bB with native 64k cart support - 1.1d.reveng

[Sprybug]

Hey guys, back to bring this topic back from the dead. I do have one question. I'm experimenting with all Batari options available to me to be able to do everything I want with my game. Will the 64K kernel work with the SuperChip? Also does Melody emulate the Superchip, so when the game goes into production, we'll be able to use Melody boards for it? My main reason for doing DPC+ was to achieve a higher playfield resolution and multiple enemies on the screen at one time. I know I can achieve the playfield resolution I want with the Superchip. As for multiple enemies, that's something I'd have to look into outside of DPC+. Just exploring all my options here. In order to do everything I want, I NEED 64K, and so far I'm not seeing any progress with DPC+ to achieve it. I've been on hold on my game waiting to see if anyone is even bothering to look into it, and I see no signs of it. So, if anyone could answer my questions that I had in the beginning of this reply, it'd be greatly appreciated!

 

EDIT

 

Okay, after looking at previous posts, even the original, I basically answered my questions.

YES, it does support Superchip at 64K and

YES, Melody emulates it.

 

For anyone with the same questions, there are your answers.

This is good news.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Sprybug

[+Gemintronic]

I've been talking with Albert and CPUWIZ off and on over the years about making 256k SC carts available for developers. It's sort of a chicken -> egg scenario. Perhaps if both of us expressed interest in huge carts for our games there's be more traction. Put RevEngs multi kernel framework to good use ~_^

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/221100-bb-256k-128k-64k-32k-multikernel-frameworks/

[+SpiceWare]

In order to do everything I want, I NEED 64K, and so far I'm not seeing any progress with DPC+ to achieve it.

We are working on a larger Melody board (at least 64K).

 

..Al

We need more info on the larger board, but once we have it we're going to look into updating CDF to support it. I'm sure we could do the same for DPC+.

[+Gemintronic]

We need more info on the larger board, but once we have it we're going to look into updating CDF to support it. I'm sure we could do the same for DPC+.

 

I'd like to think C development on large ROM DPC+ boards is the future. Hopefully there's enough momentum to get there

[+SpiceWare]

I'd like to think C development on large ROM DPC+ boards is the future. Hopefully there's enough momentum to get there

Actually, I'm in the planning stages for the Spice C * framework which will use CDF instead of DPC+. CDF was designed for C development, and has better features than DPC+. DPC+ was designed for 6507 development, C support was just an afterthought so isn't implemented as well as in CDF.

 

When you create a new project in Spice C you'll specify which kernel to use, at which point it'll create files for you to edit:

• game logic (in C)
• graphic data
• sound effect data
• etc.

It'll also have prebuilt routines for handling as many sprites as you need, defined like this as in Draconian:

 

#define MAX_SPRITES 159
#define MAX_MISSILES 50
#define MAX_STARS 128

---

Of course more sprites = more overhead, so there is a limit to how many can be handled.

 

For kernel options I plan to start out with 3:

• multiplexed sprites & missiles, with the playfield (like Frantic & Timmy)
• multiplexed sprites, missiles & ball, without playfield (like Draconian)
• 128 pixel bitmap.

---

Each kernel option will have prewritten functions, such as software based collision detection for sprites/missiles/ball kernels, line drawing support for the bitmap kernel, etc.

 

Besides those I'll have a couple score display options. Like batari BASIC, new kernels can be added.

 

* pronounced Spicey of course! I think the logo will be stylized something like this

[flickertail]

This sounds super awesome and I want to use it!!!

[Yosikuma]

I just became aware of Spice C -- I am definitely excited to see where this goes, and can't wait to use it!

[Keatah]

Just might make me get off my fat ass and learn some up-to-date programming!

[+SpiceWare]

This sounds super awesome and I want to use it!!!

I just became aware of Spice C -- I am definitely excited to see where this goes, and can't wait to use it!

Just might make me get off my fat ass and learn some up-to-date programming!

The Beginnings of Spice C

[+iesposta]

Bug: ghost pixels?

I never reported this as a bug as only a small percent of my many systems do this -- and I think it is the TIA version along with approaching the maximum cycles per frame.

It is always the 9th playfield pixel column from the left (not counting PF0's 4 pixels).

What concerns me is that my DPC+ Kernel game was just played on Twitch and YouTube and that system showed "ghost playfield pixels", and then this game on a different system also shows "ghost pixels"

It should skip to 1min 17sec:

https://youtu.be/pTQ9sG_4V2I?t=1m17s

Having programmed using "batari Basic" DPC+ Kernel, my game also has what I call "ghost playfield pixels", also in the same place (top left about 1/4 screen over to about halfway down). Some Atari TIA display/sound chips do this, while others do not. I have around 20 ways to play real carts from '77 Atari's to the Jr. model, to system changers, and clones, and I saw these on 3.
The Exp. Module 1 for Colecovision to play 2600 games does this, and an old, original gray TIA chip did this. Conversely newer TIA chips like in the 7800 system (that plays 2600 games also) I saw this:

What concerns me is that my DPC+ Kernel game was just played on Twitch and YouTube and that system showed "ghost playfield pixels", and then this game on a different system also shows "ghost pixels".
It should skip to the glitch. Choosing higher resolutions shows the glitch better:

Edited June 3, 2018 by iesposta

[+RevEng]

There's a new bB release at 8bitdev.org

• I worked with iesposta and fixed the bB DPC+ kernel "ghost pixel" that shows up with some TIA revs.
• Symbol and list file extensions were modified so they work better with stella debugging, thanks to ZackAttack and RT.
• I took the opportunity to swich the provided dasm with one that doesn't break when reading Unix style line-endings on Windows.
• I added a proper error-out if you use . in label names.
• I also updated bbfilter so it filters more valid symbol names, hopefully leaving you with a more accurate "Unresolved Symbol List", when you happen to typo the name of one of your variables or labels.

