GroovyBee Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 The thing that bugged me was it seemed to me that Groovy Bee was boasting about the free ROM images that he may someday release,I guess you missed all the games, wips, demos, source code and tools I've already released for free on several platforms then. I'm not the least bit interested in selling game ROMs. What other people do with ROM images is up to them. but then he turned around and said that these ROM images would only work on his hardware.If I use features available on my cart designs then that is entirely up to me isn't it? I have absolutely no interest in adapting my games to run on non compatible hardware. There is a reason they are called hardware accelerated features . If I have to buy new hardware to use something, it doesn't seem free to me.Nobody is forcing you to buy anything . If you don't want to buy a Hive, then don't. The decision to purchase something (or not) is entirely yours. However, subsequently complaining that Bee3/Hive compatible software won't run on your legacy or non compatible hardware is just like complaining that DRMed LTO Flash! games won't work on your Intellicart . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freewheel Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I'm a big fan of "free ROM with purchase of CIB game" or reasonably priced (< or = $15) for ROM only purchase. Same. I'm surprised this isn't the norm, in this community. Correct me if I'm completely out to lunch here, but I'd imagine the net profit to a developer on a sold cart is in the $5-10 range? Selling ROMs for a similar price seems reasonable. I guess I don't quite understand the fear of mass piracy here. I'll admit that I've never done it before, but is there something especially tricky with dumping Intellivision carts? I know that for the 2600, anyone can do it with minimal skill and $70 spent on a Harmony cart. If someone really wanted to distribute pirated 2600 homebrew, it would cost not much more than buying a single legit release. I'd think the same applies to INTV games, but maybe I'm missing something. I dunno, I just don't see it being a technical/financial hurdle if we're not already seeing it. It seems more likely that people in this community respect the developers and want to encourage more great homebrew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psquare75 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 So I was initally excited because my email had blown up with so many pings because of replies to this thread.Yay! I said to myself, the cart must be almost done. Then I see this pissing contest. Sigh. Carry on.. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntellivisionDude Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Since i didn't already say it, i am interested. I should have the money saved up by the time it's released. Hopefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freewheel Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Yeah, I've mentioned this kind of thing on the podcast - I really want some way to play all my games in emulation because that seems pretty future-proof. I understand the concerns with rights-holders and such, and I'm sure I'll support the LTO-specific ROM sales should that come about. But I think I'm crazy enough to want to play these games in 10 or 20 years. I hope that emulation and/or future hardware will be able to support games I'm purchasing now. You're not the only one. I find it more than a little sad to think of a generation of kids growing up right now, that may well never be able to play the games of their childhood in a couple of decades. It's astounding how many games today require online access to servers that won't last 5 years. I've been blessed in that literally every videogame released throughout my formative years is easily available and playable. And likely will be, forever. I highly doubt I'd still be into these games, 30 years later, if this wasn't the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfy62 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Perhaps you are correct, maybe the DRM term never should of been used or applied for LTO. Thats the point I was trying to make. How many people plan on purchasing ROMS anyway? I only bought the DK roms to help out Carl. I dont normally buy roms and have no plans on buying roms. If a new intv game comes out as a rom exclusive, ill skip it. But thats just me. Me as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveRider1970 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Hi, if random then 1 for me please. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed Solomon Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 For the record because I don't know where all this drama suddenly came from,but I don't have anything against the other INTV flash carts per se, I just think GroovyBee's cart is the one that appears to be designed in a way that fits my needs the most. I think its fantastic that theres actually multiple flash carts happening for the intellivision. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catsfolly Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 For the record because I don't know where all this drama suddenly came from,but I don't have anything against the other INTV flash carts per se, I just think GroovyBee's cart is the one that appears to be designed in a way that fits my needs the most. I think its fantastic that theres actually multiple flash carts happening for the intellivision. You are right that competition is good - it keeps everyone on their toes and keeps prices down. I am glad there are multiple flash cards coming for the Intellivision. I didn't mean to stir up controversy - I guess people have different ideas about what "free" means. People get "free" phones, then pay hundreds of dollars for them in fees over two years. People get "free" IOS games, and then gradually pay a lot of money for "upgrades" and "options". Groovy will give away free rom images. We can't play them without his board, but that's because they are accelerated games. Got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed Solomon Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I didn't mean to stir up controversy - I guess people have different ideas about what "free" means. We're not all RMS. People get "free" phones, then pay hundreds of dollars for them in fees over two years. People get "free" IOS games, and then gradually pay a lot of money for "upgrades" and "options". Groovy will give away free rom images. We can't play them without his board, but that's because they are accelerated games. Got it. Well the idea that he's giving away a "free" game with the flash cart never entered into my mind as important or particularly relevant to my desire to purchase it. It is also too soon to say that we can't play them without his board. We don't know that it won't work with emulators. Maybe it will. Not really a big deal. It's a bonus feature. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freewheel Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I think its fantastic that theres actually multiple flash carts happening for the intellivision. Same here. Without further derailing or squatting on this thread, it would be nice if we could have a comparison chart for them. I'll probably end up needing one of each, but it would be nice to have the differences spelled out as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Spear Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Features and price... Who can make a decent comparison chart between LTO Flash and the Hive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
