. My it seems that I like Elektronite more than LTO, Groovy INTV Productions, Revs Funbag Inc or Intelligentvision, but thats wrong. I like every good game for the Intellivision and it doesnt matter if its with a license or not.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Ignorama

[Games For Your Intellivision]

I think you are reading too much into my response dZ. Of course, people have more practice with the platform, after such a long time.

 

I would suggest that Carl is such a great Intellivision programmer, however, because of his experience hacking the entire system to create the world's first emulator. We kept chipping away at the hardware and software until we found out everything there was to find out about the thing.

 

Regardless of this skill, the games I mentioned were possible. I was refuting that there are any 'tricks' or technology that didn't exist in the day being used. The games aren't 'much bigger than they ever could have been in the day' and they aren't using technology that didn't exist in the day.

 

On that point, I stand by my comments.

 

Match 5 DOES use technology that wasn't around 'in the day', and I think that when more games start using JLP's features, we are going to see some fantastic stuff!

[Ignorama]

Sorry for the off topic, but what is the relationship of Carl and William? I wonder about that since I am member of this community.

[JasonlikesINTV]

I think it's like running the 4 min mile. We had the "hardware" back in the day, but modern running theory helped us break the barrier. Either that, or we've unknowingly been genetically breeding a subrace of fast running super humans