Enjoy!

[goofyblocks]

sed does not run on my computer can i get help!!!!!!!!!!

Edited July 16, 2018 by goofyblocks

[+RevEng]

My newer releases of bB don't have a real sed.exe (assuming you're running Windows) nor do they need one - it's been replaced by bbfilter.

[Jron]

It's a false positive. My bB binaries are built on a Linux system and they never see a Windows system until the end-user receives them. There's no virus capable of crossing over from Linux to Windows, or visa versa.

 

There's more detail about this false-positive here.

 

Unfortunately the AV companies don't seem to care about collateral damage to open source projects, and websites.

 

[edit - try again now. I've just recompiled the binaries with a different level of compiler optimization, basically shuffling the bytes around, and VirusTotal shows Avast and all but 1 AV program accepting it now. Stupid AV companies are wasting everybody's time, and ruining reputations.]

 

Hello RevEng,

Is this the same false positive you are talking about?

 

[+Gemintronic]

By all the creatures great and small! I always suspected 2600bas.exe and Stella were eating up my creativity and free time. Thank gawd Avira finally confirmed this!

 

NOTE: Not picking on you Jron. Just annoyed at Avira and other security products misdiagnosing indie dev tools. Even more when they misdiagnose technicians repair tools intentionally.

[Jron]

By all the creatures great and small! I always suspected 2600bas.exe and Stella were eating up my creativity and free time. Thank gawd Avira finally confirmed this!

 

NOTE: Not picking on you Jron. Just annoyed at Avira and other security products misdiagnosing indie dev tools. Even more when they misdiagnose technicians repair tools intentionally.

 

I didn't even get to go past a hello world type game before being afflicted

 

I'm guessing no need to worry? I downloaded everything from links in this forum.

[+RevEng]

Hello RevEng,

Is this the same false positive you are talking about?

 

Sure. The bB code at 8bitdev.org hasn't ever touched a Windows machine, as it's cross-compiled on my Linux laptop, and 8bitdev.org itself runs Linux. There's no real vector here for any of my stuff to pick up a Windows virus.

 

[insert my usual rant about anti-virus companies here.]

 

Interestingly, Virustotal says bB at 8bitdev.org is clean according to several vendors, including Avira.

[Impaler_26]

 

 

Hello RevEng,

Is this the same false positive you are talking about?

 

 

 

I have the same problem with Avira.

[freshbrood]

Using VBB, I'm getting the same error regarding misplaced "end" commands that aren't actually misplaced. It seems to happen once I get to a certain file size. I don't recall the version of VBB I'm using, will update this to include it when I get home.

[Lillapojkenpåön]

warning(5785): missing matching end to " asm"

warning(): Found 136 commands that use end, and 135 "end" commands.

That one? So it's a bug, I've tried to solve it many times, VisualbB_Build_568_2017y_07m_23d_2157t

I encountered something else weird yesterday, my smartbranching broke and I got a label mismatch on ALOTTTT of labels, but all I had to do was remove a bunch of commented out stuff and it worked again? But considering how many labels I have and how much commented out stuff I had, no one else will probably ever encounter this.

[+RevEng]

Sounds like a bblint issue. vbb calls it, if it's present, to help with the syntax check.

 

If you're using the bblint program that was provided with vbb, try replacing it with the latest.

 

If it's still causing an issue, submit an issue in the bblint thread, and include the source code is triggering the problem.

 

Alternatively, you can rename/remove the bblint executable, which will skip the lint check.

[Trip2018]

I'm working on a 2600 music tracker for bb and was wondering if I could strip down the compiler to just the standard kernel (and it's required files) and have it built into the software.

[Lillapojkenpåön]

I'm working on a 2600 music tracker for bb and was wondering if I could strip down the compiler to just the standard kernel (and it's required files) and have it built into the software.

 

I don't think anybody picked up on this very generous offer, maybe you will be the one

[+Gemintronic]

I'm working on a 2600 music tracker for bb and was wondering if I could strip down the compiler to just the standard kernel (and it's required files) and have it built into the software.

 

I think people have been known to edit the standard asm include files in bB. I think a 2k game called Gate Racer removed some features to keep the size down. Just make sure the modified versions are in the same folder as your project.

 

It may be easier to just include it as inline assembly.

http://www.randomterrain.com/atari-2600-memories-batari-basic-commands.html#includesfile

Edited November 14, 2018 by Gemintronic

[+iesposta]

I'm working on a 2600 music tracker for bb and was wondering if I could strip down the compiler to just the standard kernel (and it's required files) and have it built into the software.

I am no expert with how bB compiles basic into assembly, but looking in its files there are 11 kernels. I dont know if it chooses one out of the functions used, or if it uses more than one of those 11.

 

bB is nothing but programs that turn your plain basic text file source code into assembly.

 

The Visual bB editor is Windows .net only and has stand alone programs that help you create sprites or titlescreens or playfields or music and sound. Those tools put their code into your plain text source code.

The music and sound part of Visual bB write an entire program with your data, one for the standard bB and a different one for bB DPC+.

 

jEdit is a Java editor that can color bB code like Visual bB does.

It doesnt have any additions like sprite creation.

 

Not sure what you are asking for.

As far as stripped down, I know if your program doesnt use scrolling and you know what that looks like in assembly, you can free around 200 bytes in the first bank.