river9999uk Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Mr Bee please put me down for one in the lottery ! Thank you and long live the hive ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 (edited) You are right that competition is good - it keeps everyone on their toes and keeps prices down. I am glad there are multiple flash cards coming for the Intellivision. I didn't mean to stir up controversy - I guess people have different ideas about what "free" means. People get "free" phones, then pay hundreds of dollars for them in fees over two years. People get "free" IOS games, and then gradually pay a lot of money for "upgrades" and "options". Groovy will give away free rom images. We can't play them without his board, but that's because they are accelerated games. Got it. You don't mean to stir up controversy, yet you continue harping on a point that is not particularly germane to this thread nor to the other announcements made by GroovyBee. GroovyBee announces a new flash-cart GroovyBee mentions it will not have DRM GroovyBee mentions it will have additional on-board features that programmers can take advantage of GroovyBee announces the price to be $75 GroovyBee mentions that a "deluxe" model will include a Micro-SD card so that you get the entire thing in one package GroovyBee mentions, in passing, oh and by the way, I'll seed that Micro-SD card with some free ROMs Catsfolly goes bat-shit over free ROMs that require hardware acceleration and will not work on other flash-carts Got it. Edited October 12, 2014 by DZ-Jay 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfy62 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I do think it is great that GroovyBee is making this so that game programmers can make better and more advanced games for the system. My one and very legitimate question is will the games that we previously paid for and pre-ordered be released in cartridge form or only as a ROM on the multicart? If I am not getting the cartridges and I am already in for 2 of each games and out $160. I am thinking I should have 2 of these sent to me. I believe that sounds fair. My concern is only from a players standpoint not a programmers, all the technical conversation here is beyond me. Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 My one and very legitimate question is will the games that we previously paid for and pre-ordered be released in cartridge form or only as a ROM on the multicart? Dude, give up on the LSD, either that or there is something funky in your water. Please point out in this thread or the game development threads, where I've said that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfy62 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 You are free to insult me if you like, I was just asking a question. Maybe you could PM me on what your intentions are. Thank you. Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 You are free to insult me if you like, I was just asking a question. Maybe you could PM me on what your intentions are. I'll make it super simple for you. You PM me with a paypal address and I'll refund your money today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfy62 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 See that answers my question right there! You are dishonest and used the money that you collected upfront for Mars Minis and Rocketeer, somewhere close to to $12,000 dollars to fund your project. As well, you can keep my money it is dirty now. I collect and play for fun and everyone else I have dealt with over the years have been awesome with communication and straightforward on collecting for, trading for and exchanging anything. I will purchase an LTO flash, it comes with a cool box! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 See that answers my question right there! Yep! Sure does! If you aren't happy waiting for my games you can have a refund, other people have. It seems to me, that you like to bitch and moan about me taking your money whilst not actually asking for a refund . Thats pretty odd if you ask me. I've stated numerous times that people can have refunds. You are dishonest and used the money that you collected upfront for Mars Minis and Rocketeer, somewhere close to to $12,000 dollars to fund your project. I see you like to make up numbers . Next you'll be claiming that the games have been cancelled Whoops! You already did that . As well, you can keep my money it is dirty now. Nope! Not interested in your money. I'll refund it to the paypal address I have on file for you, unless you tell me otherwise. I will purchase an LTO flash, it comes with a cool box! Good for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntellivisionDude Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I don't have the money right this very second, but i want a copy of all your games when released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 I don't have the money right this very second, but i want a copy of all your games when released. No worries! I'll keep a couple in reserve just for you! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg2600 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Most likely not, since the plan for the LTO Flash Cart is to assign Elektronite roms to the serial number of the LTO Flash cart (other ROMs are not bound by this unless other software developers decide to utilize this method). Therefore the ROMs will only work on THAT LTO FLASH MULTICART. It helps prevent mass distribution of ROMs without permission. This is important when games are under license with a software company. It would allow the software company to allow a software designer to offer their copyrighted software to exist as a digital download. Otherwise it would not be able to be legally distributed. This offers the consumer an inexpensive way to obtain the right to play a game. This is a HORRIBLE idea. I've yet to see ANY mass distribution of Elektronite roms under the current system. I use INTV emulators on many devices, I should be allowed to use the rom I purchase on those. I cannot fault Groovy Bee for developing a game that works on hardware he also developed. It's not quite the same thing as the SGM for CV, 7800XM for 7800, or Harmony Encore for 2600. Those carts provide more oomph without being "proprietary." This sounds more like the MSU1 chip which is part of the SD2SNES. I also think you limit your sales by not making the game more universally compatible. Has there been any updates lately (I tried weeding through the muck) on this? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 Has there been any updates lately (I tried weeding through the muck) on this? Yep! The latest news is here http://atariage.com/forums/topic/214212-its-alive/?p=3089313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mylok Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I would be happy to purchase a preproduction cart. I have Sears, Intellivision 1 and 2, Sys III and Super Pro consoles to test on. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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